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three months' work, of course larger rates rule. The ordinary colonial rate would be about Is. per thousand ; but during the session, in the Government Office, there is a slight advance —then Is. 3d. is paid. 41. The Chairman.] Is not the advance made on account of the peculiar nature of that work. There is no " fat" with it, and the hands say that even at Is. 3d. it is impossible for them to earn more than they could at the ordinary rate ? —I do not know that the complaint was as to that ; but I think the men said they were working for sixty-two hours at Is. 3d. per thousand, and that they did not average £3 a week. If the facts are as I have stated them, I think they oughttobeashamedtoconfess.it. An extra penny has, I understand, been given to the men. I think that the reason why the men do not make the work pay is that they must be inferior workmen. Very few of the better class of men, who are in constant work, can be expected to come to Wellington for the sake of three months' employment, even at Is. 3d. or Is. 4d. per thousand; consequently inferior men have to be employed, and the extra penny just granted I consider to be nothing more than a premium for incompetence. If the men had said that at Is. 3d. a thousand they could earn £4 a week, but that was not fair remuneration considering the shortness of their engagement, their contention would have been understandable. 42. On account of the peculiar nature of the work, does not a Government printing office require to be specially equipped as to plant ?— A much larger quantity of special material is required than would be requisite for a private office. 43. Are there Government printing offices in the other colonies ? —I believe there are ; but I have no personal experience of them. I have never been through them. 44. On account of the special character of the work are workmen of a skilled class required ? — You want good all-round men. Your ordinary newspaper hands would not do for if you were to put these on such work,- say, as a statistical table, they could not do it. I have known such men hand over what is known as tabular work, for which more is paid, to another printer for a trifle —that is, they have given away what is called " fat," because they could not do it. There is another thing with regard to a Government office : the work there is very much condensed. If work were given to a contractor, he would be paid at per page, and would consequently try to make as many pages as possible : where the Government could get a job done in forty or fifty pages, the contractor would try to make sixty or more pages of it. 45. Mr. Dargaville.] That is, they would put breaks in to make so many more paragraphs?— Yes, and they would make as many " breaks " as possible. 46. Mr. W. F. BucHand.] Would you do that? —Yes. Work looks better reasonably " whited" out. The men engaged on the work would do it. They would start it for their payment, and the contractor would carry it out for his. 47. Mr. J. B. Whyte.] Could not that be checked ? —To some extent it might; but it would be always done more or less. There are other ways in which advantage would be taken of the Government. In a contract a particular quality of paper might be stipulated for, but inferior qualities would sometimes be used, and very likely be passed. Occasionally a deduction might be made on that .account, but the contractor would generally get the best of it. Then there is another thing—l know that it has been done in small places, and could be done in large places if there be not too many competing : contractors could arrange among themselves the profit to be made, and how the work should be done. 48. You appear to think that there is a large amount of work to be done which could not conveniently be done in proper time by a private firm ?—lt could not be done unless such offices were better supplied than I think they are at present. There would have to be special "founts "of type got for it. That would be a great difficulty. As to time, you would want the greater portion of the work done in the session. 49. Very often it would be wanted to be done next day ?—You could not get it done in the colony in the time. 50. But I want to know whether it could be done by the offices here ? —They could not possibly do it. Another disadvantage in the matter of tendering would be the cost of "corrections." Corrections would be charged for at per hour, but it would be difficult to check the number of hours that ought to be charged; and corrections form a very large portion of Government work. In these and other matters it would be difficult to keep an efficient check upon a contractor if there were no Government office. 51. The Chairman.] Will you more fully explain these minutiae for the information of the Committee? —Yes, I will explain. There is one matter I will refer to by way of example : In my district I am a member of the Education Board, and I was recently asked to look into the contractor's account for printing. It seemed to be heavy. I found that the contract price for printing the Board's report was a very reasonable one; but it was fixed at per page per hundred copies, any number over the hundred being charged at the same rate. An officer of the Board, not thinking, ordered 250 copies, with the result that what should have cost us £20 mounted up to £50. Then there was another matter: There was a large statistical folding table attached to the report, that might have been compressed into half the space it occupied. This table alone cost £18. No specific instructions were given that it was to be compressed, and it was consequently spun out. It certainly looked all the better for it, but it cost us double what it should have done. Things of that kind would constantly occur, and you could not check them. 52. Mr. W. F. Buckland.] Suppose we let some of the work by contract, would not that lessen the amount to be done in the Government Office ? —Certainly it would ; but it seems to me that the cost of the Government Office depends mainly upon honourable members themselves. Very often during the session bulky printed returns are ordered without members having the least idea what they will cost. If a member knew before moving for a simple return that its preparation and printing would cost the country, say, £100, he would probably think twice before asking for it.