TATTERSALL'S CLUB.

Dominion, Volume 2, Issue 556, 10 July 1909, Page 13

TATTERSALL'S CLUB.

GRANT OF CHARTER'OPPOSED. V DEPUTATION TO THE ACTING-PRIME MINISTER. A "large deputation representing those in- - terested m tho No-Liconso and anti-gambling ' movements waited upon . tho Acting-Pnmo Mbistor (Hon. J. Carroll) yesterday to proe test against tho grant of a ,oharter,.to a - club whioh (they stated) they believed was to ' bo established in Wellington under the name of Tattcrsall's Club. ~ ■\ ■ Mr.' J. G. TV. Aitken, in introducing the deputation, which lie described as very ..influohtiolj- said'thkt it could have open 11 mucli larger, ■ but it was :felt-that a depute- " tion of moderate sizo would be-just as effco- '■ tual and effectivo: as a larger one.. Ihoy had, d he'continued,' been credibly informed that the i- proposed Tatfersall's Club, was going to.ask r for a charter. Needless to say the deputation wore entirely opposed to any such grant being e made. d : Speakers Against tho Club. 0 ' The Rev. J. J. North remarked that tho objections felt ■ to - the. proposal ivero of two, - types- They wished first to point out that tho 0 formation of a Tattcrsall's Club with central <- promises m the city • was tantamount to a » defeat of the intentions of the Government, - aa outlined in recent legislation. The meae suro in quostion had been succesaful in elosr mg, it was beliovcd, all tho.bookinak)ng offioes in tho ■ city, which was a .substajitial gain. If the proposed olub wero_ fonnod it would probably . mean tho establishment of „ one largo bookmdking office instead of twenty or thirty' small ones. Such an .institution •: would have au amount of respectability fur in ® exoess of that obtaining unaer the old sys- ■ torn. They wished to emphasise that tho feature of tho legislation was to- rostrict betting 1 transactions. Was -it not within: the. range • of possibility that people might, congregate there for betting: purposes? The suppression j of betting in clubs was a very difficult mat--1 tor,' and it was very seldom that tho efforts ■ of the polico m that direction , were attended ,■ with- success: ■■ . That' .a large 'amount of gambling wont . , on in . clubs ... was h a notorious fact. It .would , ,bo_ a very i '. . vicious thirig-rif an institution, which proved 3 to be nothing moro than a great betting i 1 centre whoro deteotion was practioally impos- ; siblo, was : allowed: to be established M | would be a kind thing to tho gentlemon in- i V torestitig themsfilves iii' tho the proposed club if the Government saw its way • to intimato to them that there was a clausO | > in tho : Act empowering the Government (or i i- rather the'polico) 'to quarantine'any infetitu- | 'tion -of the kind 'to .which Ife'.had. been' referi- ring;.' If -such an institution were established • in the city it would bo almost: impossible-to • detect "batting,'and endrmousharm would be done to tho-Community, which would be sot further back than- previously.' They would be ' very, glad : if the 1 Acting-Prime Minister would' 1 appreciate .'the "position;': and.- uso'. his power » to secure the cancellation.of tho'proposition. I' The : grant .of a chartor for the proposed ini stit-atio'n'should, it was urged,/on'no 'account i bo mado,. What wouty be thu result'" if tho / promises-became 'not only a bottmg. centre . but ■ also a drinking saloon? :Tbo city, would : bo cursdd with a great evil which the Government oould ; prevent in a very simple manner. .' No) hardship- would ■ accrue to ' the' promoters of' the proposed dub if thoy were at - once referred to tho clause providing that illegal ; premises- ooul<J bo quarantined. :Tho Rev. J; 1 Dawson referred to tho prospect of' the grant of a; ohartor as affccting ,tho: ' Licensing Act; • He .said that, .when the present Government cam« into poworj it granted threo new charters for olubs—ono at Gis> ■borno,:/another >at -Hastings; and <a third at Feilding. - .They wero,• at that' time, ,definitely ' and officially assured by Dr. Findlay that nomore club'-charteri' would bo grantedj :andthat the threo in question 'would'not have, been' granted,-hadnit ,not boen tliat they had : 'been r pf(jmis<)d and-tho/grant of ' them hail becniimitiheldi until.:iti.was in|tbe power of tho peojiM to ''vole, dnti olubs » ; as . well -as • hotels.; , . lie •, would , omphasisej'. 'tlio . ppiiit.that"!:' thoy -bweroli 'distinctlyi;': t^d- . thats no'- othor charters ' woultl fbo-jgrantod'-undor .any circumstances. ' "Tho' grSnt' of a: • new'charter.,wa's' equivalent, to' the .grant of an ' additional 'liconso;; Ho -worit. on-'W .say, : that;'at'the election in November; more; thai) '2000 "of 'a - -majorityrof: the'city •elect6ra "voted: : against tho continuance. of tho present censes: 'If ; an additional license wero there-: foro granted: the'y,!WOuld; havo just: reason toi : oomplain, - 'Having:;in mind' the- possible results 'in regard to tlio• th'o 'club itself, tho, grant of a charter would be ■ agiinst' tha "wißhos!of ; tbo'people,-and tlio ; specifio promise: of Dr. ''Findlay as representing the Government that no fresh charters' would be, grant-ed, they ; sincerely.' hoped, that, no'facilities -would'bo offered 1 for tho grant. of that;or any other club in the city., ; '- Aotlng-Prlma Minister's Reply. : i ' ■ 'Tlie/"Acting;Priine Minister, in-- roply, said . that no application had yot - been 'made for, the grant of a charter to what was known as ■ .Tattersall's ; Club, or a, dub, about to, bo , formed under that name. ! If- an application ■ were received,- tho Government would ; not ■ alter its previous decision 1 with regard .to tho ' 'granting' of oharters. ("Hear, hear.") With : : respect to the;other aspect, ho did not knowwhothortthe Government could: interfere with ■ any- section ,of th'o community who formed ; themselves into a,club ior hired premises for : their own recroation, unless they-,put themselves in a position as, regards gambling, which would claim tho attention of. the Government.- Tho,club might make rulea -which would have the effect of preventing gambling., It might bo that , tho club was being formed for ■ purely social - and recreation purposes. If there .was anything at all to ovidenco the faot that the members wero using tho club for gambling'purposes, then the proposition ,mado by tho deputation would receive every consideration;' (Hear, : hears.) ' In that event It, would only ho right to do so. Ho.did not think; 'however, that _at present thoy should : pre-judgo itho matter," and say the club was: being established for certain purposes. : Discussion. ' / Mr. North: It was reported in The •Dominion that- ono : of, the promoters "had stated that it would be made a convenient oentre'for sottling up hotting engagements. jVnothor.'member:Such .-an institution would-be in contravention of the spirit, if not , of. tho lettor, of the Act < , ■ Hon., Mr. Carroll: It might mean that, ivluitovcr their contracts outsideWlegal;or illegal—(laughter)—payment should be made jit this placo. - Thoy aro allowed to bet'on a course, and_ their, engagements on the course which remained unpaid might be deferred for : .a particular, time: at'this place.' llev.' Mr. Dowdney: Shaking'on the-Act, Sir 'Josoph .Ward emphasised that it was desirable that gaming should' bo . coined to j racecourses. ''Hon. Mr. Carroll: That is so. • Rov-' Mr. Dewdney: An institution, of this kind might go counter to-that determination,' and open the way to all sorts of other betting transactions.. ■ '• Hon. Mt. Carroll:' You come back to'tho original question—whother tho club is going to be uscd-for gaming purposes. . : , Rov. Mr. Dewdney:. Whothor, the payment of a, bet is a'bot! ' ' ; : Mr. Aitken: It is tho potent part at-any rate. : -. ' Hon. Mr. Carroll: If there is any evidence that tliero is a danger that'such an ovil was being carried on, ostensibly under the/form of a club, thou steps',would at.once bo taken by tho Government. :;: : ; . ; - Mr. Moore: In Sydney,! believe, thoy liavo abolished a certain class <j! clubs, because tlicy became,centres of gambling. Hon.: Mr.:Carroll: No, they . still exist there. Mr.,Moorei I,thought that I read recently, that tho organiser of one of these eltibs. which, 'was closed Mcamfe,an'auctioneer,'and sold the furniture'and'Otlier contents -off the building.' . Hon. Mr. Carroll: Qliere are 'very large institutions tliere.' and: it js' pleaded on thoir behalf that the formation of such clubs'brings together tho higher order—if there is any— (chorus of ,"Ahoms")—of the fraternity. ( 1 bolieye that ;therd 1 are" 'differences' botwoen one section and another. ' .' Dr. Gibb: They are all black under the ' S ' ! Hon.' Mr. Carroll: W011,..1 know that it is . put forward on their' behalf j that the exist- ' once of such clubs brings togethet; tho more circumspect of their order, who rccognis« their status and tcj; to elovato . thcmsolves to

a standard acceptable to the public as against ; those who are undesirables. ' Key. ,Mr. Dewdney :Or it puts .then' in th«; position .of being bettor able, to cvado, the vigilance of the police. , . : Hon. Mr; Carroll: I can't say anything about that. ,• , , ! Dr. Gibb: For ways that are dark and, tricks that are vain they are as celebrated as. John Chinaman himself. ■ (Laughter.) : . Hon. Mr..Carroll:-I don't know that;they will bo 'ablo to escapo the vigilance of those who keep thoir eyes on them.