H. MAAKA.]

23

I.—3b.

Mr. Hoiking: That is with men, women, and children, I take it. The Chairman : The point is whether the petitioners only claim for those who were in occupation of the land that was sold, or do they claim for every one who might possibly lodge a future claim 1 Mr. Hashing: I understand that this claim is on behalf of everybody who could possibly be said to be interested on behalf of Ngaitahu—l mean, their present representatives. So far as I am aware it is not intended that there should be any reservation whatever; this claim, as now put forward, is put forward on behalf of all. Ho that any one who hereafter says he has got no land cannot be heard. That, I understand, is the position which the Natives take up. The Chairman: The other purchases, in the other parts of the Island, are not in the same position : the Natives there sold their land and got properly paid? Mr. //asking: Yes. 1 think I mentioned that the only two purchases in respect of which trouble has never baen completely satisfied are the Ngaitahu purchase and the Otakou purchase. The Chairman: Do you make the petition much wider than it at first appears to be to the Committee, by including practically everybody who could make a claim? Mr. Hosking: I think the petition is on behalf of the Ngaitahu and Ngatimamoe, which, 1 understand, may be taken as identical. The petition says, "We, members of the Ngaitahu and Ngatimamoe Tribes, are descendants and representatives of the aboriginal Natives to whom the block of land known as Ngaitahu or Kemp's purchase belonged." The Chairman: You have finished your statement 1 Mr. Hosking: Yes. I think there is nothing more for me to add. If the Committee desire any further information, if communication is made either direct to myself or to Mr. Charles Parata it will be made available for the Committee if we can get it.

Tuesday, 11th October, 1910. T. Parata, Member for the Southern Maori District, attended and addressed the Committee on behalf of the petitioners. (No. 4.) The Chairman: Have you anything to urge in favour of this petition? Mr. Parata: Yes. 1 would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that I sent a copy of this petition to each individual member of the House, and if members have mislaid or have not at this moment in their possession the copies which 1 sent them, and desire to refresh their memories, I can procure further copies. I will suggest, if you consider it necessary, I should furnish to each member of the Committee an additional copy of the petition before the Committee deliberates on the petition. The, Chairman: I think it would be well if that were done. Mr. Parata: I should like to say this: that I am a person who is looked up to by the members of the Ngaitahu Tribe, and I may state that the persons by whom the sale of the land which is the subject of this petition was made to the Crown or the New Zealand Company were my own relatives and ancestors. I shall, first of all, speak in regard to the sale to Mr. Kemp—what is called Kemp's purchase—which took place at Akaroa in the year 1848; but that sale, I may say, was a sale to the New Zealand Company, and in regard to this gentleman, Mr. Kemp, who effected the purchase, I might say that I saw him myself on his arrival in Otago in 1848, when he came down there on a man-of-war. He met the Chiefs Taiaroa and Karetai and other chiefs there, and he told them that the object of Kis visit was to negotiate with the chiefs or representative men of the people for the purchase of Native lands extending from Purehurehu, which is known as the North Head of Otago. Then Taiaroa and Karetai and the other chiefs asked him to adjourn the negotiations for further consideration of the matter until he had sent a messenger to Waikouaiti to request the attendance of Haereroa and other chiefs at the meeting in Otago This was agreed to, and on the arrival of Haereroa and the oilier chiefs at Otago Mr. Kemp explained to them the object of his visit, which was to negotiate for the purchase of the lands I have mentioned The Maori chiefs did not ask him what price he was going to pay or the area of the land that he hoped to purchase: all those details and particulars were allowed to remain over until the meeting took place at Akaroa, at winch the other chiefs of Kaiapoi and people in that neighbourhood would be present, so the man-of-war returned from Otago bringing on board Mr. Kemp and the following Maori chiefs: Haereroa, Taiaroa, Karetai, Wi Potiki, Wi te Kaki, Tare Wetere, Te Kaahu and other chiefs. There were a number of chiefs, and when they arrived at Akaroa all the Maoris from Kaiapoi, Port Levy, Te Taumutu, and Akaroa were assembled there. Then Mr Kemp proposed that they should go ashore to the Town of Akaroa, and there discuss the whole position m regard to the proposed purchase. They did so, and after discussing the matter for two or three days they arrived _at no result, the reason being that the Maoris demanded an exceedingly large price for their land. Mr. Kemp's reply to their demand was that he was unable to meet them for the reason that the limit of the purchase-money which he was prepared to offer was .£2,000. For that reason the Maoris said they would not consent to his proposal Well in consequence of this failure to agree between the Maori chiefs and Mr. Kemp, Mr. Kemp was distressed and annoyed with them, and he said, " If you do not accept this money which I now offer then I will pay it over to Ngatitoa," Ngatitoa being a tribe which belonged to the North Island! Mr. Kemp said that, because he was under the impression that the Ngatitoa Tribe was the conquering or supreme people, whereas, as a matter of fact, if the history of the fighting of the ancient days is looked into it will be found that the Ngatitoa people never conquered the Ngaitahu but were defeated by the Ngaitahu. However, the fact remains, Kemp went on to say to the Ngaitahu If you decline to accept this £2,000 in payment of your land, then soldiers will be brought here to drive you off the land and leave it for the occupation of Europeans " I might