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22. They take what are called the "long-number" jobs?—Yes. 23. Do you know whether or not they make large profits ?—They are generally considered pretty wealthy men. 24. There is another class of work which it is believed might be as well and as economically executed in private offices as in the Government Office. I refer to such work as Dr. Hector's catalogues, Handbooks of New Zealand, and semi-official publications of that character. Would it be advisable or not to treat that as "stock "work?—l should say that that work could be done quite as cheaply outside as in the Government Printing Office ; but if you take that class of work away from the Government Office you simply jam the Printer at once, because he would have to discharge a large number of the. permanent hands, and he could not get them together again towards the session. That work is invaluable to the Printing Office ; but if you ask me if it can be done as cheaply outside, I say Yes, though it would not be fair to the establishment to take away this work, because to do the work efficiently there must be a good permanent staff; and. there is no doubt the Government Printer has a lot of good men. 25. I understand you to say this: Although the work might be done as well and as cheaply outside, still it is advisable to keep it as a stand-by in order to keep the skilled staff together?—And a staff to meet emergencies. The work that comes in sometimes has to be turned out quickly, and without a sufficient available staff this would be impossible. In cases of that kind the Printer would take men off the ordinary work and put them on that which was required quickly. 26. You have worked as a printer in the Government Printing Office? —Yes. 27. And you have some knowledge of how the office is conducted ? —Yes. 28. Is there much of what is called the " Government stroke" there?—-Well, those who think so had better take three months in it. I consider the men there work as hard as in any establishment in the colony. 29. Well, now, Mr. Kirkbride, as the operations of an establishment of that kind grow larger are there not, as you have already indicated, certain advantages connected with the buying of paper. That is to say, the more work an establishment has to do, does it not gain by buying material largely ?—That is a question which applies to every establishment. If it buys largely it naturally gets better terms. I may say Spicer and Co.'s traveller passed through Marton on his way to Auckland and called upon me. He said he had the contract for supplying the Government Printing Office with paper, and I think he said with stationery also; that the Government Printer had made very good terms with him ; and, in fact, that he was about the keenest man he had come across. 30. Do you think the electoral rolls could be printed more cheaply in private establishments than at the Government Office? —This question is like asking one to cut one's own throat. 31. Mr. Cadman.] Mr. Kirkbride, you said something about a comparison between the Government Printing Offices in Melbourne and New Zealand. Have you worked in any Government Printing Office in the other colonies?—l have not worked at the Government Printing Office in Melbourne, but I have worked in Melbourne, Ballarat, and other places. I judge by the work I have seen turned out by both establishments. Mr. Gilbert Carson examined. 32. The Chairman.] Mr. Carson, the object of this inquiry is to ascertain whether it is or is not advisable to execute by private contract any portion of the printing of the Government of the colony. Will you give us your opinion upon that point ?—You mean any part of it ? 33. Let me put a prior question. Are you a practical printer ?—I am. 34. How long have you been connected with the trade ?—About twenty-eight years. 35. You have worked in the Government Office, I believe? —Yes, for about seven years, as printer and reader. 36. Will you now give the answer to my first question, keeping in view the point as to economy or cheapness ?—I think it would be well sometimes to give a little work outside, as a test of prices and a check on the Government Office. But, as a whole, for cheapness I think the Government Office is far preferable to having a large amount of contract work. An odd job, for which there was no particular hurry, might be done outside. 37. You speak of testing the cheapness or otherwise of the work done in the Government Office by giving portions of it out to contract. In effect, then, you seem to be of opinion that there must be a Government Printing Office ?—I think it must be obvious that if you had not a Government Printing Office to check the cost of printing it would get into the hands of a small number of the large firms of the colony, who would get their own prices. 38. Is not a great portion of the work of a secret or confidential character ?—That is another question ; but lam now speaking as to economy. Secrecy is, of course, an important consideration. But, as I am now referring to the question of cost, I would point out that the greater part of the work is work that must be done immediately —in the session. That is the time when it accumulates. 39. Then, do I understand you could not possibly get it done by contract?—Not unless there were well-equipped offices on the spot; and private offices, if rushed with work, would necessarily charge accordingly. It could certainly be done cheaper by the Government Office, because the staff-hands are all well-selected men —men who could not be bettered anywhere, and who can do any kind of work. These men work the full number of hours, are paid at ordinary rates, and have few privileges beyond those accorded to printers in private offices. Then, there is a large proportion of the work done on piecework, for which men are paid according to the work they do. In the recess, if there is not enough work to keep these men fully employed they have to work part-time, and the colony accordingly loses nothing, as the men are paid just in proportion to the amount of work they do. 40. Mr. J. B. Whyte.] Would not that imply a high rate of prices ?—No. I believe that in the . recess the ordinary rates prevail. During the session, when men come from a distance for about