TAUPO TOTARA TIMBER COMPANY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 15553, 7 September 1912, Page 10

TAUPO TOTARA TIMBER COMPANY.

SUGGESTED SALE OF RAILWAY,

PETITION FOR, CONCESSIONS.

SPEECH BY SIR JOHN FINDLAY.

(Peb United Press Association.)

WELLINGTON, September 6.

Tho adjourned hearing of tbo Taupo Tolara. Timber L'ompajiy's petition, asking for tho right to extend its'existing railway and for certain other concessions was resiiuied yesterday before a special committee, of wliicn Air Anderson was chairman. The proceedings commenced with thu' reading of the petition proper, petitions in support; mid petitions in objection. Tho principal petition iu support came from settlors in Jiast Taupo, and tho principal objections Iroin thu_ Kotorua Chamber of Commerce, the Wellington Trades and Labour Council, and certain Natives. Sir John Findlay represented tho Taupo Company, Mr 13lnir To lieu Hon and certain other Natives, Mt A. K. Graham the Taii|)o Railway League, and Mr C. 13. Collins tho Wellington Trades and Labour Council.

At the outset Mr Collins submitted certain preliminary objections in regard to the petition. Tho first paragraph of Iho petition could only be given clfect to by a private bill, and the requirement of the, llouso in respect io private bills had not been fulGllcd. Secondly, ho submitted that the petition was not justified in coming Io Parliament as a first rosort, Thirdly, he objected on the grounds that tho petition was not pno for tho committee to deal with, because it contained a matter of policy, and no subordinate committee could pronounce judgment on n matter of policy. Sir John Findlay said the objection was a noycl ono. ,Ho had never heard a similar ono before. Tho members of tho committee knew quite well that it was established practically to inquire into matters of this kind, The petitioners were not asking for a private bill, and any action taken would have to be a Government action. Tho objection was overruled. '

. Sir John Findlay, in outlining the potitioners' case referred to tho petition which was lodged las? year. That petition asked for Iho right to purchase 200,000 acres of Native land on the distinct uhdorstimding' that it was-to bo cut up and sold within a. certain time. The petition also asked for an oxtension of its lino On tho petition as a whole tho committee recommended that Iho whole question should bo allowed to stand over, and that in the moantimo full inquiries should be mndo as to what was Iho best method of eounciiing the country round Lake Taupo with the existing railway service. The present petition differed materially froni that submitted last year in ono respect, and ho would refer to this later. Sir, John went on to .speak at length as to tho company's history, tho greater part of which was before the public last year. Ho emphasised that, the company" is purely a New Zealand concern. Alluding to its financial position he said the company was not coming to Parliament as a bankrupt or insolvent concern. lie also explained how the shares of the company luiil been issued, ami staled that there was no prospect of ordinary shareholders getting any dividends, or even their own money back. At i tho present time tho company employed 250 men, and since it started it had paid £352,000. In 12 years it- had paid £79,000 in railway freights, and in taxes, plant, machinory, etc., no less than £223,000. Altogether tlie sum of £654,000 had been spent by tho company. He ' referred _ to the company's existing railway, described i.ts construction, and quoted rcjwrUs to show how it could bo convened into a track suitablo for heavy traffic. " The compan.v, does not - como licforc you as patriots," wid Sir John, " It comes before you as business men with a business.proposition. If you cannot adopt it as such then it is your duty to reject it." There were two million acres of land in the district lying practically idle. About 8000 acres were nothing more or less now than a breeding ctouikl for rabbits and noxious weeds. The Xativo hind was paying no taxes and was almost whollv unoccupied. The railway when completed Io the point desired would be 65 miles in length. Ho repeated that the company didnot come seeking relief-in financial distress. The question had often been asked: Why does the company want to get rid of this railway line? _ It must have some hidden reason. " We. want to get rid of our line," Sir John continued, "because it is a dwindling asset in our hands." The com. nanv has spent £150.000 in constructing and equipping the line, and it had timber nmnj to work for the next 15or20years "The railway maintaiiod as at present would he as good in 20 years as it was to-day. but the forests would have disappeared. There would lie a railway leading to the mills, but mills which wore unsupplied with limber. It would be unfair for the Government to put itself in tlis position of saying, " Wo will wait for 15 vears before dealing with the line." Not only would it

hi unfair, it would bo extremely unprofitable. Ho took tho opportunity of denying the rumour tliat llic company had a secret alliance with tlio Tongariro • Timber Company in order that a monopoly might bo secured, hi point of fact, tlio two companies were in competition. Another baseless rumour was that tlio company hud options over all the hotola at the tourist resorts. It was true that it did Imvo options, but they had all been surrendered except over two. The Taupo Hotels Company had no dosiro to hold theso options, and it tlio proposal in the petition was agreed to the options over tno two hotels in question would at onto lie handed over to the Government. Tlio position was that there was a light line constructed and completed, and there wero only two courses open: (1) To leave-tlio lino as it is, with the limited uses of a bush tramway, or (2) to make it whut it ought to be, u feeder for the great arterial servieo and an inv portant factor in the development of the vast unsettled district. The company would bo prepared to hand over its 65 miles of line, equipped with rolling-stock, for £180,000. If the Government took the lino the company would guarantee to pay for freights over tho 65 miles a sum averaging £11,000 per annum. Over tho last two years the cost of the maintenance of tho line and the running amounted to £9150. Taking theso facts into account, and the fact that there is certain other traffic on the line at tho present time, ho submitted that a profit of £8031 would bo made each year. Sir John then explained that the company proposed that the Crown should acquire at tho present values part of tho Native land to be benefited by tlio extension of tho line, and clisposeof this land as well as tho Crown lands in the district after the service to Taupo has been established, applying so niucli of tho proceeds as may be necessary in the purchase of the completed line as its value without goodwill (there is, of course, the alternative that tho company be empowered to acquiro 200,000 acres to bo sold in small areas within 10 years. If tho Government purchased tlio Native land available and*resold it, the,railway could be paid for with the dilFcrence between the purchase and tho selling price. Ho characterised tho proposal for a lino of railway from Rotortia to Taupo as :i dream. Tlio committee might ask: What's the hurry? Was tho loss to the district which had gono on'for years through non-settlement to continue?' If tho line were pulled up to-morrow many of the settlers would bo ruined, One of the leading settlers in the district would givo evidence to that elFeol. Jn a rough approximation, allowing 8000 acres for every sottlcr, 2500 settlers could bo settled there. He claimed that the best proof that tho Natives did not want the land was tho fact that they had allowed it to bo idle so long. The attitude of the Kotorua people was sellish and insincere. He declared tliat they were actuated by a desire to block the development of Wairukei and other thermal resorts, and to concentrate the tourist trallin in Kotorua, us it was at present. In concluding a very lengthy speech, ho asked tho committee to carefully determine whether the two million acres of land should be allowed to lie idle for 15 years

Mr Buchanan snid he could not sco in tlio petition' liny reference to the salo of the line lo the Government nl £180,000.

Sir John said that he admitted tho matter was not adequately sot out, but he was authorised by the company lo make tho statement, 110 did so, and it held good, In reply to other question!, Sir John said .that the "company was prepared to guarantee to the Government freights up to £11,600 per annum for 15 years. Tho company also would be prepared to spend £5000 on improving the line. Tho reason tho Crown land had not been settled was no doubt duo to the Government.

Mr Kuchanan: Could you give us any pt.rticular reasons why the Government allowed a largo tract of land like this to lie idle? Sir John: I am afraid that you so olten proved tho reason that 1 could not jkissibly add to your reasons.—(Laughter.) Mr Collins asked Hint Sir John Finally should put in writing exactly what the compauv was prepared to do. Sir John replied that thai was quito a fair request. Mr Collins also asked that the papers connected with the issuo of tho original Order-in-Couiicil for the construction of tho line should be produced. The Chairman said the committee had power lo call for tho papers. Tho hearing of tlio petition was continued to-day. Mr W. Short, Assistant Under-seeretary of Public Works, produod the departmental files relating to llu granting of the original Order-in-Coiincil.' Theso were read at considerable length , Sir John Findlay said he had absolutely" no objection to olfer. Ho could not allow tho company to rest under any imputation that any inducement had been offered by tho company. The company asked for no concessions now; it simply put a business proposition before, the Government. Mr William C. Kensington, a retired civil servant and lalo Under-secictary for Um\i, was Uie next witness called. Ho explained that he was in .his official rapacity and with all the responsibility of his official position when tho two rival routes wero in question when similar committee sat last year. Ho now desired to speak in his private rapacity. Witness vcad the printed evidence given by him last year as to tho area of the Crown lands tliitl would ho beneficially affected by the extension of tiro Taup'o-Totara line. In supplementing this evidence Mr Kensington went on lo say that in the past two years there had. beep, tin extraordinary change in public opinion as lo the value of pumice lands. II had oceit found that a man could farm profitably on 400 to 600 acres on such areas. Ho believed pumice land could bo nuido to pay well. Ho contrasted tho difTcrcnco in cost, of bringing pumice and bush lands into cultivation, and spoko of tho extraordinarily fertile growth of tree, on some of 'tho poorest pumice land The essential to the settlement of the country was, of cour.-w, easy transit for manures to treat tho land. His' own personal opinion was that it would bo belter for tho Government lo lake over tho Taupo-Totara lino when completed at £180,000 rather than wait tiU the lino from Holorua, coidd bo completed. TJic latter iino could not bo constructed at less than £6000 or £7000 per mile. Tlio suggested lino from Kotorua would £orvo very littlo Crown hiiid, whereas tho Taupo Totara Company's line would servo a great deal if completed. • Mr \V. C, Buchanan: Can you explain why this public land was not cut up and settled by tho people who havo been clamouring for land all.over the country? .Mr Kensington: Yes, in my official capacity I was partly responsible. The reason was that 1 did not consider thero was suflicicnt. access, to warrant opening up tho land for small settlement. These lands must bo manured as preliminary to cultivation.

Mr Buchanan sought Io obtain an admission from the'witness that, inasmuch ns.tho railway is completed to Moki, settlers could reasonably get in manures. Witness replied that it would havo to bo carried in bullock drays from tho terminus.

Mr Buchanan: At reasonable cost?—V/iU ness: I presume so. In reply to Mr Hindma-rsh witness said ho would most certainly recommend that the piunico lands should bo settled in small areas. With cultivation pumieo land grew exooJleiit turnips. Properly cultivated tho land should carry from one to two sheep to the acre

Mr C. K. Wilson: Do you really think it 'would bo better to give this land to wealthy men so Uml it could bo "broken in" in large areas? Witness: Well, 1 used to think so, but I am now of tho opinion (hat tho best and most profitablo way it can bo worked is iu small areas. lii reply Io questions by Sir John Findlay witness said that he did not think from his knowledge of the topography of the country that the Rolorua-Taupo line would servo tho district efficiently. To bo useful the railway would have to follow a more central route, ne thought the purchase of tho company's line by tho Government would be a good bargain for the State. Mr R C. Burnett, farmer, Pularuru, said that since the railway had been built four creameries and one cheese factory had been erected within 12 miles of Putaruru. 110 went on to *Pcak of tho cost of bringing an aero of land into profitablo cultivation on the pumieo land, tho cost, if a man did his own work, being £1 15s per acre. With closer settlement a man could do lu'3 own work, whereas a man in a large way had to employ labour. It would cost him abo'Jt £2 Ite 6d to brin;: the land into cultivation. Areas which had been opened by tho Government on a valuation of 15s per aero could not bo obtained to-day under £7 10s per acre. In reply to questions. witness uiid that carting manure would cost from £3 to £4 per ton for 15 miles. Tho average section required to maintain a man and his family would vary from 300 to 900 acres, according to tho quality. A man might perhaps require £600 or' £700 to tackle such country. At the same time he had known a man to go oh to such land with a £10-noto in his pocket, Ho decidedly agreed with the proposal that it would bo n good thing_ for tho Stato to take over tho company's line. Tho average return from each cow on Uio dairying fanns in Putaruni district was about £10 per annum. He knew of one farm where cows had returned £13 p«r annum each. Replying to Mr Collins witness said bo was strongly in favour of the Government

taking over tho land, but failing tlial lio would not bo averso to tho company being given the right. Approximately 10s per aero would bo a fair price for tho land. If tfifl land wore out up in small blocks it should fetch from 15s to 30s per aore. To Sir John Findlay: 110 would not liko to sell his farm of "407 aorcs at £5 per acre. It had cost liim perhaps £600 or £700 to bring it into its present state of cultivation, Ho took it tip in its virgin state. All land south of Putururu was capablo of proliteblo funning, but without a rail: wav it would bo useless at this stage. Tho committee- adjourned till Tuesday next.