Or.—2

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352. Are you not aware that at the same time McLean paid over a sum of money to the other section of Ngatiraukawa to settle their claims on the Waiwiri side ? —Yes ; I saw it. 353. Was there any trouble that arose afterwards ?—No. 354. Who of the descendants of Whatanui are living on the land?—-Your party ; but they are not living on this block; they are living at an outside place, a long way off. 355. But the stock are running on No. 9 since long ago?— Yes; that is where all the stock runs. 356. Mr. Stevens.] You said you were about 4ft. 6in. high in 1839.—Yes; and was able a carry a burden. 357. Was Te Hakeke at Kuititanga, or was he dead then ? —He may have been there. 358. Were you there ? —No ; I was not there ; I had come to Horowhenua. 359. Was Te Hakeke ever at Horowhenua?—l never saw him there. 360. Do you know what his wife's name was?— Yes ; it was Kaewa. 361. To what tribe did she belong?—Aiterangi. 362. Was that a hapu of Muaupoko ?—lt was a section of the Ngatipariri. I informed Parliament that this woman did not have rights at Horowhenua, but Waikawa and Waitohu. 363. Did Te Hakeke come down the coast here to where his wife resided, for the purpose of being married, or was his wife taken to Bangitikei?—l heard that he came here to be married, but I am not sure. 364. Therefore, he was at Horowhenua?—l have heard he did come and was married here; another story was, that they were married at Waikawa. 365. Is it not a fact that Ngatipariri is a section of the whole Muaupoko Tribe?—Ngatipariri belong to the Ngatikahunu. 366. Have you heard of the name of an ancestor called Upoko Patunui ?—Yes ; I have heard of that ancestor. He was killed ; he is an ancestor of ours. 367. Did not Te Hakeke's wife also descend from that ancestor?—-I do not know about that; the only ancestor I know of is Pariri. I have seen, and you have seen,. the books of the Court in which. Wirihana has always spoken of his ancestor Pariri. 368. With regard to the time at which the houses were burned beyond the lake, when kupe was erected, do you remember that time ? —I do not know the year, but I saw the house being erected. 369. Who took the most prominent part in the directions for the erection of that house ?—■ Muaupoko erected it. When it was erected, then Hunia came. 270. What right had he to come, if his father and mother do not belong here ?—I do not know what to say to that; the Muaupoko and Ngatiapa had all assembled at the Court of 1873 ; the whole talk was to combine together. 371. I am talking of the Hunia coming to kupe, not of the assembly at Foxton ? —They had joint interest in the land, and were always working together at that time. 372. Were they considered by the people as equal in rank at that time ?—No ; they were not considered to be equal. The special and great desire of Te Eauparaha was always to crush and kill Tanguru ; he could not do so, but that that was his desire was shown by many things. 374; If Kemp was considered a greater chief than Hunia, how is it that, at the time you had the trouble of the burning of the houses and so on, he did not take an active part, but remained at Wanganui ?—Kemp had advised Hunia not to hurry into trouble, tf-ii 375. Did he wait and be patient? —No ;he would not wait, but set fire to the houses. 376. Therefore, he was not controlled by Kemp in any way ? —No; and because he would not listen, he was taken to gaol. 377. By the police authorities?—No; Sir Donald McLean invited him to Wellington to have the matter adjudicated upon. 378. Do you know whether he went to Wellington on the invitation of McLean, or was compelled to go by reason of a criminal summons ?—No ; I do not know. 379. Supposing it is shown in evidence that Hunia, acting on his own account and ignoring instructions from Kemp, burned the houses and was afterwards put in gaol for his act, would that be right ?—I do not know whether it would be right or wrong, but I know money had to be paid on account of it. Puke and others had to get money. 380. Did Hunia do as stated in the previous question ?—Yes ; it was he who burned the houses, and had to go to gaol. His elders, Hapimana and Karaitiana, and two others went into gaol permanently, but he was bailed out by the Ngatiawa. 381. During that time Hunia was doing all he could to maintain their rights to the land?— Yes; that was what the Judge said when he was tried. I heard the Judge stating that Hunia's purpose was simply to assert his right. 382. With regard to the Court of 1886, you have said there were many chiefs —you said Kemp was one and Taueki another ?—Yes. 383. Was Hunia not also a chief ?—I have already said that Hakeke was a chief at Eangitikei; his mana did not extend to Horowhenua. 384. If his father belonged to Muaupoko and Pariri, why did not his mana extend to Horowhenua?—l have explained already that Kaiawa's land was at Waikawa and Waitohu. 385. You say that Taueki was a great chief: was his ancestor not Ngatiapa?—His ancestress was from Ngatiapa. 386. Where was his ancestor from ?—His paternal ancestor was from Muaupoko. 387. Was he not also from Eangitane?—Eangitane is a part of Muaupoko. 388. Hunia was partly Ngatiapa and partly Muaupoko; but, could he not be connected with other tribes and still be a chief of Muaupoko ? —Taueki was the old chief of Horowhenua; but if you.speak about remote ancestors, I can show you where Temou|s post still remains at Hokio