1.—13b

14

Mr. J. Allen: It is a most important clause. When a teacher is appointed to a school, will he have a smaller salary than the one leaving? Hon. Mr. Fowlds: Yes. Mr. T. Mackenzie: He has not had the same experience. Hon. Mr. Fowlds: If the teacher has had the same length of service in the grade the salary would be the same. Mr. J. Allen: In VIIb the headmaster gets under the Bill £.270 to £310. Under the Act the pay begins at £275; under the Bill it begins at £270. lion. Mr. Fowlds: That is to a new teacher coming in—one who lias been promoted. Mr. llogben: But they get the annual increment; and if they begin below the present minimum they rise above the present maximum. Mr. J. Allen: Yes, but perhaps this does not apply to any except a very few cases. Hon. Mr. Fowlds: It applies to Grade 7 schools. Mr. Hogben: The salary would rise to £310. ■ Mr. J. Allen: We admit he gets an increment; but some start lower than at present, and others do not. It is anomalous. lion. Mr. Fowlds: In the case under notice the teacher would get £270 instead of a much smaller salary. What would a teacher who starts at £210 get? Mr. J. Allen: In your Bill a teacher who starts at £210 gets a maximum of £240, which is £10 less. The Bill is anomalous in regard to salaries. Mr. llogben: The anomalies existed before. The anomalies are cleared away by the Bill. What is perfectly regular may- appear to be an anomaly if your standard of comparison is anomalous. A teacher who starts at £270 goes on to £310. Mr. J. Allen: That is all right. What Ido not approve of is the starting at £270. Mr. Hogben: Unless you raise all the salaries still further you must have anomalies if you judge by the present scale. It is only in two or three cases that men start at smaller salaries. Mr. J. Allen: More than three. Mr. Hogben: I think you will only find two or three. The Chairman: In a school of 25 a teacher who has a salary of £130 under the Act starts at £120 under the Bill. Mr. Hogben: But his salary goes on to £150, which is £20 higher than under the Act. That cannot be called an anomaly. Mr. T. Mackenzie: By doing away with the pupil-teacher system, would you not deprive many young people of openings in the country? Sir. llogben: I do not think the Bill will do that. Mr. T. Mackenzie: lam very well satisfied with the Bill. Mr. Sidey: When a teacher has attained a certain salary, what provision is there for the salary being kept up to that figure? Mr. llogben: The amendment to clause 7 handed in just now. The Chairman: Have you got a statement prepared showing the position regarding the district high school? Mr. llogben handed in the following statement : —

Part V. —District High Schools. Staff and Salaries in Secondary Department.

Mr. Hogben (in answer to Mr. Buddo) : The effect might be to lower the salaries of some head teachers of district high schools —that is, in the case of new appointments. Mr. Buddo: The head teacher is receiving more than the services he had given warranted? Mr. Hogben: Some masters give more time to the secondary department than I think they should give. Mr. J. Allen: Are we going into this district-high-school scheme now? The Chairman: I trrink we will hold that over. Wednesday, sth Auodst, 1908. George Hogben, Inspector-General of Schools, examination continued. (No. 1.) The Chairman: I have received several letters from teachers, and I propose to put some questions to Mr. Hogben with a view to getting answers to the letters in the evidence. Mr. Hogben (in answer to the Chairman) : I think 600 is quite large enough for any school. Ido not think it desirable to encourage larger schools. In London schools are not encouraged to go beyond six or seven hundred.

Average Attendance of Secondary Department. Salaries (lajsibi le to Assistants in trie Second; ,ty Department £ 150 to 180 180 to 210 210 to 240 210 to 240 240 to 270 240 to 270 £ £ £ £ £ 12-30 ... 31-70 ... 71-105 ... 106-140 ... 141-175 ... 176-210 ... 135 to 165 165 to 180 165 to 180 180 to 210 180 to 210 135 to 165 135 to 165 165 to 180 165 to 180 135 to 150 135 to 165 135 to 165 150 to 180 150 to 180 135 to 150