92

Or.— 2

angry, and then I spoke louder than ever. Then he said, "If your disposition is good, the law will protect you." I said, " All you can do for me at this time is to set aside this bad law." " Yes," he said; but he was lying. He said, "If your disposition is good, the Government will protect you." I said, " Well, I request of you to throw down this bad law that is oppressing us." The Premier said to me, " You have been prompted secretly by some Europeans to destroy any Europeans that go on to this land." Mr. Edwards was startled at that; he was our lawyer and had lodged a caveat against the title. He got up and said, "I am not a bad man; you know I do not take bad cases." They began to argue in English, and I could only understand a word here and there. 288 a. But the survey went on all the same? —The survey and clearing and everything has gone on all the same; we could offer no obstruction, having been arrested. 289. What do you mean by having been arrested? —The police were with us. I went in the hands of the police to Wellington. They heard that all the Muaupoko had been arrested; but when we arrived in Wellington, the tribe said it was not true. 290. Have you, ever since that time, consented to the sale by Warena of this part of your estate ? —No ; we never consented ; our caveat was left there. 291. You have never removed your caveat ?—The Premier said he could easily break the caveat. 292. Have you ever told your lawyers to remove it?— Never; it is still there. 293. Kipa te Whatanui.] Do you know all about this land at Horowhenua?—Am I not a resident of Horowhenua ? 294. Can you explain the mana of Whatanui on this land ?—I could have, had this mana not been taken from the land by the Native Land Court in 1873. 295. Is that the reason you cannot now speak of the mana of Whatanui on this land and of his cultivations? —The residence and cultivation of Whatanui were all explained to the Court in 1873, and the Court would not give effect to it. 296. Will you state all you know about Whatanui since 1873 ?—I have seen Watene and his companions squatting on this land subsequent to 1873, because the land had been awarded to us. 297. Can you give the names of the settlements and cultivations of the Whatanui in this block?.—l can.; there was a residence at Hokio; and also at Tatearero they had a settlement. 298. Did they not live at Te Mairi?—There was a settlement there; Eewiri worked there subsequently. 299. Do you know the places where Te Whatane's houses were burned ?—Yes ; at Kotoroa. 300. Do you know where Hene Matiora lived in those days ? —That is a new place. 301. Is this place in No. 14, or on this side of Hokio?— It is in No. 11. 302. Had Te Whatanui a settlement at Bakauhamama ? —I do not know that he had ; but a man named Te Puke had. I have seen the younger Te Puke getting eels there by himself. 303. Is not Eakauhamama the boundary between Watene and Te Puke ?—I do not know of that boundary. 304. Is not the mana of Te Whatanui altogether on the south side of Hokio ? —I do not know of any mana he had there ; I have seen him residing there. 305. Are you not aware that it was previous to the Treaty of Waitangi that Te Whatanui resided there ?—I do not know the date of that treaty. 306." How can you speak of these battles and wars you have spoken of, if you know nothing of that treaty ? —The elders have spoken to me about these wars, but not of the treaty. 307. From the time of Te Whatanui to the present time, have you not seen descendants of his sister residing there ?—Yes. 308. Which of Te Whatanui's children was that—the second or third?— What I have heard is that Whatanui Tutaki was the eldest son of Te Whatanui, by his first wife. 309. Was that the cause of their residence there, from that time to the present ?—Yes. 310. Seeing that this land was awarded to you in 1873, and that they still remained on the land, was that the reason you burned their houses ?—Yes. 311. Was it not a very wrong proceeding to burn the houses of the persons who owned the land?— Yes ; but this land had been awarded to us, and they still remained on it. 312. Do you not know that a person who has committed murder is tried three times before he is hanged ?—I know that; but he was living there trespassing, and it was a proper thing to drive him off. This land had become mine, and why should he remain on it ? 313. Are you not aware that Te Whatanui had taken this land by conquest from before the Treaty of Waitangi ? —Ngatiraukawa made no conquests; let some women who are here of Ngatitoa speak of conquest, but not Ngatiraukawa nor W T hatanui. 314. Do you not know of a great battle at Papaitonga by Ngatiraukawa ? —I do not know of Ngatiraukawa; that battle was of Te Bauparaha. The only fighting of Ngatiraukawa was Heretaunga, and there they were defeated by Ngatikahungungu, and they did not fight any more. 315. Are you not aware that it was Te Bauparaha, who made the conquest, who invited Ngatiraukawa to occupy the land ?—I did not hear that invitation. 316. Are you not aware that the Muaupoko and Bangitane and Ngatiapa were rescued out of the hands of Te Bauparaha by Te Whatanui ? —No. 317. Are you not aware that peace was made between Te Whatanui and these tribes at a place called Karekare ? —Yes ; I have heard of that peacemaking. He was in a great hurry to make peace after the defeat he got at Hawke's Bay and other places by the Ngatikahungungu. 318. Was it not because Kemp knew that this was disputed land south of Hokoio that he placed Warena there ? —That is a supposition ; that is a reason in your own mind only. It never occurred to Kemp. 319. Is it not because you know of the trouble in this part that you desired to sell it"?—We have given you a piece of land there, and now you come back and want eel-weirs ; it is the eel-weirs you wane.