THE LIBERAL PARTY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXI, Issue 9488, 18 April 1894, Page 6

THE LIBERAL PARTY.

ITS AIMS AND METHODS.

ADDRESS BY SIR R. STOUT.

A* the City Hall last night. Sir Robert Stout, M.H.R., gave his promised address on the " Aims and Methods of the Liberal Party," in the presence of a very large and attentive audience. The dress circle was crowded with ladies and gentlemen, and nearly the whole of the accommodation of the stalls and pit was occupied. The address was listened to throughout with the greatest interest, and the audience repeatedly showed their sympathy with the opinions expressed by the speaker by loud applause. Mr. J. J. Holland, the Mayor of Auckland, occupied the chair. Amongst the many prominent citizens upon the platform were Messrs. A. Porter, C. E. Button (M.H.R.). J. A Tole, W. J. Napier, J. M. Shera, McAlister, McKechnie, A. Hoard man, E. W. Burton, Warren, Patterson, J. Grey, A. 8011, R. French, Reid, G. Kent, Dodgahun, Rev. C. M. Nelson, and Captain Colbeck. The Chairman, in introducing the speaker, referred to his ability as a statesman and his wide experience. SIR R. STOUT'S ADDRESS. Sir Robert Stout, who, on rising to sneakwas received with loud and continued ap, plause. said he did not know if ever there was a more opportune time in the history of New Zealand politics for discussing political questions than the present. They were not in the middle of any political battle—the battle had been fought and won, and there had been returned to Parliament more Liberals than ever had been returned before, and perhaps more than ever had been returned to any colonial Parliament. It was opportune because they could, without considering the results of an election, calmly discuss political questions. He had said the subject of his address was to bo the " Aims and Methods of the Liberal Party," and by the Liberal Party he included men who were perhaps not all agreed upon every subject. A CHANGE. They knew it was popular now to-be called a Liberal : but it was not) once so. He Was glad to say that there were many members returned to the House who certainly could not have called themselves Liberals some years ago. Some of them were at one time in the unenviable position of what was called "sitting on a tence." However, it was for him now to approach another question, and endeavour to find out the true aims and methods of the Liberal party. In doing this they must assume that politics could help humanity, and they must assume that the universe was ruled by law and not by chance ; that oause and effect had their place in the social life of the community. H they Bowed wheat, they would expect wheat to grow and not oats. So in dealing with social life they would expect a certain effect to follow from a certain law. STATE OF HUMANITY. What was the state of humanity at the present time? No one could say that their civilisation had ended, or had even attained a very high position. He did not care to what country they went even to the freest country under the sun, tho United States— they would find many foul blots. The people of the United States had certainly great freedom. They had the right to elect all the Government officials, and one of the most far-reaching electoral systems in the world, and yet in their large cities they had their slums and dwelling unfit for any animal. They would find there hi some places thousands of men able and willing to work unable to find employment, and being fed by public charity, In England a similar state of affairs was found. When, therefore, he dealt with the aims of the Liberal party he must assume that these things could be remedied. (Applause.) THE GOLDEN AGE. If they did not believe that the golden age lay in the future it would be quite useless for them to waste their time with politics. They must assume that progress was possible — they must be optimists and not pessimists. Their aim must be to bring in a better social state, in which they would have better men and women, and gradually get rid of poverty, vice, and crime. (Applause.) THE EDUCATION* OF THE PEOPLE. Let them think also what that future man and that future woman was to be. He apprehended that they would not think much of the future man or future woman if he or she had not self-respect. If they had not what Burns termed *' an independent mind," if they were nob honest, veracious, »iul beneficent. They would have to look after physical health, for that was the basis of all true life. They would have to look after education, because that tended to intellectual development. They would further have to look after the morals of the community. They must expect this future man and woman to have self-reverence, self-knowledge, and selfcontrol. He wished co impress upon them this fact, that unless their future man or woman possessed this self-respect, this selfknowledge, self-control, ami self-indepen-dence the race would not be improved, but injured. They would have to so frame the laws as to produce that breed of men and women. THE SPIRIT OF INDEPENDENCE. It would not do for them to have men and women going to the Government for favours, or asking other people to assist them. They must have men of independent minds—(applause)—who would be able to look after themselves and their families. (Renewed applause). It might be said that this was the aim not only of the Liberal party but of all parties. Let them assume that. If they got all people to agree to their aims, they would adopt their methods. And why had they political methods? Because they believed that the State could help humanity. ISow this was a distinguishingthiug in the present age. In the past almost all great Liberals thought if they made men and women equal, if they could give them equal privileges ana equal political rights, and if the Government did nothing but maintain order in the community, the people would be able to work out their own salvation. (Applause.) It was a notion nowadays that the State could be looked to by all for assistance. The strong individualist force in the world had practically spent itself, and they were now face to face with this feeling, that the State could be utilised for helping humanity. This lay at the basis of all liberal legislation in every country where liberalism existed. If they admitted this aim, the first thing they must sec was, that they had able men to look after the State. (Applause.) Unless they had men to guide the State and control this force, who were well versed in political science, aud able not only to deal with the politics of their own country, but of other countries, they could not hope to succeed in their aims. He did not think that they had sufficiently realised that not only must they have able men in Parliament but also in their Ministry if the State was to do one half of the things asked of them. They must also draft some of their ablest men into the civil service. If th«»y did not they could not expect the State to take charge of the multifarious things that they were called upon to perform. If they increased the functions 01 the State they must have able officers. They must have reliable men, and their laws so framed as to draw into the State's service the ablest men in - the community. They could only do that by seeing that they were properly treated and properly paid. They ought to have their ablest men to peform the offices of the State that they could get, and if they did not their democracy would fail, and prove a curse instead of a blessing. MORE WAYS OF BRIBING THAN ONE. Thene were two or three things in political methods that would have to be followed before they were able to attract to the services of the State their ablest men and women. He desired first to Bay a word about Parliament. Their Parliament must, if possible, consist of the ablest men. Americans would tell them that the corruption that had existed, and still existed, in some of the States in America, both in municipal government and in State government, was entirely due to the fact that the ablest Americans did not touch politics. They thought more of money-getting than of their political state. A constituency in making a selection of a candidate should endeavour to , get the services of one of their best men. They should look to his ability, his character, and his opinions. A constituency should not be bribed by any promise of a Government. He thought it was as great a crime to bribe a constituency as to bribe an individual voter. Ho did not think that candidates ought to be bribed either. It was not creditable to any country when a candidate could be bribed and prevented from contesting a seat by being promised a seat in the Council or otherwise. This was far worse than giving a p°° man a pint of beer on election day. THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. He was one of those who believed that if there was a House of Representatives freely elected, it could do the legislative work without the need of a second chamber. He had held that opinion for very many years. He knew he was in a minority. (Hear, hear.) And he knew that being in a minority the next best thiug was to try and make the second chamber as effective as possibltyit the same time that it carried out the beHfcts of the people and worked in line with the House of Representatives. HOW IT COULD BE DONE. How could that be done? He did not I'think any person could say that the present

system was* satisfactory. They had now a large number of legislative councillors and he believed they had now a larger number relatively to the number of members of the House of Representatives than there ever had been since the foundation of the colony. Yet he had actually heard it urged that more should be appointed. Surely that was making a farce of the second Chamber. They had been told about seven years ago that the safety of the colony lay in reducing the number of the House of Representatives, and anyone who chose to quarrel with that was denounced as not being a lover of his country. Yet some of the same people who voted for this reduction were content to say there should be an increase in the number of the Legislative Council. If a second Chamber existed at all, it existed to block legislation. Otherwise, why have it It existed to revise and stop legislation until the people should have ■ fully con* tidered the proposed alterations in the law. If, therefore, a second Chamber should occasionally reject Bills, it had performed what he (the speaker) understood to be part of its functions, and the reason why/ it existed. (Applause.) But at the same time they had no right, surely, to have a second Chamber to 1 stop legislation at its own sweet will, without : being responsible to the i people. - What : be (the 'speaker) desired to see carried out was; a system that I would give a revising Chamber, and at the same time would feel that it had. carried out the will of the people as expressed at the triennial elections. (Applause.) How could I that be done ? Of course, they could not interfere with those members who were appointed for life. There they must remain. But as time wore on that number would inevitably decrease. What he proposed to do was that, as vacancies occurred, they should be filled up by the House of Representatives as a whole. They might take men from amongst themselves, or men from outside. These could be elected for, say six years. By and by the result of this would be that half of the Legislative Councillors would retire at the election of a new House, and the other half at the election of themext House. And every three years it ooald be.: so arranged that half of the Legislative Council would be appointed by the House of Representatives. Now, if they had that scheme in operation, the House would appoint those members who wore likely to carry out the measures which they were elected to I pass. And in this way they would have a Legislative Council not working at cross purposes with the House of Representatives, but being a true revising Chamber. He (the speaker) believed that would work far better than having what had been proposed, viz., allowing the Legislative Council to be elected by large constituencies. That system had utterly failed in Victoria, where he had heard some of the elections had cost the candidate £10.000 to £12,000. The constituencies were so large that a poor man practically could not canvass, while the rich could. "an otter absurdity." There was no chance whatever of the second chamber becoming anything but a class hosue if it were directly elected by the people, with large constituencies, even if they had the same franchise. It seemed to hhn an utter absurdity to have two elective houses with practically equal powers—elected for what purpose ? To fight between themselves and not to carry on the business of the country. (Applause.) He (Sir Robert) submitted if they were to maintain the second chamber at all, the method he had suggested, he did not claim originality for it, would he believed work well. (Applause.) That, he continued, was one method of perfecting Parliamentary machinery. But more was needed. They needed to have the mode of appointing the Executive perfected. At the present momont the Executive might often be appointed practically by one man. who might be the leader of the party for the moment. And it might happen that the best Executive officers were not chosen. But that was not the only evil. The Executive had to propose measures to take the initiative in legislation, and as it did so it expected the legislature would follow Its lead. And if that lead was not followed, then it had to give up the administration. Once an essay had been written by au American, which went to the root of women's rights. The question was, "Ought women to learn the alphabet?" It the answer was "Yes," then women could not be deprived of political privileges. He (the speaker) thought there was one question they might put. It was, " Ought politicians to be honest?" (Laughter.) "Ought members of the House of Representatives to be truthful ?" (Renewed laughter.) If they were expected to be honest and truthful then they only ought to give honest and truthful votes in the House. (Applause.) When any question of legislation came before the House, it might be the Midland Railway matter, the Licensing Bill, or a dozen others, the question a representative ought to have put was " What is right?" But it always was," If I vote so and so, whatwill happen to the Ministry ?" That ought never to happen. The result of the present system of appointing the Ministry, and of the Ministry having to go out of office when any proposed legislation was rejected, was that the legislation of the country was not dealt with by the members either voraciously or honestly. They were not allowed to vote on each measure that came up on its merits. They were asked continually to give votes, not on the merits of a matter, but how they might affect the executive. WHY? He {the speaker) wanted to know why it was, if they had to keep an executive in power to administer the various departments of the State, that they should be removed because on some questions they and Parliament might differ. Why could not they differ and yet be able to administer the affairs of the country correctly ? Why should there be this connection between administration and legislation? In America they had divorced the two things utterly. No member of the United States executive could even sit in either House of Parliament or make a speech there. The initiative of legislation did not come from the executive as members of either House. He (Sir Robert) thought in that respect, perhaps, the Americans had gone too far. THE LEGISLATIVE MACHINE. In the United States the executive power and the judicial were separated from the legislative power and yet not conflicting. His proposal was that the exeoutive should not be separate, but yet that it should be independent. The executive should be elected by the House for three years, aud not called upon to resign because any legislative proposal was rejected. They could be removed for dishonesty by a vote of the House; and their successors chosen by a vote of the House. The fate of the Ministry should not be allowed to depend upon the fate of any Bill. (Applause.) It was only by these means that they could hope to make their members as a whole vote honestly and truly. He apprehended that veracity was the basis of all morality. They heard a great deal about morals being taught in the schools; but if they could give effective moral teaching in Parliament, the effect would be to improve the morals of the community. To raise the tone of Parliament would raise the tone of the people. He, therefore, desired to see the exeoutive elective. It might be said that this would destroy party government. He supposed, however, that the party in the majority in the House would elect the best men in their party to office, and he believed that if the House found a man who was a capable and faithful administrator, they would choose him no matter to what party he might happen to belong. Parliament would certainly be none the worse for that, THE SWISS BVSTKM. The system had been tried in Switzerland— though the constitution and political life of that country was, he know, not exactly similar to that of New Zealand—and it was acting splendidly. The work was being well done there by capable administrators, and with credit to their country and to themselves. Why should not the system work well here also ? Let the House choose the Ministry, and put them in power, and then when any measure was proposed the question will be, "Is the measure good or bad?" and the vote would go accordingly, without the question of the cost coming in at all. They would then have the representatives of the various constituencies of the colony having a voice in the appointment of these administrators—and why should they not have? They would have a more efficient . Executive, and would have better legislation, I because they would not have the continual | question, whenever a measure was introduced into the House, " How will it affect the Ministry?" or "How will it affect our party ?" THE TEMPKRANCK QUESTION. For example, let them take the temperance question. (Applause.) How would that question be dealt with in the House if its machinery was amended in the direction he had suggested. Any private member might introduce a bill—the Ministry was not bound to do so—and the House could deal with it on its merits. Did the people of the colony want legislation to be useful and beneficial and the legislators honest? If so, they muse have all these matters discussed upon their merits, and without reference to the effect they will have upon certain men who happen to occupy die Ministerial bench. (Applause.) In speaking of political methods the perfecting of the political machine must have an important place. They must make the machine as perfect as possible, and if the suggestions he had made were carried out, they would enormously improve their machine. THE LAND QUESTION. He would now ask them to consider som« further matters that it was necessary for the Liberal party to deal with; and first of all there was a question that was almost peren-

nial, that existed in New Zealand as well as in other lands—the land question. If the Liberal party ever had a mission, it was surely the task of settling this question. It , had not been satisfactorily dealt with or I settled. He believed in that system which gave the State the right of periodically adjusting rents. It was not necessary to the welfare of the farmer that the State should have parted with the land, for the State might have given absolute certainty of tenure without parting with the freehold. That was called the " eternal lease," whioh extended over nearly a thousand years, was in reality but a freehold in another name, and a freehold for which the State had not been paid. They were only paid the rent. Some people considered that the only solution of the laud question lay in taxing the land, but he did not agree with that all. He could not understand how the farmers were to be benefited by being taxed. He did not think anyone was benefited by being taxed. Some people would so tax the land as to got the whole rental into the coffers of the State. LAND TAXATION. He would give them an illustration which was .founded upon fact. • There were two miners who each made £1000 at mining. One of the men said to his mate, "Look here, Bill," there is a great deal of talk going on about this land business; I think I will put my money into it. I will buy a farm and settle down." He purchased 1000 acres of land.and paid to the State his £1000. His mate did not care for laud, so decided to put his money in the bank, where he got £60 a year interest. The man who bought the land would, if some people's notions were carried into effect, suffer badly. The taxgatherer would come round and say, " The great remedy for farmers is to tax their land. I have been sent round to tax your land and you can now be happy for ever." The man would reply, " Yes, I would be happy for ever if you would only clear out and leave me alone." The tax-gatherer answers by asking what was the value of the land, what was the rent of the land, without improvements. " Come.'f says lie,' " you paid £1000 for this land; you have got to give the State £60 a-year." "£6O a-year?" replies the miner. " Why, that is all that it is worth. Yon want to tax me on the £1000 I paid for the land. Is this the way you encourage settlement? Why there is Bill, he had £1000, and he put It? in the bank, and he gets £60 a-year; why don't you seize Bill's £60?" The taxgatherer's answer is, "Oh, no! not at all; Bill has not got land." (Laughter.) Sir Robert Stout continuing, said it would therefore be seen that at the end of the year, if some people's notions were carried out, Bill would get £60 per year for his money, and his mace, who bought land, would lose £60. This was practically what was termed a single tax. lie thought it might much better be termed a, singular tax. (Applause and laughter.) If that was the way they encouraged farmers, he did not wonder at their young men preferring city life to farm life. He believed that what was termed "the unearned increment," belonged to the State, but the only way by which the State could get it, and give certainty of tenure to the farmer, was this. If they had a perpetual lease settlement, at the end of 30 years, or other stated period, the land could be valued. If the land had during that term fallen in value, the rent would be reduced, and if it had increased, the tenant would pay more. The tenant would thus have certainty of tenure and the State would likewise benefit. He thought the land question ought to be dealt with in that direction. CONFISCATION Of LAND. There was another question in connection j with this matter, was it right for the State to take land from people for the purpose of settlement ? He thought that it was. He shared the same opinion on this matter as one of their greatest statesmen, Mr. Gladstone. (Applause.) He believed that there existed that right to confiscate land, but it was only to be exercised under certain conditions. They had no right to take a farm from Tom and give it to William. They had no right to deprive a man of his home, or take laud for settlement as long as there was land held by the State fit for settlement. They had no right to interfere with farms and homes, but only to interfere with large areas, and then not by the power of a Minister who by a stroke of his pen could say that certain land was to be confiscated. They had all heard of Irish evictions. If some people's notions were carried into effect, it would bo worse than that. In Ireland they got six months' notice, but some people were of opinion that a man's farm ought to be seized by Government proclamation without notice at ail. No compensation would pay a man if his farm and home was taken from him when he had hoped that it would be for a home for himself and family. If they destroyed this love of home they would be doing their best to ! prevent settlement in the country, and prevent men of independence from living in the country and righting for the country if occasion arose. Land should not be taken until a judicial investigation had been held, with nothing political about it. They had no right to take land from a man when he had only sufficient for himself and family. And they had no right to take the land unless they were prepared through an impartial tribunal to compensate the owner according to its value. THE NATIV» LANDS QUESTION. This brought him to the question of native lands. The Maoris had equal rights with Europeans. They were British subjects, and were entitled to the same consideration and frotection of the law as their white brethren, f they required to take the lauds of the Maoris, the same rights should be observed as in dealing with Europeans. They had no right to make one law for the Maori and one for the European. He did not think that at present there was need to take the native lands by compulsion. Unfortunately the Maoris were not thrifty enough, and were only too glad to sell their land to anyone who would buy it. A MATTER OP MONEY. It was only a question of money. Unfortunately a Maori was fond of money, and unfortunately he generally wasted it. Aud he would sell his land. (A voice: Will the Government let them.) Unfortunately, Sir Robert went on, he did not know how the Government could stop it, (Laughter.) The Maoris had not been trained to European ways of thrift. Bat what he (the speaker) wanted to point out in regard to this expropriation of native land was this : If they were to take land from the Maoris by compulsion, they had no right to have one law for the European landlord, and another for the Maori. As a State, justice must be done to all. They must be righteous in their actions, and they could not be that if they were to have a different law for dealing with Maori lands than they had for European. In fact, from the way some people talked, one would imagine the Maoris had no rights at all, and that because their lands were unused and untitled they could be seized at pleasure. He (the speaker) did not deny the right of the State to take any land that might be necessary for settlement by the State. They had a right to do so. All he demanded was that it should be done in a judicial way, that it should not be done for mere political ends or purposes! that it should only be done by compulsion under great stress, and when land could not be got by voluntary sale. Judging from what was happening throughout New Zealand it seemed there was a great deal of land for sale, and what was mainly wanted was purchasers. He would go further and say that the mere fact of the Maoris being what could be termed,aidyiug race, they should receive even greater consideration than w»s given to Europeans. They were the weaker race, and they should be dealt with as such. He had mentioned already that some people wished to have morals taught in the schools. MORALS IN HIGH PLACES. Did they think it was of any value to teach morals in the schools if the laws were not moral and if " righteousness was not the foundation of the nation." (Hear, hear.) He remembered it being suggested, he thought by an Auckland gentleman, that the ten commandments should be read in schools. There was one of them that said, " Thou shalt not covet " But, by the way some people spoke, to his mind there would have to be an addition made, and the command made to read, Thou shalt not covet anything but native lands." (Laughter.) THE ETERNAL LEASE. Passing on, Sir Robert said he had dealt somewhat with the land question, and what was to be the aim of the Liberal party. He believed that party ought to give its consideration to having the perpetual lease reintroduced, and the eternal lease repealed, so that the State should have the benefit of the unearned increment; and that if land were required for settlement, whether European or Maori monopolists, the same law should apply to all; and that what was done should m done cautiously, judicially, and with righteousness. That, tie believed, should be the programme of the Liberal party. (Load applause.) There was another thing that must oe looked after. It must be remembered that in a community like New Zealand the well-being of the people should be looked after. NOT ENOUGH DONE. Enough had not yet been done to enoourage those industries which depended upon land. He was glad to see dairy produce greatly extending. He had read the other day that the export of butter from Victoria exceeded £500,000, and Mr. Wilson, the dairy expert, estimated that this year it would exceed £700,000. He (Sir Robert) could not see why New Zealand's export should not equal that of Victoria. The Government, he believed, was doing what it could. The country he [ (the speaker) believed had to look to theso

promising industries for relieving it of the unemployed, depression, and other things, i which often afflicted it, particularly in the ' North. Years and years ago he had urged that fruit and forest culture was not sufficiently looked to. There were thousands, he might even say millions, of acres in Auckland province that could not be used, without manure or expense, even for growing grass, that could be made useful for timber and for fruit. These should be encouraged. Nothing practical had been done in the past, in this direction, in any scientific or effective manner. It was true the colony had had able experts teaching the people fruit culture, but there had not been applied to it the same energy that should have been. And for this reason : It had to be remembered in dealing with dairy produce, grain, or frozen meat export, a matter was beiogdealtwith which could not be accomblished in a year or two. In dealing with timber industries and fruit, they had to look at the future. Therefore these industries were of a nature that should be especially encouraged and fostered by the State. (Applause.) THE RAILWAYS. In the future, went on Sir Robert, he believed the railways must be looked upon as an instrument to help in the encouragement both of settlement, and what may be termed agricultural industries. (Applause.) Revenues had to be got from the railways. The colony was not rich enough to dispense with railway rates; but he believed they should look more than they had done in the past to them in the direction he had intimated, to be a helpmeet to country settlers and an encouragement to those engaged in agricultural pursuits. And here he might say, if they had an elective executive, they would get rid of this cry of having the railways placed under what was termed an independent Board. He disagreed with that entirely. He believed if the State was able to manage its post office and telegraphs, its public trust and insurance offices, by its Ministers, it ought to be able to manage its railways by its Ministers, and there was no need of appointing what was called the Railway Commissioners independent of the Government at all. (Applause.) AN OBJECT LESSON. What had recently happened ought to be an object lesson and to explode the absurd fallacy about what was called a " nonEolitical board." The colony had had what ad been called a non-political board. On it were two great experts. Mr. Maxwell was such that when the Agent-General asked some railway people at home to name someone to send to New Zealand it Was said, "Have you not got Mr. Maxwell; he is just as able as any man we can send you." Then there was Mr. Hannay, also an able expert, and then there was Mr. McKerrow, the head Commissioner, who knew no more about railways than anybody in the room, but who was no doubt a sound, common-sense, able,man. What had happened? The railways were to be managed by experts. But strange to say the two experts had been removed and the non-expert had been kept on. (Laughter.) For what purpose? Nobody could say for one moment that one of the experts put on was equal to the two that had been removed. What did the Board thus become? It was not simply because they were experts that the latter ones had been appointed. Had there been anything political in the appointment? He did not know. (Oh, and laughter.) But he said it was an object lesson to show there was no right to have the Board in existence at all. If the Minister for Public Works was able to manage the construction of the railways he ought to be able to manage and be responsible to Parliament for the running of them. (Applause.) SOCIAL QUESTIONS. He had up to this point been dealing with what might be termed political questions; but he would now ask them to consider the methods of the Liberal party in dealing with social questions. Unless the political machine helped to make their social life purer and better, what was the use of all their political agitation ? Now, many of those who called themselves Liberals were afraid to trust the people to deal with the social questions that were pressing for a solution. In England the case was different. There the Liberal party see that all social questions should be dealt with by the Government. A MANIFESTO. The Liberal party in England were pledged to the local veto. He held in his hand a copy of the manifesto issued and signed by 162 leading trade unionists and members of the Labour party. It bore the signatures of such men as John Burns, John Wilson, Kier Hardie, Ben Tillett, Tom Mann, and other leaders of the Labour parties in England, Scotland, and Ireland. They were unanimous in demanding that the people should decide the liquor question. What did they say ? They said tho present Imperial Parliament was the most democratic yet elected, and that the Government's Liquor Traffic Local Control Bill would bring about a further extension of popular rights. Sir Robert quoted from the manifesto to show that the measure proposed to make the ' masses masters of the situation. That the control of the traffic by the classes hitherto had resulted in the impoverishment and degradation of the masses and the enrichment of great monopolists. A FRAUDULENT PROFESSION. The opponents of the direct veto professed to be anxious for the freedom of tn« working classes; but it was a fraudulent profession. They were working rather in the interests of privileged monopolists. They spoke of the liberty of the people;" but could any cry be more absurd. The labour leaders of England, therefore, urged every working man, and every friend of the workingman to give a warm support to the principle of local control. It was one of the planks of the Liberal party in England that this question should be left to the people. LIBERALS OR NOT? He, Sir Robert, would like to know how it was that some labour people in Mew Zealand could say that this veto question did not concern them. Were these men Liberals or not? If they were, could they refuse to give the people the right to declare what the majority of the people wanted. He did not deny when that right was given that each might differ as to whether the traffic should be continued or not. In Auckland they had, he believed, 50 or 60 publichouses. He was told that only half-a-dozen of them were practically free. Why should these 50 nave the right to sell liquor and no one else? If they once admitted the question of granting a monopoly, the whole of the people should give it. All the Temperance people asked was that the whole of the people should express their opinion on the question, and that the majority should rule, no matter which way the decision might go. THE NON-VOTERS. Was it true liberalism to say that the men who did not vote, should be taken to vote in a particular direction? Yet it was this that the present Act did. (Applause.) Let them be logical in their dealing with this question. Why should it not be settled by the will of the majority—the majority of those who voted? It was contrary to the first principles of liberalism to say that people who abstained from voting should be deemed to have voted in a certain direction. Sir Robert Stout went on to refer to Sir W. V. Harcourt's Bill, and admitted that it provided for a two-thirds majority; but he pointed out that in England a monopoly of tremendous wealth had to be fought, and it was not to be wondered at that he was forced to deal with the question piecemeal. If the Liberal party were afraid to do its duty in this respect, and desired to make an alliance with what he might term the Liquor party, then let them do so. But in doing this, it would have to be borne in mind that it was writing its own death warrant. (Applause.) WHAT THE TEMPERANCE PARTY DEMANDED. It had been said that the teetotallers were asking too much. What did they ask for? His Bill asked that the questions might be put fairly to the people, and if they said an increase of licenses was to be made their will was to be obeyed. He did not wish to see liquor sold at all. He wished to see the people judge and decide this question for themselves. Ha was prepared to leave it to their good sense. It they wanted more houses, by all means let them have them. He would have regretted if it had been so, but he would have been willing for it to be law. If, on the other hand, any community in their colony said by a majority that there should be no more licenses, let that will be carried out. (Applause.) There was another question that he desired to touch upon. He believed the Liberal party were willing to have the relations of contract between employers and employees dealt with by arbitration. It was thought that the employed could not make a good bargain, and, therefore the State should interfere. But there were other contracts regarding which he thought the State could well interfere. THE EVILS OF GAMBLING. There were many gambling transactions in which the State had a right to step in, and say that they should not be carried out. The gambling spirit was one of the cankers that was destroying their civilisation. There were many lions in the path before this evil could be remedied. They had in the colony a race meeting for almost every day in the week. (A voice: "No, not at all.") Some one says no, then he must know more about it than I do. Suppose, for instance, then that we have but 200 meetings in the year. It seemed absurd, he thought, that with a population of 700,000 they cannot get along without four race meetings a week. He remembered once t in the Provincial Council there wits a motion to give a piece of plate to be raced for. It was urged that it would be encouraging the breed of horses in the colonics. He (Sir Robert) had suggested

| that the piece of plate should be given to the man who bred the best -horse, and that there should be no race at all. (Applause.) He was sure that all the race meetings he' 1 'n the year were not held to encourage mo breeding ot horses in the, colonies. -He was certain that it did not in any way tend to improve i the - breed of men who attended these meetings. (Applause.) He considered a man of more value than a horse. Anything that tended to degrade these men, even if it did improve their horses, should be remedied. He believed the licensing. the totalisator had not stopped gambling,' as it was thought it; would. It would- not do to abolish it altogether as it would be playing into the hands of the betting men. ; The true remedy lay in the lessening of the number of race meetings. He thought that i one race meeting a week would meet ail the requirements of the colony at the present time. Thn spirit of gambling was destroying their social life. He thought that it could to a considerable extent be remedied if only proper measures were adopted. There was a time when bull baiting was a common sport in the old country, but they got on without I it very well when steps were taken to put it : down. He thought that in time the people ; of the colonies would learn to go on very well without so many race meetings. THE PROBLEM OF THE AOE. After all, the problem of the age was the problem of poverty. How was it to be got rid of ? He did not believe it was to be got rid of by any one means or any one proposal. Temperance would get rid of a good deal. The colony was spending £2,000,000 a year fully in drink which was absolutely wasted. Even if it was admitted so much went to the Government, and sojnach to those engaged in the trade, etc., there would still be a residuum left of at least half If that were expended on public works it would be an enormous gain. One method of solving it he believed was in old age pensions. (Applause.) He did not think they had the means, even if it was right, to give what was termed State pensions. And he did not know that it would be right. But if a system were established by which the Government gave a certain rate of interest for the amount of money paid, say five per cent on very small payments, a man on reaching sixty could get a pension. The system of old age pension should be taken notice of, and dealt with by Parliament. One of the effects he pointed out would be the withdrawal from the labour market of a number of men who were now forced to compete.'Colonists had, operating in their midst, exactly the same causes that had led to the poverty in other and older -lands, and the problem of poverty had to be faced. His proposal was that the Government should take up his old age pension scheme, and encourage industrial life assurance in small sums, so that the labouring rn.au might make provision. In conclusion Sir Robert made an eloquent appeal to all to take an interest in politics. It was absolutely necessary to remember that all had a duty tc the State, and unless all took an acdve interest not only in general policies, but municipal, educational, and other politics, the penalty would have to be paid. After an eloquent appeal he resumed his seat amidst loud applause. VOTES OP THANKS. Mr. French moved, " That this meeting welcomes Sir Robert Stout to Auckland, warmly thanks him for his able and timely address, and trusts that the principles laid down will receive the earnest consideration of the people of the colony." Mr. Patterson seconded. The motion was carried by acclamation. A vote of thanks to the chairman terminated the proceedings.