PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 11787, 17 October 1901, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

[by telegraph.—press association.]

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Wednesday. The Council met at half-past two p.m.

SHOPS AND SHOP ASSISTANTS BILL

The Shops and Shop Assistants Act Amendment Bill was committed, and a new clause proposing to establish a chemists' rota of hours of attendance was negatived. In the course of the discussion on the Bill, the Hon. S. E. Shrimski, in reply to a remark made by the Hon. G. Jones, said: "If there is a sweater in the country that hon. member is one." Mr. Jones moved th it the words be token down, which was done. Mr. Shrimski declined to withdraw the words, and the matter was reported to the Speaker. Mr. Shrimski still declined to withdraw, and on the motion of the Hon. W. C. Walker, the Council passed a resolution of censure on Mr. Shrimski. and suspended him for the remainder of to-day's sitting. The Bill was then put through its final stages. BILLS PASSED. The Rabbit Nuisance Act Amendment Bill and the Miners' Rights Fee Reduction Will passed through committee without amendment, were read a third time, and passed. « The Council rose at ten minutes to four p.m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. After the telegraph office closed this morning, the vote for Department of Agriculture was further considered. At the item, establishment of dairv schools, £1000, Mr. Syms and Mr. O'Meara urged that dairy schools should be established in the various dairying centres. Considerable discussion took place regarding the purchase of imported horses by the Agricultural Department. " Mr. Herries said he could name any number of horses in the colony which would beat those imported, and looked upon this vote as sheer waste of money. Mr. Duncan said instructions were given to the agent who purchased the horses to go to the War Office for advice. The adverse criticism of the recently-imported animals came from those who favoured racing stook, but the agent was instructed to buy stock suitable for breeding remounts.

Eventually the total vote for the Agricultural Department was passed unaltered.

DEFENCE. At a quarter-past three a.m. the vote for the Defence Department, £213,250, was taken.

In reply to Mr. Pin-,ni, Mr.. Seddon said a bonus of £50 each was given to Colonel Penton and the under-secretary for extra services connected with the despatch of the contingents to South Africa. The total amount granted as bonuses in connection with the despatch of all the contingents was only £667. Mr. Meredith moved, " That the first item be reduced by £5, as an indication to the Government to take back the Defence Estimates and reduce them by £50,000." He explained that he (fed not bring forward the motion as a motion of want of confidence in the Government. He favoured volunteers, cadets, and rifle clubs being encoaraged. but what he strongly objected to was building up a standing army in this country, and fostering a spirit of militarism and Imperial jingoism. Mr. Seddon twitted the member for Ashley with having pestered him to accept the services of the Kaikoura corps. He went on to point out that of late years the number of volunteers in the colony bad increased from 4000 to 18,000. This meant increased capitation, on which he had already spent £32,000, although the vote was only £30,000. He had no intention of building up a standing army in this country. It was not wanted, and he would never countenance it. The increased staff was due solely to the increase in the number of volunteers, and if allowance was made for the extra expenditure on volunteers, it would be seen that the strictest economy had been practised by the Defence Department. In increasing the volunteer force lie was simply carrying out the policy of the country. Mr. Ilornsby agreed that it was proper to arm the volunteers with the latest weapons. He strongly objected to an expensive military establishment in Wellington. and contended that it was not necessary tor the efficiency of our forces or the safety of our country to go in for so much glitter and show. The reorganisation of the whole staff system was necessary. Mr. Seddon said he had to defend the condition of things which had been forced upon him, and which was in the best interests of the volunteer force. He hoped in time to have every position in the defence force filled by officers of our own training. Mr. Ixl said the complaint was that the number of permanent officers was being overdone. Mr. Meredith said the Kaikoura corps existed as an honorary corps for 18 months, and there was nothing wrong in their asking to be placed in the same position as other corps. Our permanent force had increased from 204 in 1891 to 490 at the present time, and unless some action was taken there was no knowing where this thing would end. He contended that Mr. Seddon was creating a War Office. Mr. G. J. Smith said a reduction might be made in the headquarters staff, but he did not approve of this general attack on the Defence Estimates, seeing that the growth of expenditure was due to the volunteer system. Mr- Seddon, in reply to Mr. James Allen, said the delays in paying the returned contingents were not due to the Defence Department. After a lengthy discussion Mr. Meredith's motion was negatived by 31 to 8. Mr. G. W. Russell moved to reduce the item, 13 clerks, £2262, by £1174, the amount of the increased vote, as compared with last year. The motion was lost by 29 to 7. Mr. Seddon said the increase in the staff had been brought about by separating the civil and military portions of the Defence Department, which had been done at the instigation of the commandant. A motion by Mr. G. W. Russell to strike out- the item, eight clerks, £1311, was lost by 33 to 13. In reply to c. question Mr. Seddon said orders had been giren for military schools of instruction to be held in the four large centres.

Mr. Hornsby moved to reduce the vote for the Defence Department, £11,557, by £1000.

This was lost by 31 to 14, and the vote was passed unaltered. The vote for permanent militia and volunteers. £121,297, also provoked a lengthy discussion.

Mr. Hornsby moved to reduce it by £20,000. He said that a reduction could he made without impairing the efficiency of the Department. At half-past eight a.m. Mr. Hornsby's motion was lost by 29 to 12, and the vote agreed to without alteration. The House then adjourned for breakfast.

The House resumed at half-past nine a.m. the Defence Department Estimates being further considered.

The vote for stores and magazines, £6308, was passed unaltered.

THE TROOPSHIP TAGUS,

On the vote for the South African contingents, £30,000, Mr. Jas. Allen asked the Premier when he would lay 011 the table the papers and returns lie had asked relating tc the troopship Tagus. He went on to say chat since the vessel left Albany eight troopers died, and he complained that the fact 01 the men being taken to the Bluff and subjected to cold weather had caused a fresh outbreak of sickness among the men 011 board.

Mr. Seddon read letters signed by a large number of officers and men, who came by the Tagus, in which they stated that the reflections that bad recently been cast on the Premier in this matter were unjustifiable, and added that the visit South had nothing to do with the increased sickness, and that no man who had visited Invercargill had suffered by doing so. Most of the sickness occurred between Capetown and Albany, when 70 per cent, of those on board were in the doctor's hands. Another letter stated that the sickness among the men of

the Fourth and Fifth Contingents was brought on by privations endured in South Africa. Mr. Seel don remarked that these letters were unsolicited, and came as a most welcome surprise to him. Mr. Allen referred to the telegram seat by the medical officer from Albany, in which he said it would be very unwise to expose the troops to the cold voyage to the Bluff. He (Mr. Allen) contended that the responsibility for disregarding this message rested with the Defence .Minister. The fact that the troops were in such a bad condition made it all the more necessary that heed should have been given to the doctors opinion. * , Mr. Seddon said there was no choice but to take the Tagus to Port Chalmers. Even had she been brought to a Northern port things would not have been better, as a cold snap prevailed throughout the colony. In fact, the weather at that time was worse at Wellington than at the Bluff. When the sickness on the Tagus was reported to him he had ordered full inquiry to be made, and everything possible was done for the men. Mr. Allen said he believed there was a warmer route for the Tagus, and it should have been taken. Mr. Allen asked why the inquiry referred to by Mr. Seddon into the allegations of overcrowding and sickness on the lagus, had not been held. Mr. Seddon said the statement made by the doctor and others had been qualified, and he let the matter go. He was sorry now, an saw he should have insisted on the inquiry taking place. Sir Joseph Ward declared that nothing the New Zealand Government could have done could have made a Northern port the first port of call for the Tagus. Mr. McNab ridiculed the idea that the visit, of the Tagus was responsible for the deaths that subsequently occurred. The discussion lasted until the luncheon adjournment at one o'clock. The House resumed ?.t half-past two p.m., when the vote for the South Africa Contingents was immediately agreed to on the voices. .

I MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES.

I Miscellaneous services, £44,088, was next considered. Mr. Hogg inquired whether it was definitely decided to hold the annual Rifle Association meeting at Trentham next February. He pointed out that it was New Zealand's turn next year for the Federal teams match, in which teams from the Australian States would compete. It would be necessary to make early arrangements for the meeting. He would also like to know whether the Defence Department would run the meeting, or whether it would be neld, as in the past, under the auspices of the New Zealand Rifle Association. Mr. Massey asked for information as to the item " allowances to relatives of deceased members of New Zealand contingents, £500." Mr. Seddon replied that he intended to exercise discretion in regard to claims that came before him. He had already dealt with some necessitous cases that had been brought under his notice. The £500 vote was for contingencies that might arise. Of course applicants must show that there was necessity for assistance. In reply to Mr. Hogg's question, Mr. Seddon said it was the intention of the Government to have future shooting' gatherings held under the direct supervision of the Defence Department.

Mr. Hogg urged that the programme for the meeting in February should be prepared as early as possible, so as to give Australian competitors time to consider it. Mr. Seddon promised to get the matter attended to as soon as possible.

Mr. Pirani asked for details of the item " allowances for extra services connected with the despatching of the contingents to South Africa, £800."

Mr. Seddon stated that no portion of he money had been improperly allocated. It would not. be fair to publish names and details, but he offered to give the amounts. Several members protested against the refusal of the Premier to give the House details of the item, and a long discussion ensued.

Mr. Atkinson moved a reduction of the item by ,£5. This was lost by 23 to 20, and the item was passed.

On the item, £160 for passages of armourer-sergeants from England, Mr. Fisher wished to know why the Government were importing armourers when there were men available for the positions in the colonv.

Mr. Seddon said a compact having been entered into to import armourers with a knowledge of up-to-date arms', he could not bo put in the position of considering the grievances of men who thought they were being overlooked. Mr. Monk asked for general details as to the £1000 item in connection with the expenses of the visits of the Imperial and Indian troops. Mr. Seddon said he could not give the details of expenditure at each place. The £1000 was deemed a fair allocation for the Defence Department, as apart from the £1500 charged in the Colonial Secretary's Department. Some discussion took place in regard to the item, "purchase of piano for the Fifth New Zealand Contingent." Mr. Seddon said he considered the, equipment of the contingent was not complete without a piano. A motion to strike out the item was lost on the voices.

The vote for miscellaneous services was then agreed to, and the total vote for the Defence Department, £287,434, was passed on the voices.

The House-rose at a quarter-past five p.m.

The House resumed at half-past seven p.m., when the Estimates were further considered. RAILWAYS. The next vote taken was that for class 12, working railways, the total vote beintr £1,152,000. b

In answer to Mr. Herries, Sir Joseph Ward said he intended to bring down the Railway Servants' Classification Bill and the Superannuation Bill tomorrow, but he did not expect to get the latter passed this session. The Classification Bill would involve an increase of £28,000 in salaries over the whole colony, but wouid do away with many anomalies that existed at present. Mr. Buddo and Mr. Laurenson urged the Minister to consider the high rate of freight charged on the Christchurch-Lyttelton line as compared with those charged on other port lines.

Mr. Guinness urged, in view of the blow the Commonwealth tariff aimed at New Zealand products, that the importation of Australian hardwood for railway purposes should be closed. He also complained of Che constitution of the Railway Appeal Board, urging that two members should be appointed outside the Government service. Sir Joseph Ward said he could not at present obtain sufficient hardwood sleepers in the colony, and would cease importing them as soon as the supply could be obtained in. the colony at a reasonable price. As to the alteration ir the constitution of the Appeal Board, he was not aware of any dissatisfaction therewith, and personally, did not approve of such a suggestion. Mr. R. Mackenzie complained of the large importation of railway material from America, contending that the railway carriages were a rank failure, and that the locomotives were ..slop-made, merely gummed together. Mr. Meredith and Captain Russell urged that the expenditure on maintenance of the railways should come out of revenue instead of being charged to capital account. Sir Joseph Ward denied that the cost of the maintenance of railways was taken out of capital account. It was only where legitimate improvements and extensions were made that the cost was charged to capital account.

Mr. G. W. Russell wished to know how much railway revenue was received from other departments of the public service. He asked for an explanation as to why the rate of expenses to earnings had increased by 4 per cent, during the past five years. Sir Joseph Ward claimed that the money earned by the railways for the different departments of the public service were rightly credited to railway revenue. The reason why the ratio of expenses to earnings bad increased was the reduction in hours of labour and increased pay of railway employees, the additional cost of coal, and the large concessions made on the carriage of produce. In reply to Mr. Massey,

j Sir Joseph Ward said every precaution i was being taken to prevent the occurrence of fires all along the railway lines. The total vote for the Working Railways Department was then passed unaltered. PUBLIC BUILDINGS DOMAINS,

AND POLICE DEPARTMENT.

The vote for public and school buildings and domains, £46,750, and the vote for the Police Department, £122.258 were passed unaltered, practically without discussion. LA*i>S AND SURVEY DEPARTMENT.

The Department for Lands and Survey, £127,130, was then considered. Mr. G. W. Russell asked when it was proposed to fill the vacant position of SurveyorGeneral. It was absolutely necessary the position should be filled as soon as possible, as the Surveyor-General held a seat on the Boundaries Commission, and that Commission had to consider the boundaries of the electorates after the census was completed. Mr. Duncan said the matter was under consideration, and the appointment would be announced in due course.

Mr. McLachlan moved the item, " Arrears of rent remitted, £100,' be reduced by £15 as a protest against the delay in appointing the Surveyor-General. Lost by 28 to 2. Mr. Thos. Mackenzie moved the item, "Fees to members of Waste Land Boards, £1500," be reduced by £2 as a direction to the Government that henceforth no member of the House shall be appointed a member of a Land Board.

This was carried on the voices, and the total vote (as reduced) was agreed to. Valuation Department, £25,591. Mr. Meredith said there was a strong and growing feeling throughout the colony that the local valuations should again revert to the local bodies, who, it was contended, could carry out the valuations efficiently, and at much less cost than the Government Department. Mr. G. J. Smith and Mr. Lang spoke to a similar effect.

Mr. Mills said ho had received very few objections from local bodies throughout the colony. The Department had a very arduous task before it in endeavouring to arrive at a fair and reasonable valuation for the whole of the colony. He believed in a year or two the valuation of the colony would be completed, and after that there would be a very material reduction in the cost to local bodies.

The total vote passed unaltered. The following classes then passed without amendment, and practically without discussion: Rates on Crown lands, £800 : New Zealand State Forests Account, £12,332 ; Land for Settlements Account, £7000 ; Public Trust Office, £34,128 ; Government Insurance Department, £50,936 ; Government Accident Insurance Account, £3505 ; Government Advances to Settlers' Office, £88,514.

This finished the Consolidated Estimates, and progress was reported.

THE MAIL PROPOSALS.

Mr. Secldon announced that the debate on the mail proposals would be 'taken tomorrow afternoon.

The House rose at twenty-five minutes to two a.m.