93

G.—2

320. Are you not aware that the land that has been leased to Sir Walter Buller at Papaitonga is land belonging to Keraipe te Puke and others ?—Yes ; I have heard that; but the Court awarded it to Muaupoko. 321. At the award of this land to Muaupoko, in 1873 by the Court, did not Sir Donald McLean pay over some money in respect of the block to Keraipe te Puke ?—I heard that; but it was in order that your anger and discontent might cease, and still you are making further angry claims now. 322. How do you explain that this land, having been awarded to you, £1,000 was paid to persons outside of the land that has been awarded to you ?—lt was not paid on that account; it was paid simply to allay discontent and trouble that arose out of it. 323. Do you think it was a right thing, when I was claiming a right to the land, that it should be tempted by a payment of £1,000? —It was not we who tempted you or deceived you; we did not pay anything. 324. Why did not the Government get the land after paying the money ? It went to Kemp ? —Well, that was so; it was Sir Donald McLean who paid the money, but the land was left for Kemp. 325. Are you not aware that persons who have not been concerned in that payment are still contending to have their land adjudicated upon by Parliament ?—I will ask, who are those persons ? 326. They are Ngatiraukawa, the descendants of Te Whatanui ? —I do not know who you mean, because I was present at Wellington, and all the Ngatiraukawa were there—Te Eauparaha Watene, Matene, Karanama, Hoani Taipua, and others. They all participated in this money. 327. Were you at the Court in 1886? —Yes. 328. Were you there when Kemp said to put aside 1,200 acres for the descendants of Whatanui?—Yes ; all the tribe agreed to that. 329. Did you not hear that Kemp proposed to allocate the land to Papaitonga ?—Yes; the descendants of Whatanui would not agree to accept it there. They wanted the land at Hokio, and their particular desire was for eel-weirs. .330. And they brought it back to Hokio ? —Yes. 331. Are their cultivations, and residences, and eel-weirs included in this section of 1,200 acres? —There were no old fences. Some Europeans had been to see it, and they saw the fences all new, and the land was vacant. 332. How did they grow food, if they had no fences?— Their cultivations were in the 100 acres allotted to them by the Court, but, by our consent, they have subsequently spread a little further out. 333. Did you not hear the Court state that, in awarding this 100 acres to Ngatiraukawa, it was not intended thereby to prevent their further applications for the whole block ? —I never heard that from the Court. 334. Did you not hear that the Court, addressing the descendants of Whatanui said, " Your petition has been deposited in Parliament, and this award will not prevent consideration of it " ?—I did not hear that; possibly Kemp may have heard it ;we did not. 335. Did you not hear that, on some occasion when Kemp went to Auckland, he met the lineal descendant of Whatanui there, and said to him, "If I am fortunate in getting a title to this land, I will remember the promise of Taueki to Te Whatanui" ? —I did hear it, and there it is now— No. 9. Kemp said to Pomare, "If I win this land, I will give you back this part." When he did win, he returned this part. 336. Did you hear Kemp say that it was on account of this promise to Pomare he did not come to the Court ?—Yes. 337. Mr. Nicholson.] —From whom did you hear of that conversation with Pomare at Auckland ? —From Kemp, after the Court at Palmerston in 1886. 338. Te Whatanui was dead at the time of the first trouble between Ngatiraukawa and Muaupoko ?—Yes. 339. Which descendants of Whatanui were quarrelling with Muaupoko at that time?— Watene. Pomare also arrived at the time of kupe. 340. Do you say that Pomare came to the meeting at kupe ? —No; he came before the erection of that house. The meeting had dispersed before he came. 341. At the time of the burning of the houses, what descendants of Te Whatanui inhabited them ?—Watene and his companions. 342. Who were the opponents of Muaupoko at the Court at Foxton ?—Ngatiraukawa, Ngatiawa, and Ngatiapa. Those were the tribes that assembled, but the actual opponents were Ngatiraukawa. All the chiefs were there —Matene te Whiwhi and Tamihana te Eauparaha, and others. 343. My question is, which of the Ngatiraukawa contended with you for the Horowhenua Block ?—Watene and Tauteka. 344. They were both defeated by Muaupoko at that Court ?—Yes. 345. On their defeat, did they abandon the land, or still remain there ?—They still remained there, and Tauteka died there ; and Te Hitau also died there. 346. After that, you burned the houses at Mahoenui?—Yes. 347. The object in burning the houses was to drive Watene and Tauteka off the land ?—Yes. 348. On the arrival of Sir Donald McLean at Otaki, to put an end to the trouble, you and Kawana Hunia and others went to Wellington : was I one who went there, on the side of Ngatiraukawa ? —Yes ; you were one. 349. Are you aware that McLean invited Kemp to come there also ?—Yes. 350. Are you aware of the meeting which took place at the hostelry at which Sir Donald McLean attended ?—Yes. 351. Do you know of the allotment of 1,200 acres proposed to be allotted to Watene and Tauteka ?—Yes; I heard it.