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5. That seems a clumsy method. The better way would be to put in a covering clause?— That would be the best way to carry out what is wanted. 6. Mr. J. Allen.] I observe five anomalies in the staffing under this Bill. For instance, a school of 151 to 160 would have a head teacher, an assistant, two pupil-teachers, or two additional assistants. Under the old Act there is a head teacher, two assistant teachers, and two pupil-teachers. So the staff is smaller?— You mean that the number of the staff is smaller? 7. Yes?—-Yes; but when the Act is in full operation there will be two additional assistant teachers instead of the two pupil-teachers. 8. But, even so, it would not be as strong a staff as under the Act?— Yes, stronger, in my opinion. 9. It is not increasing but decreasing the staff. Why should it be decreased? —It is not decreasing the staff. Two pupil-teachers are always considered as not giving more strength than one adult. I would rather have one adult. 10. But the replacing of pupil-teachers Cannot take place for some years to come?— Meanwhile this proviso comes in. 11. I suggest that the staff is decreased —It is not weakened. At all events, 1 do not regard it as a weakness. Two pupil-teachers will be replaced by one adult teacher. 12. There has been a strengthening of the staff previously, but it seems to me that it will not be strengthened at all by this Bill?— You mean to say it will not be strengthened by having for these ten units (151 to 160) one headmaster, one assistant teacher, and two pupil-teachers. You are going to replace two pupil-teachers by one adult. 13. That is misleading. That will not take place tor years to come?—l differ from your opinion about the strengthening of the staff. Pupil-teachers are replaced by adults. That is what is done finally. 14. That may be some way off? —It can be done by regulation as fast as the supply of teachers will permit. 15. We want the Bill. I want to know whether the same thing takes place in the case cf schools of from 281 to 300?-—Yes. 16. And schools of 331 to 350?— Under the present Act those schools have a headmaster, five assistant teachers, and three pupil-teachers; under the Bill they would have one headmaster, four assistant teachers, and three pupil-teachers. 17. Or three additional assistants by-and-by?—Yes. 18. Just the same case as the other?—No, it is not the same case as the other. The difference is this: In the case of the school of 331-350 you will have one headmaster and seven assistants, instead of one headmaster, five assistants, and three pupil-teachers—eight adults instead of what may be considered as equivalent to seven and a half adults. 19. Yes—that is, after a while?—ln the other case —that of a school of 151—160—you will have one headmaster and three assistants, as against one headmaster, two assistants, and two pupilteachers. 20. It is just the same case as the other? —No, no; the staff of the 331-350 school is stronger. Under the present Act you have five assistants and three-pupil-teachers, while under this Bill you will have seven assistants. 21. I do not want to labour the point, but it seems to me to be the same thing—an anomaly? —It is not anomalous. The schools will be very much more strongly staffed. 22. What effect will it have upon the cost if another assistant were given in schools of 281—300? We have never had an estimate of the cost of the whole thing?—lt will cost £950 additional. 23. Generally ?—Yes. 24. All through the colony ? —Yes, all through the colony. 25. That would give the schools an increased staff?— You might put it down at £950 or £1,000. ■ 26. What do you suppose to put a school of 281-300 into Grade VIIIa would generally cost?— That would utterly derange the whole school. I consider that the schools would be far better staffed under the Bill. The additional cost for all schools of 281-300, if placed, in VIIIa, would be £1,320. The additional cost for all schools of 331-350, if graded VIIIb, would be £2,450. I estimate that the total increased cost of the scheme as compared with the present scale will be £75,590. Most of that amount will be absorbed by the increase in the staffing of the schools. 27. Hon. Mr. Fowlds.] Not all?— Most of it. 28. The larger part of it?— Yes. Mr. Hogben (in answer to Mr. J. Allen) : The increase of salary to the present teachers will amount to about £33,000. In the exceptional cases quoted, school staffs would be prevented from being any smaller during the period of transition by the proviso enabling additional teachers to be appointed to bring the schools up to the present standard. 29. Mr. J. Allen.] Is there any possibility of a teacher's salary falling in consequence of a fall in average attendance? —I thought that might be dealt with by regulation, but I find it cannot. I therefore last week suggested an addition to clause 7 of the Bill somewhat to this effect: "If any school at the beginning of any year is placed in Grade 1 or a higher grade, and such school thereafter be reduced in grade, the salary of any teacher who remains in the same position therein shall for two years continue to be paid in the same way as if such school had remained in the same grade: Provided that the school shall be at all times staffed in accordance with the grade or subgrade to which it belongs : Provided, further, that after the expiry of two years any teacher in such school whose salary is reduced to an inferior grade or subgrade shall receive as his salary the maximum salary of the grade or subgrade to which he has been so reduced." Mr. J. Allen: So we shall get that printed, Mr. Chairman? The Chairman: Yes.