House of Representatives AFTERNOON SITTING.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 5055, 14 September 1894, Page 4

House of Representatives AFTERNOON SITTING.

The Ho "use met __t 2.30 p.m. '* questions. Replying to Mr M'Gowan, whether the Government would take into consideration the necessity of having the cyanide .olution U3ed in gold-saving manufactured in the colony, The Honß. J. Seddon said his colleague Mr Cadmau had given this matter hia attention, and tbe Government thought that by improving the process in uee at Thames there would be no necesaity for taking the action asked for. The Government, how ever, would.do its best in the interests of tha industry. JBeplying to'Cap'ain Rursel', The Hon R. J. Seddon said tbe Public Works Statement would be brought down as coon as the Government knew what money would be available. Ifc waa proponed to take fche second reading of the Cheap Money Bill to-morrow, and then to proceed with the Native Land Purchase and Roading proposal-. As coon as the House had disposed of those measures the Government would be in a position to Btate what eums could be put on the Public Works Estimate** to give effect to those proposals. Replying to Mr E. M. Smith, The Hon J. M'Kbnzib said there were fifteen applicants for benus No. 1, and nine for bonus No. 2, for the encouragement and improvement of tho flax industry of the colony, but he thought it better to wait till the judges bad sent in their report as to tbe merits or demerits of t Se machines and proces sea of persons claiming' tho bonnaeß, before ta_iag further aotion. Replying to B_r Thompson, The Hon W. P. Rekvbs aaid i _ was true that a number of men had been sent from Chri.- tc hurch to Hikurangi to work on the tail way. Ho wbb not aware that a large number of men in tha Hikurangi district were unemployed and in distressed circumstances. He Baw no reason why men in cities ahould be deprive! of- work on the railways, as if that w«re the case, they should not be called upon to pay taxeß. * BANK AMALGAMATION. The Hon J. G. Ward said he deßired to stale -to the House that the Government had received the proposals* from tho representatives of the Bankof New Zealand and the Colo_)i»l Bank. Theso gentlemen had forwarded to the Government proposals for amalgamation of tbo two banks. The Government would consider those proposals, and would lay them bafore tbe Houee on Tuesday. Ia the meantime nothing would bo done till after the Government had decided what course ii would take on tho prcposa's, whioh were of a very important nature, and would require careful consideration. He understood that certain statements had been sent through the olony respecting th - iatentions of the Government on thiß matter, but he wished to say-that the proposals made were of a distinctly confidential character, and no information whatever had been given by tbe Government on thorn. Whatever waa the nature of the statements sent out, he said the House Bhould accep 1, them with caution, as they ware nofc au thorieed by the Government. Captain Russell asked whether the propositions to be made 1 y the Government would be laid before the Houee. The Hon J. G. Wabd said he did not Bay that there vsould be any propositions from the Government. Tbe House would be advised of ihe intentions of the Government in the matter. Captain Rusbell ssid he wanted the Tre_ surer to inform the House tbat they would not be asked to discus. I hose proposals without having sufficient time to consider them. Tbe Hon J. G. Ward replied that sufficient timo would be given. In reply to Mr Bell, The Hon J. G. Ward said the proposile would bo printed for the information of the House. the unemployed. Mr Thompson moved the adjournment of the House, to enable him to protect against the reply given by Mr Reeves to hia question. He took strong objection to men being Bent from Chrisfcchurch to his district when thore were bo many meu already out of employment. He 6trongly attacked the administration of the Minister of Labour and his' department, and siid that working men were frequently ioßulted by labour officia'S when tbey asked for work. If the bone and sinew of the country were to be treated as paupers by the Labour Department, he thought the sooner that department was abolished the better. Tho Hon W. P. Reeves was at a lo_s to understand wby the member for Madden should on every occasion go oub ol his way to ma.c personal attacks on him and to condemn his department. He defended his action in tending a score of men to Hikurangi, and said they were just as much entitled to be sent there, being taxpayers of the coleny, as anyone else. If the dictum were adopted that only local men ahould be employed on public works, all hope of dealing with the unemployed difficulty would be at an end. He denied absolutely that working men were insulted by the Labour Department, or that they were afraid to approach the officials, as stated by Mr Thompson. If tho member for Marsden wss so opposed to the administration of the Government, how. was it that he had supported them all the time they bad been in effice P His proper place, if he really entorfcained such opinions as he had given utterance to, was with the Opposition. After a lengthy di.cuQsion the motion for adjournment lapsed. NEW ZEALAND CONSOLS. The New Zealand Cons .la Bill was introduced by message from the Governor, and read a first time. GOVERNMENT BAILWAYS. The Hon R. J. Seddon moved the recommittal of the Government Railways Act Amendment Bill for the consideration of certain clauses. Motion carried. The House rose at 5.30 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. in commute *<n the Government Railways Bill, and several technical amendment, were made in various clause.. Clause 3 was altered so as to give the Railway Commi .aionera twelve months' engagement from the date of their appciotment irs'ead of nine months. The Hon R. J. Seddon, in proposing a new clause which Rave power to the Government to make regulations for classification aud to regulate admiaaons to the railway servico, Baid ho hai cinsalter. with the Eailway Commi.rioners, tn* they agreed that ifc would be icripossiV-l _ ij' presont to pub in a concreto form their classification scheme in this Bill. Th t matter would be gone iuto thoroughly snlifit wore found that a cias-i-ication schema euch as that in operation in tin Post and Telegraph Department; werfeasible, tho Legialafcuro would bo aaked nesfc year to consider such an Aot. H> explained that ho ir.t-.nded to _sk the House to assent to the Bill co__irg iutc operation oa .T_n. 1 next. Mr G. W. Russell moved an addition to

t^^^Bwei&BBBKBBaBXSKmBBBmK&Bmm*£tt'R the Premier's clause, that a return be laid on the table at the commencement of each _es3ii n, showing the number of men in the service, with the salaries they receive. Agreed to. „._.._ Mr Buick moved a further addition to the clause, to provide that no person should be appointed to the goneral management cave as officers are appointed in other departments of the Civil Service j that no person should be appointed to the traffic or locomotive classes save aa experts are appointed in other departments of the Service; that cadetß Bhould be nomin »fci>d by members ot the House in alphaboticil order, no member to have a second nomination till every other member has had h.s ; that no person should be appointed to the traffic or locomotive clasjcs unless he. had passed the Sixth Standard or its eqnivalent. • Lost; by 43 to 16. Tho Premier's clause, with the addition by Mr Russell, was agieed to. The Hon R. J. Sbddon movel a further new clause, providing that the Act should come in*.o force on Jan. 1 next. Agreed to. lt was also agreed that Clauee 7, validating proclamations, should come into force at once. Dr Newman moved in tho echedule that in addition to the proclamations validating the North Island Main Trunk line, ehould be added, "and all other Government lines." Tho Hrn R. J. Seddon opposed the Amendment, and asked tho committee to negative it. j After some discussion, j Mr Joyce ruled thac the amendment could nofc be put from the chair. The Bill waa reported with amendments, which were ordered to be conaidered next day. licensing bill. The Hon R. J. Seddon moved the second reading of the licensing Bill, to consolidate snd amend the laws regulating the sale of intoxicating liquors. He ventured to assert that the Bill would be found to be a pretty good measure in the interests of aU partieß. It would be impossible, he held, to please the extreme temperance reformers, who had by their intemperance an this question prevented reform. The Bill, at any rate, would, he hoped, meet with tho approval of those who really wished reform in the liquor traffio. .The first question to be a3ked wa. whether there was a necessity for this Bill. He beid that there was. The -Act of last year had prov.d defective in some respects. The publio mind was now ripe for remedying those defects, and his opinion was that it would be better for members and the oountry that this question Bhould be Bettled definitely this ses_i.n. Next session other subjeafcs would engage the attention of the House,»and the Government desired to pass the Bill this session. The defects of last year were apparent in thit tha issues submitted to the people were not simple enough. Another defeofc was that by a poll of ono-half, many people did not vote at all, and that required re- j medying. There was another serious defect in last year's Bill, namely, that no provision was made for a national vote, as j the Bill was.confined to localities. There waa only one locality that decided for total prohibition. Some of the temperance advocates declared that if faoilities were afforded for taking a poll for total prohibition the result would have been in favour of thab course, bat that was open to question. He held, therefore, that it waa as well to afford an opportunity for such a poll being taken, and the Government had boen requested to afford that Opportunity both by the liquor trade and by the temperance section of the community. He had every confidence that the Bill would meet with the approval cf a majority of the people. There were three issuts in the Bill, namely, reduction of license., national prohibition and local prohibition. He believed tbat a majority would be in favour of a reduction. He also believed that a majority would be found in come districts for total prohibition, whilst in othera the majority would be against it. By adding the two together ifc would be seen for the firßt time what the opinion of the men and women of the colony was on this important question. It ! had be.n objected that by taking the poll on the Bame day as the genoral election they would be mixing the question up with general politics, but he held that whether the poll were taken oh the election day or on any obher day it muat be mixed up with nm^ral politics. They Bhould also strive to get the largest possiblo number of votes ] either for cr against thiß great reform in tho liquor traffio, End they could never get such a large vote taken on any other day as on the general electi. n day. There waß then the question of expense. The whole of the expense was thrown on the taxpayers, and it would not cost half as much to tako the poll on the general election day as ifc would cost if the licensing elections' were held on a special day. The Government did not hold strong opinions with respect to the election Gt committees, and local knowledge in affairs of this kind was an iDoportsn 1 . factor. If the House' wished to reduce the number on the committees, ifc could bo simply done. The Governmont insisted that the Stipendiary Magistrate should be retained ou the committee as chairman, but be did not desire to take any local representatives from the committee. There were several other amendments in thiß* Bill which were not of such vital importance. He held that bottle licenses had been a curse, and that the sooner power to abolish those licenses was taken the better for all concerned. It was al.o propoaed in the Bill that a majority of a committee should grant conditional licenses, instead of two as formerly. Ho Bhould also be willing to allow four gallons to be sold instead of five. The Government proposed to do away with wine licensee, because in districts where prohibition might le carried a large number of those wine chops might spring up, which would probably sell something stronger than wine in their 6hopa. Thesa who were satisfied with tbe Bill need do nothing to impede its progress, whilst thoae who were opposed to it would do well to meet boldly the defects that existed, and deal with them. He referred to several other alterations made in the Bill, one of which waa that no new Native licensing districts should bo constituted. The Government had also boen aßked to exercise some control over small steamers, whereon a large amount of liquor was sold, snd tbat would be dealt with in committee. Referring to tbe position of clubs, he did not Bee why there should be one law for hotelkeepera and another law for clubs. Any wellconduct.d club would not object to the provisions of this Bill, and he felt cure that although some of the working men's clubs objected to this provision, tho wives, of these working men would not do s*\ Tho Government had been twitted with not being sincere in its desire to pass this Bill, but that waß a charge that should not be lightly made. The Govornment was convinced that the timo wivb ripo for this great question to be dealt with, and it had brought tho Bill down as soon as possible. He hoped that when the Bill got into committee, members would respect the convictions of those opposed to them, and do their beßt to make the Bill a workable measure. Mr M'Nab agreed with Mr Seddon that tbe Bili should not be discussed at any a-reat length oa ita second reading. He should not express an opinion on the Bill at thafc stage, as he was anxious to sco it ,job into committeo without delay. Mr Collins was* as anxious as any man inthe House to discuss the details of the Bill in committee, but tbia was a very important matter. Ifc was quito a eiuestii n vhefcher the Bill was demanded by tbe country. Ifc had been demanded by a .amorous sectior, and Parliament Ind. d.-termined to take the matter up and deal vith it. Referring ta the club question, .c hoped tbat other cubs than those of .-oriiuu* men would be regulated by this Hill, "ll- spoke oa a life-long total ..tainer, bufc he feared that tbey. might till pans intemperate legislation, which ■vould do the ciuafl more harm than good. Cc believed in the majority rulofts soundly s the Premier, l ufc. there were eomo in-tancc-s in which tho rule of the majority

i; was not a just rule. Thia Bill waa .'brought in to satisfy the temperance i.i people, but they would never be satisfied ;' till they got total prohibition. There were many pcints in the Bill which he i Bhould deßire to see amended, but aB he j was anxious to sco the Bill get into committee he should not refer to them at ! preeeaf. ; Mr Hkkh eaid be should like to Eec ; Native districts made prohibitive, and he j should move in committee to that effect. i Mr Saunders waß very much pleased ! with the Premier's speech. He recognised I that the. Premier had met them very fairly j indeed. He objected, however, to tbe constitution of the Licensing Committees, which ha thought wos a serious blot oc the Bill. Ho believed, however, in having the poll taken on tbe came day as the goneral election, Int. he s *w no reason wby the committees should not aleo be elected on that day, and he hope! that the Premier wou^d eeo" his way to niter the Bill in that direct : on, The Hon E. J. Sekbon was pless.d t. s:o that the House had received the Bill aa ifc had done. With respect to Mr M'Nab'a contention, bo asserted tbat an ; amending Bill w.nld take much longer to J discu3s than a consolidating measure. There was a difficulty respecting the committees, as had been pointed out by Mr Saunders, but he could not agree to the proposal to elect the committees on the same day as the general election. This Bill was neither a publicans*' nor a brewers'' Bill, nor was it brought in in the interests of the extreme temperance party. The Bill was, he felt sure, a workable measure, which would settle this important question for a long time-to- come. The Becond reading was then agireed to on the voices, the committal 01. the Bill being set down for next day. mining companies.. The Hon B. J. Seddon moved the second reading of the Mining Companie &■ Bill, explaining that it had been found nect ssary to consolidate and amend the legislation relating to Mining Companies-. Sirß. Stout said he would not oppose the Bill, but he held that a separate Mining Companies Act was not necessary. Motion agreed to. BAVKRTTPTCT. The Hcn-B. J. Seddon moved the secondroading of tbe Bankruptcy Acfc Amendment Bill, which he explained he desired to send to the Statutes Revision Committee. Agreed to. CRIMINAL CODE. The Criminal Code Act Amendment) Bill was committed. Clause 2, age of consent. The Hon R. J. Seddon- moved to strike out the word "fifteen," and to substitute "sixteen." Agreed to. Mr Mills moved a new clause allowing any criminal trial for murder held eince Jan. 1, 1889, to be reviewed. This, he explained, v. as designed to allow the case of Loui. Chemis to be taken. to the Court of Criminal Appeal. Mr Bell objected to thia as being out of order, as it was a clause of another Bill at present on the Order Paper, Mr Joyce ruled that the clause was in order. Sir R. Stout insisted that it was entirely unfair to bring on euch a proposal without notice. Ab to the caße itßelf, he had read the evidence and believed that it was conclusive of tho man's guilt.. The Hon R. J. Seddon eaid that if the new clause wore carried and were objected to by the Legislative Council he would not allow it to imperil the Bil 1 .. The Bill did not wish to d souss the case of j Chemi3 iv any way, but be held that tos propose by Act of Parliament that a new trial should be granted, was subversive of the whole course of English justice. Mesßrs G. W. Russell, Stew aud and Montgomery supported the clause. Mr M'Nab thought that the clans . j should be made retrospective, and should not apply to a special case.. j Mr Mills said be was hot asking for exceptional favours. All that he asked for was to give this man Chemis another trial, and to put him on the same footing as other men in the same position, which the last Parliament was willing to grant him. Sir R. Stout said he had never expected to hear suuh arguments in the House as he had just heard. Mr Montgomery had just told them that every man convicted for the last five years should havo a new trial it the Governor-in-Council thought fit to order it. If that were to be tho case, Parliament wos to be the court, and the decisions of other courts were tobe treated rb waste paper. Mr Hall -said there- was a feeling throughout the colony that Chemis had net had a fair trial. Mr Hogg supported the clause, believing that it was only an act of retributive justice to a man who, in his opinion, and in the opinion of a great many other people, was innocent. Messrs E. M. Smith and Collins snpported the clause. Mr Thompson Baid it was evident they were going to be kept all night discuesing this que.t'on. He therefore moved tbat progress be reported, so that the matter could be discussed in a fuller House. Lost by 34 to 14. Sir Robert Stout said after the division just taken, and tbo attitude of the Premier, he should wash his hands of the whole business and leave the Houße. The Hon R. J. Seddon said Sir R. Stout should have waited till the Premier had expressed an opinion on the matter. It was nofc for* him to exproaß sn opinion as to whether or not the Chairman's ruling was correct. As to Chomiß'a trial, he thought at the time that the crime was an atrocious one, but the Government of the day thought ib wise tc give Chemiß the benefit of the doubt by commuting bis sentence to imprisonment for life. He denied that this was sprung as a surprise on the House, and members had their minis made up on the matter. If the clause were carried to-night theie would still be another opportunity to move for a recommittal of the Bill if it was thought necessary. Ifc might surprise Sir R. Stout j to hoar that he (Mr Seddon) could not see t his way to vote for Mr Mills's clause, but he hoped that members would come to some conclusion on tho subject. The Hon R. J. Seddon eugges .ed that j Mr Button should move to that effect. Mr Mills's claus. was read a second 1 timo by 33 to 16. J Mr Montgomery moved an amendment ' to the effect that the clause should apply I to all pcs sons convicted .sinco 1889 borore ; the Criminal Code Act came into force. I The Hon R. J. Seddon did not approve 1 of the propoeal to open up all ces s that ' wore tried since 18S9. He believed that members had jns _ voted for this clause in ; order that the Chemiß case might be referred to the court to decide whether or not there should be a new trial. He hoped that Mr Mills would accept Mr Button's sugges'i.n. j Mr Mills agre el to do so. I Mr Montgomery's amendment was losb on tho voices. [ M_- Button then m^ved thafc the prisoner Chemi?, now confined in her Majesty's gaol for murder, should have i tho right to apply to the Curt of Appeal for a new trial. ! Carried by 32 to 15. ' ! Mr Bell then proposed that Section 417 of the Criminal Code Act be repealed. Thafc section provided that a prisoner could apueal to the Governor-in-Coimcil. I The Hon B. J. Seddon a_ked Mr Bell not to move tbis amendment, ss he should ask tha committee to oppose it. ' ' After further discu saior, The Houß. J. Seddon promifed to canfctilt the law officers respecting thiaamendmKJit, Hnd Mr Bell withdrew it. Tha Bill was reported with amendment-, . to bo comidered next day. The Houso ro.o afc 1.4,0 a.m. j •-__-l--_M__--.-_IB-l-ill.l--l _ Thoae who uso Ceyli*ado lea will not bo eatisSed v.ith any other brand. — [<_dvt,j 1-eion of "Stars." — Our ,£l9 Jigger, with '94 Duuiop tyres is well finished and up toria'e. Adainp, Cur.iesand Cp.,70, Man-chf-ator Street, Christchu. oh.-— [Advt.l