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MINUTES OE EVIDENCE. Tuesday, 21st July, 1885. (Mr. George Fisher, Chairman.) Mr. J. L. Kirkbride examined. . ' 1. The Chairman.'] I may explain to you, Mr. Kirkbride, that this is a Committee appointed by the House to inquire into the one definite question as to the advisableness or otherwise of printing under private contract any part of the printing required by the Government of the colony. You are a practical printer of some considerable experience ?—Yes. 2. How many years have you been connected with the trade ? —About twenty-six. 3. Are you in business for yourself ?—Yes, and have been for ten years. 4. What business ? —Newspaper and general printing. 5. You are the proprietor of a newspaper yourself? —Yes, and of a general printing office. 6. Do you think any of the Government printing can be done cheaper by contract than at the Government Printing Office ?—No. 7. Will you give your reasons for that opinion?—Well, in the first place I think the permanent staff of compositors in the Government Printing Office equal to anything you could get together in the colony. Many of them have had years of special training; so of course they do better work and more profitable work than could be done in any private establishment. 8. Is the work of the Government Printing Office peculiar in its character?—Yes, a good deal of it. There is a very large amount of tabular work, and very few compositors have a chance to qualify themselves in that class of work to anything like the extent they have in the Government Printing Office. It is a special kind of work, and is seldom met with to any extent in private offices. 9. And is the Government Printing Office, generally speaking, better equipped as to plant ?— Yes, it must necessarily be so. For tabular work, for instance, they have to provide very much larger founts than are to be found in any one, or, in fact, any three private establishments put together in the colony. 10. Then it has, I believe, stereotype and electrotype plants ? —Yes; but several of the private establishments could compete with it in that respect. 11. What is the custom in the Australian Colonies? Are there Government printing offices there ?—Yes; very much larger establishments than the Wellington office. 12. Then the natural deduction is that they find it more advantageous to do the work in Government printing offices? —Yes. The work cannot be done satisfactorily outside. There is a lot of it of a confidential character, and, moreover, a considerable portion has to be got out in a hurry. 13. On account of the peculiar nature of the work, is a specially-trained staff of skilled workmen required?—Yes; and they have it there. Of course Ido not speak of the piece-hands— they get paid by results; but the permanent staff could not be equalled in the colony. lam speaking of them as a body. 14. As to the printing of the estimates, Ministerial statements, State documents, and all descriptions of parliamentary Bills ? —You now mention a class of work that could not possibly be done out of Wellington. As to the estimates, to my own knowledge I have seen them altered, I should say, a dozen times a day. 15. That work would have to be done in Wellington?—lt could not be done out of it. 16. As to the Public Works statements, Education and Mining reports—simple work of that class ?—lt all depends upon when the reports are brought in. Of course, reports of that kind could be done by private establishments during the recess; but, if I remember rightly, they generally come down during session time. 17. Now, is it not desirable, looking at it purely from an experienced printer's point of view, that there should be a Government Printing Office in order that the printing should have " style " and tradesman-like finish ?—The work is done well, no doubt, and I believe the printing at the Government Printing Office here is infinitely superior to the Melbourne or Sydney work. That is generally conceded. 18. Do you think there would be any falling-off in that respect if the printing were done privately ? —I think there would. lam sure there would. 19. Now, come 'to the commercial aspect of the matter. Suppose 10,000 copies of any particular form were required for Auckland, 10,000 for Wellington, 10.000 for Christchurch, and 10,000 for Dunedin ; suppose those forms were perfectly simple in character ; would it be more profitable to have them printed privately or in the Government Printing Office ? lam speaking of a class of work on which there would be no risk as to correctness. What would the result be as to cost ?— Well, of course, if the work were done in Wellington there would only be the one setting-up. If it were put out to tender in each of the provinces then it would have to be set up nine times. 20. It is a simple, well-understood principle with printers that it is the long numbers that pay ? —Yes : very frequently the profit is made out of the paper alone. 21. Do you know what is the custom in England ? —I believe the greater part of the work is done by Spottiswoode and Waterlow, and they have very large establishments.