Provincial Council.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 322, 26 May 1869, Page 2

Provincial Council.

■■ ♦ Tuesday, Mat 25. The Speaker took the chair at 5 o'clock. The following members were present: — Messrs Matson, Knight, J. S. Williams, Jollie, Dixon, Moore, Macpherson, Hall, Fyfe, Lee, Potts, Aynsley, Montgomery, Studholme, Buckley, Ormsby, Hornsbrook, Hargreaves, Brown, Peacock, Hawkes, A. Duncan, T. S. Duncan, W. Williams, Gray, Ken na way, Uelamain, Buchanan, Birch, Rhodes, Maskell, and Wilson. COMMUNICATION. The Speaker read a letter from his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that copies of the resolutions passed by the Provincial Council should be forwarded to the Executive Council by the Clerk. He had brought the matter before the Council, beoause it involved a change from the practice hitherto adopted. He considered that the request of liia Honor was a j ust one, and it the Council had no objection, he would direct the Clerk to forward the resolutions as requested. railway committee. Mr Macpherson asked tor an extension of time until Tuesday next, for bringing up the report of the Railway Committee. An important return had been applied for, but had not yet been furnished to the committee. The extension of time was granted. DEPASTURING LICENSES. Mr Jollie brought up the report of the Depasturing Licenses Committee, which was read. PROVINCIAL EE VENUE. Mr Montgomery asked for an extension of time until to-morrow night, for bringing up the report of the Provincial Revenue Apportionment Committee. The extension of time was granted. RESIDENT MAGISTRATE'S COUKT, LYTTELTON. Mr I?tfe asked the Secretary of Public Works when the vote of this Council for the erection of a Resident Magistrate's C <urt at Lyttelton will be carried out. And contingent upon his answer, to move, " That the correspondence between the Lyttelton Municipal Council and the Provincial Government be laid upon the table." Mr Jollie replied that the site formerly selected for the Resident Magistrate's Court had already been appropriated by the Municipal Council, and it was impossible to obtain it without paying a rack rent for it. The Government declined therefore to erect the court-house until they obtained a suitable site, and until they were certain of having the requisite amount of money at disposal. The Government were alive to the necessity that existed for its erection, and would supply the want as soon as they were able to do bo. Mr Fyfe moved his resolution for the production of the correspondence in question . Mr Hargreaves, in seconding the motion, expressed a hope that the court-house would be erected without delay. The present building was a disgrace to the province. : The motion was put and agreed to. IMMIGRATION. Mr Knight moved the Council into Committee to consider the following resolutions : — "(1) That this Council is of opinion that the present system of Immigration is unsatisfactory. (2) That in the opinion of this Council the following scheme would prove beneficial to the province : — Every immigrant who pays his passage money, shall on arrival in the province, be entitled to select twenty acres of land, and receive a Crown Grant for the same after having been in occupation six mo-iths. Every assisted Immigrant on arriving in the province, shall receive a ticket, which, after having paid his passage money, shall enable him to select 20 acres of land, and receive a Crown Grant for the same, after having been in occup ition six months ; no ticket shall be available to any one but the original holder of such. (3; That his Honor the Superintendent be requested to take such steps during the recess by legislation, or otherwise, as may be necessary to carry out the above resolutions." The hon. member said he need not impress on hon. members the great importance which the subject was to all of them. In fact, he considered that the question of immigration was the most important that the Council, could consider. Jfcie thought that their first duty to consider was, how to colonise their wa,Bte lands. He was surprised that his Honor the Superintendent, in his opening address, didn't

make mention of the unsatisfactory system wbteti ■tfißi now being adopted with regard to immigration, because he thought it must appear to all of them that it was most unsatisfactory. Farmers and agriculturists generally were crying out against tbe present system, complaining that it would have been much better to spend the money laid out in the introduction of immigrants in improving the means of communication throughout, the provincesLjFrom a return laid on the table, it appeared that since March, 1868, the total number of immigrants arriving in Canterbury was 4700, and that the total number of emigrants during the same period was 2700, so that fifty per cent of the immigrants wbjL had been brought out had left the provinceA He knew that all these were not Govern^ ment immigrants. Fifty per cent had left the province by sea, and 25 per cent more had left by land, going to Nelson and Otago. Therefore, the number that remained in the province was reduced to 25 per cent. < >ver £4000 out of the £12,000 set aside for immigration had been devoted to the expenses of departments, so that taking into consideration the number of immigrants that had left the province and the expenses of departments, the cost of bringing out thole who remained amounted to £100 a heaajL If, therefore, a better system could "Sot be adopted, in his opinion they had better do away with immigration altogether, and expend the money in improving the means of communication throughout the province, and so enable the producer to bring his produce more easily to market. He knew, however, that if immigration were stopped, the province would come to a standstill. But the system must be improved, and improved without delay and before the expenditure of any more money in this direction. On looking to the result of tbe advances made to immigrants, he perceived that only one third of the total amount was still owing from immigrants introduced witbin the last .three years. He had nothing to say against this. What it was desirable to do was to nnchor immigrants, as it were, after their arrival in the province. Those who had paid their own passages hitherto were generally a better class of im- . : migrants than those assisted by the Government. They came out at their own free will, whereas the others came to wherever they could procure a passage, and left for the other provinces and the Australian colonies after their arrival. He thought that every inducement should be held out to immigrants, to come and settle amongst us. To ensure the land not being jobbed away, he proposed that no immigrant should receive a Crown grant until he bad been six months in occupation. If the Council was of opinion that this was too short a. period, they could of course extend it. He believed his proposal would be objected to, because it would be an encouragement to clerks and pettifogging grocers, who were not suited for manual labour, to come to the province. In his opinion, they were more likely to get out a better class of .immigrants by the proposed alteration than if they were to continue the system at present in operation. He proposed, also, that 20 acres should be given to any person residing in the province who introduced two immigrants at his . own expense. He also proposed that every assisted immigrant shonld receive eO acres, after paying his passage money. Such a system, he thought, would be attended with great advantage in getting the money refunded which the Government had advanced. The Government might then feel certain that all the money would be refunded to them. He had no doubt it would be urged against his proposition that the system had been tried' elsewhere and had failed. He was aware it had been tried in Auckland and Otago, but there the case was totally different : they had no field to utilise labour. He trusted the last portion of his resolutions ■ would at all events be agreed to, and that the Council would not refuse to go into committee to consider, not altogether the resolutions, but the subject of immigration. Mr Jollie said the Government were of opinion that the resolutions of the hon. member for Lincoln should not go into committee. The hon. member had endeavoured to shew that the present system was unsatisfactory, but ia his (Mr Jollies) opinion, he had failed to prove his case. He stated that 50 per cent, of the immigrants brought out by the Government had left the province, and that the cost of bringing out those who remained amounted to £100 a-bead. A few days ago, he (Mr Jollie) laid a return on the table ,shewing the immigration and emigration at the port of Lyttelton from the Ist January 1868 to the 31st March, 1869. Tbe former amounted to 4717, and the latter to 3719. (Jf the 4714, 1306 were introduced by the Government. He did not know where the hon. member got his figures from when he stated that 75 per cent, bad left the province. Mr Knight said he had not said so. What he meant was, that 50 per cent, had left by sea. He estimated the departures overland at another 25 per cent. Mr Jollie said that many of those put down as immigrants in the return only passed up and down the coast. With regard to the a-sertion made by the hon. member that the present system of immigration was .unsatisfactory, he might state that the arrangements made by the Government had received the sanction of the Council. No motion had been made with regard to them. He thought they were working very well. No free passages were given to others than ploughmen and farm labourers. With regard to single women, free passages were given to those of certain ages. Considering all things, he thought the Government got as good a class of immigrants, both male and female, as they could expect. Of course,' there were some exceptions to which he need not further allude. Every assistance was given by the Government to parties here to bring out their friends, so that on their arrival they would have a home to go to. With regard to the proposition to give twenty acres to each immigrant, it was hardly necessary to say mor* than that the effect of

inch a course would be almost virtually to repeal the land regulations. And what would be the result ? In ninety -nine ■ eases out. • of . every one hundred the land would be placed in the hands of speculators, and sold for what t would fetch. • Such a course would interfere with the land fund, while at the same ime it would not be productive of benefit to hose brought out. The immigrant . would lave no money with which to cultivate his and, and the consequence would be that he ivould have to part with it. ' He was in Auckand in the year 1860, when the forty -acre tystem was in operation. It was well known low that system had worked. In a great nany instances persons never saw their land, \ md sold their right to it merely for what it arould fetch. He would oppose the motion 'or gomg-intocommittee. Mr Delamain also opposed the motion. )ne great reason for opposing the system iroposed by the hon. member for Lincoln was his: they did not want small farmers: what hey wanted wbb farm labourers. They had jot too many small farmers already. In iverypart of the province they found men who lad scarcely bread toeat rushing into land, and n nine cases out of ten it was to their detrinent. He believed that some little alteration nras required in the present system of immigration. For example, they should have aproper igent at home to -select really good immigrants.' The great difficulty in getting good mmigrants resulted from the fact that good 'arm labourers had nut sufficient money to mable them to leave their native village. Mr Hall said he he did not altogether tgree with the resolutions, but he hoped the Council would agree to go iuto committee to ionsider them. He would support the motion, n order that the matter might be fully dis:ussed.. The hon. Ebnest Gray did not think it rorth while wasting the time of hon. mem>ers in discussing the resolution, in committee. the effect of such a system as that proposed rould be to inundate the country with small lolders. He would oppose the motion for {oiDg into committee. Mr Brown supported the motion for going nto committee, in order that the Council night be in a position to state whether the (resent system of immigration was correct or tot. It was a matter of such great impurtmce' that the House should go into committee, There it could be thoroughly discussed, and (rhere. suggestions could be made by hon. nembers. Me might almost say that immigration was the saltation of the country. The matter was not only being agitated in >ther provinces, but also by the General government itself. In his mind, the present lystem was most unsatisfactory. Mr Peacock hoped the Council would go nto committee. He had no doubt that runlolders were opposed to their runs being cut ip. He had no sympathy whatever with hem. . In America, the land was sold at a easonable figure, and a good class of immigrants were attracted to the country. Me rould.go further than the hon. member for ancoln, and suggest that immigrants should lave 40 acres given to them. With respect o the present system of immigration, he hought it required some alteration. If for to other purpose than that of ventilating the übject, he trusted the Council would agree to o into committee. Mr Kennaway said the question was a lost important one, and he hoped the House rould go into Committee upon it. The other vening, the House voted very large reserves. Ie should like to know how they were going o bring these reserves into profitable use uaess they introduced immigrants. Mr Montgomery said the lion, member for lakaia hoped the House would go into Coraaittee, but ha was aware that when the louse went into Committee it approved of he principle of the resolutions. Mr Hall said such did not necessarily ollow. Mr Montgomery .said that when the louse went into Committee, it was not to lter the principle but to arrange details. t was open to members to discuss the mater without going into Committee, and to state heir reasons for or against the resolutions, s the case might be. His hon. friend (Mr ollie) had shewn that the statements of the on. member for Lincoln with regard to the umber of Government immigrants who had aft the province, were fallacious. It was hewn that a great number of those who rrived at Lyttelton as set forth in the reurn were travellers from province to province, 'he hon member for Lincoln had shewn no rounds for his statement that 50 per cent of he immigrants had left the province. If the Council went into Committee, the Governnent would not consider it a censure upon hem. He would point out that the matter ras under the consideration of the Revenue Apportionment Committee, and would thereore suggest that the motion should c withdrawn until the report of that comrittee was before the House, when the hon. lember could take whatever action he deemed lost desirablu. He would support the Goernment in resisting the motion for going lto committee at the present time. Mr Knight said he was quite prepared to nd the Government opposing him, and he ras not surprised to hear the Provincial ecretary say that he had not made out his ase. He was only astonished that that hon. lember didn't say that his case was a most uerile one. The hon. member had said that [nee March 1868, 1306 immigrants had been ltroduced by the Government. He might orrect him by saying that 451 assisted immirants had been introduced since March, 1868. Ie trusted the Council would agree to go lto committee. The motion for going into committee was ttt and declared to be carried. The Council divided, with the following BBult : — Ayes 14 — Messrs Hawkes, Knight, Potts, loore, J. S. Williams, Maskell, Kennaway, Irown, Macpherson, T. S. Duncan, A. )uncan, Peacock, Hall, and Hornbrook. Noes 16— MesBru Aynslay, Lee, Jollie, lontgomery, Studholme, Gray, Wilson,

Ormsby, Birch, Matsou, Buckley, Delamam, Buchanan, W. Williams, Rhodes, and Dixon. THE LAND FUND. Mr Dixon moved f That this House take steps' to allocate 25 per cent of the land fund arising from each district to the public works of the district from which it arises to the main roads leading to that district, and generally to the larger public works which are of a special benefit to that district. That other 25 per cent be allocated for emigration purposes, and that such refunds as arise from this fund be again applied for the same purpose/ The hon. member said he would be willing to withdraw the motion if he was assured that the matter would be considered by the Provincial Revenue Apportionment Committee, so that it could again be brought forward during the present session. Mr Montgomery said that the Government could not pledge themselves to bring forward the question, but it would be for any hon. member to do so. Mr Dixon obtained leave to withdraw the resolution. ELECTORAL ROLL. Mr Dixon moved "That this House deferentially petition the General Government to take steps to make the Kate Roll of the province the Electoral Roll for the province." Mr Montgomery moved the previous question, which was carried. gp GOLDFIEI/D REWARD. Wlr Potts moved " That in the opinion of tltt Council it is desirable that Government should offer a reward of not less than £-200 for the discovery of a payable gqldfield within the boundaries of the province.^ The hon . member hoped that the Councuwould agree to pass the resolution. Everybody must be aware of the great advantages that jrould result to all classes by such a disco ven3 Mr Hawkes seconded the motion. "Several experienced miners were at present engaged in prospecting, and there were hopes that a goldfield would be discovered. tMr Wilsoit supported the motion. He would suggest that the reward be extended to the discovery of a coalfield, which would be productive even of far greater advantages to the province than a goldfield) Mr Delamain supportsd^the motion. He was under the impression that a coalfield had been discovered already, and they might have some one applying for the reward next morning. Mr Jollie said the Government were not opposed to the motion. On the contrary, they would be happy to announce the reward if the Council agreed to offer it. The motion was carried nem con. WASTE LAND. Mr Kennaway moved, " That a Return be laid on the table showing the amount of the Waste Land remaining unsold within a distance of ten miles on each side of the Great Southern Railway, from Christchurch to the Rakaia." The motion was agreed to. BOADS ORDINANCE. On the motion of Mr W. Williams, the Council went into Committee on this Ordinance ; Mr J. S. Williams in the chair. The bill was advanced a stage, and progress was reported, with leave to sit again next day. COUNTIES. Mr Buckley moved for the discharge of | the order of the day standing in his same. His reason for doing so was, that he believed the question would be dealt with by the committee now sitting. The order was discharged accordingly. THIRD BEADING. The Fencing Bill, 1869, was read a third time and passed. The Council adjourned at 10.50.