The Alleged Breaches of the, Land Act.

Otago Witness, Issue 1762, 29 August 1885, Page 4 (Supplement)

The Alleged Breaches of t he, Land Act.

i i/i-i X F ?°. M pUR,OWJf 1 P l OBBESPONDES J T»)^ i • , "\}l '' l .. ■'''■ ','// '.""w^Bi.Wcia'pH'f' August 21. < The, followiri^arje tlie jiotes' ok evidence, taken. he-, fore -the Waste" Lands on ,the .alleged breaches ' of seotio'll.' 67,;0f ,tiie .Load Act of ,1877, Amendment Act 1882. •.— ;,.,,'( , 1 „•, ;., , , '„■ Qp Friday, July> J^*e |i?9^i. ;Mr, Campbell was ' examined, Mr ]p'Callagliaa being, qhairman. ; , i The '.Chaitnian : You 'are a' representative of the ,, firm '6f Eobe'rfc Campbell aUd Sofas ?^I am managing "J director of the corHpany. " ' ' ! '•' •' •■ < Are you aware 1 of- the 'general tmn*actiona of the company with/eferenpe t3jtransfer,of 4eases, &c, in Otago ,?-f Yes. f; ' , ,; „ „ •■ Sou are iware of leases, held by , the company previous £0 fcHe Lniid' A&t ' Amendment Act 01 1882 being passed?— Yes. '" >• ' 'v - '', ' ! I dare say you are riwareiof -artyltransnctioh's since •with ,reference,to any,trausfer.of] leases ?— Yes. „ 1 Mt J.M'Kenzie: Will you state^the area of country your 'firm Held at the passing 'iof tl\e t Lapd Act of 1882?— J-coulfl'ribt tell you exactly. The official re- r .cords give it at 608,997 i acres.- / ' Do you meanactual leaseholds.?— Yes.; leaseholds.. 1 Are you referring, to .Canterbury,, or Otago? — I, ■sliould think that would'bp about^he total area. > You are'aware that since tliat time ' a large property has-tSeefrrW-lefc or • 're-sold \>s the Crown ? — Do jpou refer: to university rttns'?> '■'•■' , No, all sorts.- Take;this ireaof 6<5,76Q acres ; your 1 firni,djd not,p;urcha§9,t)>at.again?-ri{'Oo ' . 1 .. ,I).' You are awarp'itiwas jiurchased by; C. W.jClSfford? -fYes. '",' ', ' " ', . "/\ .',,-,' 1 Mr CoV'dn :" 'Canterbury?— Wo; "Ofcago. I -Mr J. M'Kenzie : -There is Wportiou of the area' (3! ,030, ' acres) .sold .to- W. I>. Glifford?— Yes ; anda pontion to. MrjA.C. Begg (12,070 acrec). , ,;.,) Do you ine^m at Blacks ?— Yes .,. „ - i , ' You'W aware ,thefe'e , sale's took place' of 114,078 aci-'eg ?— No. *There is'aijotKer pbrtlon, the unJver- 1 sity reserves. v'That 608,000 acres include 170,000 adres of'uriiveraity reserves i- >. '• 81,5G0 acres have been respld ?(— Yes> ; ; Of, tha,t 22,058 aei;es liaye been sold to Mr Begg ?— Ye's ; but cannoi assume that to be perfectly correct. , I must take your statement, '" ' ' ' ' • J It •is taken from ' official records. When did your firm give-up' possession to 1 these bhree persons ; or I .will pufj.it ii\ this \vay ; In whpsej possession are these runs ? — The owners. „ ' x . Mr liolleston : Are thfey the ' owners ? — Yes ; subject to arrangements. , Mr J. M'Kehzie:; Will i-yo'ii. tell us^-vvTaat those' arrangements are ?— I cannot tell you exactly what the arrangenients'are connected, w^th Clifford's. Does' your firm 1 ruh f any" ' 'slieep 'oil these lands at the' present -time? —^Yes.! •<. '. . ■'"> Can you teiron what terms yn\iilease from Clifford and Begg?— Could, nojt, say, 'for certain, b,ut believe tlie company rents from them. Then there would be no changeirf the management of these stations? — No. '' ' ■_ Are they still carriedon as stations of your firm ? — Cannot state that exactly, 1 . „j . • '•>'•' You say, your, company rents froni these people ? . — I am not sure what the'arrangeme'nt is. As to the London arrangements I cannot tell you, What EpsiMori does Begg hold in connection with the firm ? — Htfkeeps_ the books. Would lie be able to give an. account of the arrangements, seeing, that, he keeps the books? — I think sq. ' , • You of your owfr knowledge cannot state what' tliose' arrangements are ? — No. ' ■ ' You have- in no way diminished the number of sheep i during that time. — No. Mr Lake : I think some of these lands do not come within the scope of this inquiry at all. An n.i-pa of 610,000 acres is given, bu't'out of this there are 81 ,600 acres which this committee have no right to consider 1 ' at all. There f 8 another .place of 100,000 acres in a similar position. Mr J. M'Keiusie : That does not follow. Mr Lake : They do not .come within the scoj>p of this inquiry ; they, are university reserves. The last question -put to witness was whether he had not 'reduced the number of sheep. If this inquiry is to r do any good we ought to eliminate from it matters irrelevant. ' ;- The Chairman : There is no use entering into the questiqu of university reserves just now. Mr A. O. Begg examined. ■ ' ' The Chairman: Mr 'Begg, Will you please inform the committee your -bceupation ?-r-I am a sheep farmer and station ageiit. Are you acquainted with the business transactions of Messrs Robert Campbell and Sons in connection with their leases in Ofagb'ahd Canterbury?— Yes. • Are you aware of the quantity of Crown lands which they held in leases previous to the passing of "The ' Land, Act 1877 Amendment 'Act 1882?— Well, I have not get'the exact figures here. You are aware of the leases held by them ?— Yes. Are you in a position to.hjfprm us as to transactions that occurred since the passing of that act in regard to leases 'and transfers of leases' to Campbell and Sons?— Yes. ' 1 1 Mr Reid : You say you know the number of leases he,ld by Messrs Campbell and Sons since the xwssing of the act of 1882. Does this list, which purports to be a return of pastoral lands in the Otago laud district in occupation of Campbell and Sons (Limited) at the time of the passing of the aforesaid act, correctly show the number and acreage held ?-r-I do liot think, it includes the .whole of them: There are one or two Southland Jeases not included, but practically it is correct as far as it goes ~ This is Otago land?— Yes. I believe'it ihpludes • all Otago land. 'This list shows they hold 388,788 acres Crown lands 'and 170,000 acres university endowments. , , You say you cai\ also tell the committee the transfers that have been made since that, date. Does this list; which purports to lie a return of those in the • occupation of R Campbell and Sons (Limited) iafe the time of the passing of the aforesaid act,, which have been re-leased, how divided, to whom leased, &c, show the transactions correctly ?— I understand it, has been supplied trom the' Land Office. I expect it -will be rfghft. Of course it ' is" a long. list to lceep 1 in'memory. I cannot vouch for the correctness of particulai-8, but believe it is corrjeci;. "., , r, '■ 1 , . j ijn order to give the committee some Mot as to thpanipunt' of, lands held by Messrs Can i t ,bel I and .Syns, c ! 6uld'y6u'give approxinuire'lvthe acreage held ' by'vourself in 'pastoral leases' P^Somewhere about 20,000 acres. ./ >' ' r . 1 , „ „Thafc isjinyom'own name ?■— Yes. I« see there'is a long list of runs, here in liiyjiiame, but theacreages are small. They consist of one run, which is cut un into sub-divisions.' ( „ '' ' ' ' Do you hold any pastoral lands in conjunction with' other persons ?— No. ' '11 ■ • .ii All your lands are, held in .your own name?r-Yes . Do you act asattorneyipr.'agfjiit for Messrs Campbell and Sons ?— Yes. I act as attorney in some ' matters, and in station .management I am geue'ral' 1 manager of thfelr business. •'''•'' ■" ■ I / .. Do you, also 'hold a power -of 'attorney for Ohas " Gljfford?— Yes. ■ , lt , , '1,11 ,1 ■•"' I ,And do you act ij) ( tjie same way for him ?— Yes , Do you also' act for Walter Clifford ?— Yes." I hpld ,a power of attorney'fi'om both dt these gentlemen Could' yoii tell Us 'roughly, from 1 'ybur' knowledge of:the company's'affairs, the slieepHJarryirigoftnacitv of ithese 388,788 aqres ?— Woll, r it,.is rather a.difficuft! questiqn td answeri ..There, is; a large, amount , of freehold land owned Ky the company'.jwh'ic'h'carries a large 'propdrtton 1 bf HlW'tHbik* Tn f) tffe 'wmte^a large portion of the sheep are on the -Id'w- country' and'al great deal.of'this (high -country (th'ati alluded to by the questioner) is not utilised at all. But can you not state generally what is the carry-

,me capauH>Y;O^ I the! leasehold land ?— Td is very dim- , cult' to telt llie' r c'iil ! ry^ng;'c 1!lp'1 !lp'a l city 6f,itu'e' laiid \vllen |you at'e'slmpiy'us'ing it 'kl3 summer Country, and" nave practlcwlly.noistookion) it ih the'jivinter.or half' lof the year, .i&uph <of . it carries no sheep ,at all. You usually, work; it \yith the ,f qeeljiold property ?— Yes. I should "say, 1 roughly',, that it would' 'carry about one shec&'to three or. three^anH a-hatf J kcres'.' That Is -the high country helil'by-Meesrs Campbell l and Sons-.' ' -.. >'t ■" i\>\<r I ■;!■)!•<! T !<n,. Tlien do',jfeu, ; Juiqw of, -Jffturo.j own [knowledge, whether the lauds, ( are,, now parrying and hfl^je been, for the' past year, the full number of tlieif carrying capacity ys-i-Th'eilands have been work'e'd'tb the utmost 1 ' exteiit'of their carrying capacity'alwfeyfli ' 1 • ' 1 Then the number of sheep showil in • the • sheep.I returns >vould|Slio>V',thij'i;eal Q(irrying .capacity of the lands P— Yes-'-JBufc there are no. returns, whicli discrl- v miiiate between freehold and leasehold.' It •ifl t "g"Wen 'In the ri ret'('ir'n'fbr I 'i«Bs' taßt a 8 '288^o4 !1 sheepi and f0rH584'289;217 ahkefy this, jidu say, cm 1 ' braces the. total* number,«of' sheep'iOn.freehold'and leasehold lands ?tt Yes.. „ j,,,,, ,_,,;,_ , <\^ . . ;( Andyou.Cftjiapli tell fch£ fipntm*tJ*e the numjieriof sheep carried on the lands, held on,l i e,as€i?— Well, as I tell you, for a ityrge, portion of the year tjiere are no sheep carriell «in p'arts'o'f the leasehold. it is im- ' possible to give any direcf'evidence'.ih'a' csse like' this , where you'i -have : to . work ! fch'e'. leaseliold with freebold, and'move the sheep fro.ra one toifche other, and .it is impossible to say how many-.aheep the pastoral country .would carry by itself, ' . Well, you can form a 'pretty good c-sti mate,' could you not, of whatffreeliold laiids you haye'iafofc. Taking a rough survey^f the blocks, you can myroughly the amount of ishpep .to , the aci-e? — WeIUS can say this, that the hilly country worked by iteelf would not carry anything like the stpek that it -would. if worked with the -ldiy country. •'■>"< !l And it would cawy a sheep to every tliree"or four and ftThalf acres ?—^lles; ' That is a high estimate ; but you cant, be isure ftiiout that, because, if tliere,iß a', severe wdater the high .country will not carry anything .like what it would if the winter was mild. What quantity of the .land is freehold an^ what ! leasehold as contained in the first schedule y-^Olhis is l allthe leaseliold, lithirik^ ' i[ n i r - . The 388,788 acres i^ all leasehpldP-r-^Yes.. '', < ' Aud do you includeiinyour.eßtimate of a,sl»eep to three acres the whole -of that l^ind ?—lt? — It is a i'ough estimate. Probably in sopie yews the land would not carr\ra*l»eepto'ttve-acre's.'' ' ' ■ " What do you say is the- amount of. > land h^ld by yourself?— About 1 2Q,000to2 ) 3,Q00acres.,(.r.> 1 „ ~,v And ,at what, <^o you , estimate .ji^epp-carryingj capacity of it ? — About r sii or seven thousand^ ' , Sheep?— Yes.' ' ' •' ' ' -'•-■' "t" t ■ How many stteep have -you on it ?— Well, that^e 1 en this and other country, .there are'very- few sheep on it now. Probably seven or eight thousands , I ' Are the^Ueep on it your .own,? — No.- • , ( ; Whddottiey belong to'?— To .Messrs li. Campbell < fiud Sons. I may cxplnm with 1 regard t6"'fehis land, . that it was a-pieee'of land 'adjoining the Gallow'fty '' runleasedin 1883. The'Go^ernment'decided'hdt to ! sell thelease[,offit,in 1883. „T he .country is very , rabbjby, and_ the lea«e of tbat,eounfcrv was not sold, and was no f t occupied. ' We wer.e'threalened with an inundatiori'o'f rabbits from it, 1 and It was of no' use while this linoebupled 'trying to keep flown the rabbits, on the adjoining 1 country. 1 So Messrs .Campbell Sons got permission to* use 'it for the year simply, for keeping the rabnifs upon it now. At the end of that year the lease was put up to auction. ■ • !l By whom ? — By the Government. There were no buyers. I attended the j sale, ( and- j| bought tho country in my own nairi^; because I thought I could make/it pay, and: in 'order to prevent what would otherwise have happened and beenagreati evil to the surrounding country, in, the; shape of rabbits. I bought it, and since then I have, made a, temporary arrangement with Messrs 'Carhp'bell and Sons to pay , me for it for'grazing sheep. '>•*•• ' ' You refer to. the 'whole country. ' This, 1 twenty thousand acres ? — Yes. Had I not bought it it would have been unoccupied. , „ s ,-•-,, What rent do you pay for it ?— Well, between £500 and LBOO. ' ' ' " ■ ' ' ' ' That is what 'you pay yourself ? — Yes. ' '' '' '"' ' What are the .terms for the grazing of sheep ?— There is no agreement between us except that I am to be paid a profit on my renf . . t \ , , Then there is no contract or agreement — that is, they do not pay you so much an acre ?— No • there is no written arrangement at all. ■ '' ' Well, but I suppose you keep some soft of account ? — Yes. In reference, to this rent ? — Yes. And is it returned among the company's arrange-t ments for the yenr ? — Yes. ' ' In whiit you hn\ c said how 'does, it appear in the company's accounts for the year ?— lt appears as rent paid me for this country for 6He 3 r ear. What ( is the exact amount ? — Somewhere under £600, aud the arrangement is terminable ,atia- day's notice. ' ' '' ' t '. ' l ' Practically the' company pay the rehfarid a Ufctlo over to you?— They pay me'the rent and x a little over; yes. , >'',', Could you sfa^e the .exact amount paid you< in rent? — I do not remember the exact amount, 1 What does it post you for maniiging' the land? — Well, I do not' manage 'it. The 'sheep on it are managed by Messrs Campbell and Sons* Then, practioally it costs you nothing for the management of the land ? — I am under'obligations as a pastoral tenant tp keep down the rabbits. Although I do not manage the land at present with my own stock, I am under obligations the same as all pastoral tenants in regard to taxation' and other nmtters to that piece of country. And beyond that amount, what country rlo you hold Some freehold?— l hold a considerable amount in a different district. Are you aware, as attorney for Messrs Clifford! of the acreage of leasehold held" by them?— lf you will' allow me to see the list, I can tell you. (LtSokiiia- at the list), Mr Charles Clifford has 60,760 acres, and Mr,W. Clifford 31,031 acres. . . , Now, are you aware whether the company has any arrangement .with Messrs Clifford with regard to the agistment of sheep ? — I am not aware of ''any, and I hold a power of attorney for Messrs Clifford. Messrs Campbell and Sous are at present running sheep , on the country for the Messrs Clifford, ' , You are not, aware of any arrangement ? — No. I have instructions from Messrs Clifford that Campbell's sheep are to be allowed to run there. And you are not to run them off as trespassers ?— I No. - ' Does it not strike you as being peculiar Messrs Campbell and Soiib' sheep being allowed to run on another man's country v ithout any arrangement ?—? — I say I do not know of any arrangement.' It does not strike me as being peculiar at all. It 'is done everyday in all civilised countries. In the neighbourhood of Wellington here I suppose j'ou can obtain a paddock for a horse if you pay for it. But, gener.illypeople know something: about these things. What, they are to pay you. know. We have not heard anything about, the payment, yet,. Do you make out the sheep returns tor Campbell and Sons ? —No ; they are made out by the station manager. I get copies of t Item. Then you say distinctly that' t.herte is no arrangement, for agistment ot these sheep. You -have not parted w ith any of .your interest in that country ?—? — Not the slightest*. Mr J. M'Ken'zie: The authority to purchase on behalf ot Messrs Clifford 'enn'i'e 'from London. To purchase a run ? — Yes. • ■ When you ,pureht*sed in your name was it your intention to settle on the country yourself? — I purchased it, because there were no ot!her buyers, What wife your intention at the tinie? — Well, I cannot give evidence as to my- intention's. ' This happened three years 'ago. l I.airi prepared to give evidence as to facts. ; ,'• , • „.t. . „ i,, You did not purchase the Galloway run ■ for the purpose of allowing Mc-ssis Campbell to run their shefip on it ?— No. ' , ."'/"' How much freehold have Messi's Campbell got'by these sales? — Notia'great deal as far>as' I know. " ' Messrs Campbell and Sons have 70,000 ocreain the neighbourhood of these lands-?— Yes. „* , 1 How much . freehold at Galloway $ — Not very much; about 700' or 800 acres.' ' ' ' ;'/ Tl 'And at Stiltioh Peak?— About 'thirty 'thousand acres'. ;■ 1 i. . . • ■>;> <- * , 1 At Otakeike?— About 20.00P acre.s. n ., \. , . t , • Then the sheep' you BttLt-e- w,ere, grazing partly on leased country and partly on freehold at Station Peak and at Otakeike ? — At both places, and ou all Campbell and Sons'/properties. 1 1 !' ',' \ {J ! '•'( You State that thpre ia not- very much- -land, at Galloway ?^Not very ninch. A * *' "' ' ' . lls thai 800 "acres 'superior 'tp' 'any 1 of the' country there ?-^lfe is the' best couritryff.here\!" • '1' ••'*''< "' -'• < ,a'hq; sheep returns sti&w 69,000 10m the Galloway, station ?- r jYes f ] . („ „ „,,,, ,1t..,,,,, 1t ..,,, , .;;. c ' . 'How many of .this t Q9,ooft are' on' the 'leasehold,-, 's^e'ing'tnat yofi have'Hflfc goti'OOp a'cres'ot freehold J-r-' iWell, there' ma/'oe aiS 'timesitf.OOO 6ti the 1 freeh'eJlaV ' During the shearing time there have been mobs of 12,000 on the freehold.

At»jeu m ot bmiiid, giye, a. return -of the shfep), yo'ukee'p" on ireenolaand leasehold land ? — VfrtU> J ou cah-efetiiniate'it'i-y^Wy. •'''' ' '. ■<<■">■■/•• '••°'i 1 Were there-288,'345 shfeep' for'lßS3, and 289,427.f0n 1881, given id oiirpastoral larids ?— That ia the;M-hole. number of.<el»efip ,o)Yned by Messrs ,CanipbelUj\nd l; Sons, It iii^ude^ sjieep py.bo^h leasehold and Jirpe-, hold land. / *• "■'■ „ .',-/_'-"" ' " ' ' ( ' Wiaf'iis 'th'e' total- 4 number 1 on leaWs -aha pn.mie University leases as well ?— The university laiids .at' Burwood and'JtJbnmore.-and pttrtbfl the JJind at BuVwood is jUnivai-sitvJHild'.ioi'! j ,i, i ,v/, ; , „ ..,■•)}' ' Mr, Cowan-: •„W ere i theae,"Raymentsrof.'rent,p;by Messrs ClifforA mmie '03' thfani' to 'the' Government or through the booHs, onCampbell.aud sons?— One amount of rent — the firkt dne^-was jJii-.d trom Messrs Clifford -through the Union Bajnk, and la.tterly it lias been paid through Messrs Campbell' aiid Sons. •' ' Mr Kitfleston : Do'you kndwme Bl'Keiizie'fclause ? —X&6.""'' ' '' ' ! "*■ '* ' ll! -"V'i >) ui'inu -n HaVe you'any'fefcatem'eiTft t6'mkke'as 'to -the wovkiii]* ' of the clause;; "as 'toite Effect generally on tne shedp interast,)aiid-itß'.gißneral ( e£feDt?-^il can: stjite. pretty' well Ijhe leflect; . it. p. ln |188^.,betqre'the .passing' Of tlie , Act", ofi/, 1882, ;the're was ';aj large sale 'of land,' at Otago. at Syliich" y tnei-b was'gbod i'ompebitioti. j; There was in 1 ninny cases a rent paid •whicn' | 'was' r ove'r'the i upsec 1 pricei i Next year; also] there Was a large -sale' of land, and at. that . sale ,there was very little competition., ,'Soraeof tlie, doun^ry.was not bought at all. aud yci^ allowed to?,*? idle for a'eonsidetrtble times, and 'most of It that' was Sold only feranghttthe upset pricfc'. 1 "Ai a' 'fact I know that a'lafge -aiea iof fc6untry"to the westward of Otago .was -not occupied partly. on 1 account of, this, and, partly on account oft- the uncertainty of tenure the pastoral leases gave, because country is very rabbity, and requires a lar,ge amount' 'of 'expenditure, and it'wo'rild not' pay any hia'n to' go 1 to expense; 1 I ( fteliete a .very'greatr deal of that could find occupiers if tliere were no,restricMonß. v >J, ; Where?— From ithe Wakatipu tQ"Mavora('apd,to, the , westward. . A.veKy great. deal of ithat pnopcu-, pied countryihas been 41 source of e.xpensejtp^the! Government,' who' have had, -to '.keep the 'rabbifs down, 6r 'make a 'p'retenee,'of' keeping 'them down. Messrs Camplsell and 'Sans have' beeh 'paid- a !goo&deal for keeping the. rabbits 'down in themeighbour-, hood of Burwood. .'<.-."!., , : , Can you give the, sura approximately ?— Jhe year before last, £soo was paid -in .this 1 way, and £50p last year, and for the presenc'^snear an 'arrarigemerit has ' nofc TJeenl niade.' ' I have not tiie-' Kas't; aoiibt'but that this clause has bad the effect 1 of damaging,' the 1 ' revenue from. pastoraUeasee to a very great ex(snt. Has it'h'ad the enjeetfof increasing the number, ,^f, ocpupants ? — I do.nofc 'tb,inlt so ;t; t I camnot say ipositiy,ely,|/Most, pf the high country would nev6r do for anything bdt merino, sheep, .and the 1 number of people 'who would' 'take' that etfuntry 131 therefore limited." "A- grdafc deal if' it '6an only,, tie .worked in large blocks, sunimanaind winter. vrorked together,, , Mr Pulton : In describing this country, I under, stand you to meaiLthe country wlu'ch in "the winter 1b unfit for keeping sheep life's v , the sheep must be cleared off in May.. ' , , j ,<; ;• . . . In consequence of snow ?—3feß.? — 3feB. . • .' Mr Smith: l)'o you hot consider that thisM'Kenzie felauqe of the act has been broken— as to. the arrange- 1 mentl with ' Messrs Campbell and Sons|!for instance? —It cannot, preteiidi to 'understand this clause. If you were.tp look Into bh.e meaning of it you -would hnd. it very difficult to, understand. I question, whether the reputed authpr qf the clause understands it.' ' ~ '' n ' , ,■' ' '' But 1 that is not the- question.- •' The question' is whether. you think it has Ibee'n broken? — lam not going to give an opinion on that. _ ' ';.-,■. 1 Do you not think you .lyere breaking it yourself when you allowed Messrs .Campbell and 3ons to run sheep on these lands? — dertainlynotl'Hadl thought, so, sir, I should not have done it. Mr J. M'Kenzie : You state that the year after the passing of the Act of 1882, at a sale of land in Dunedin, there was not much competition ?— No ; there was not. ■ if, j 1 ' And you attribute,that,to the M'Kenzie clause ?— Partly. ' ■ '', '■ . ' Do you not think the rabbits had something to do with it ?— No. The rabbits were as bad in 1882 as in ' 1883 Probably the worst year,of all was 1878. 1 • That may have been so in the, southern, portion of Otago ? — No ; central. • , , ' „ ' , There was no competition for these lands you pur- . chased for Messrs Clifford 7-^No. -•' -' ' ' ' • And you got them at the upset price ?—? — You say the effect' of the clause was not to increase the number of occupiers ?— I can only give my opinion. Ido not,think>it,did. Ha9it not increased , the occupancy in the case of Messrs Campbell and Sons? — Yes. „ Arid might it 'not have the same effect in otherpases ?— Possibly. ' ' : •• When the matter comes before the Waste Lands Committee Mr John M'Kenzie is to move-^,'.' That it is the opinion of this committee, -from the evidence'. before ii— (l) Thaj; the spirit of, the last section of 1 The Land Act 1877 Amendment Act 1882 is being evaded", [and the 'intention of the Legislature ' to prevent the monopoly 'of large areas of pastoral , country is.being defeated;bya system of dummyism, and this committee would recommend that the Government should provide against the same by further legislation. (2) That the Govei-nment' should cause further inquiry to be made by the land boards with a view to put a stop to the evasion of the land laws and the sybtem of dummyism:"