TOWN BOARDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 294, 5 September 1908, Page 7

TOWN BOARDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

THE WORK OF MINISTERS. ' AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. The report of tho Committeoon the Town Boards Amendment Bill was adopted. On the motion for tho second reading, Mr. H. G. ELL (Christchurch) complained that two or threo Ministers required to be referred to on matters connected with local bodies. Ho suggested that ono Minister should be tho responsible head for all. local body affair's.. , , , The PRIME MINISTER promised to look into the matter. It would mean under tho prosent law that Ministers would havo a dea.l of intorrreferonces ,to make, unless another Minister were appointed, and this was what it would probably mean; but ho did not know whether the, Houso would bo -favourable to that. • Mr. Massey: There are too many nowl Too Many. Sir Joseph Ward: "Too many for tho hon. gentleman, I know, but not too many for the country." He continued that the amount of work of late, had been so great that it moant no man would bo physically ablo to do it. (Hear, hear.) And the country would realise this later on, and whether for the extra expenditure it-would not bo better 'to havo tho work done well without breaking up the public men. Mr. Tanner: The country doesn t know what Ministers have to do. It isn t realised I Tho Prime Minister: "I believe that is so. I recognise that they don't understand and realise tho amount of work'thero is. The popular theory was that tho work could be equally divided among the members of tho Cabinet, but this was impossible. (Hear, hear.) Members would realiee that. (Hear, hoar.) Tho volume of work of tho Departments varied greatly. A Minister had frequently to work l'n his private timo and to work early and late. He would bo glad to look into tho matter raised by . Mr. Ell. Mr. Massey Objects. Mr. MASSEY (Leader of tho Opposition) did not agree with tho necessity for increasing the number of Ministers. He had interjected while tho Prime Minister was speaking that thore were enough Ministers, and he thought so still. Thero wero quito enough, and for quite a number of reasons, too. An Hon. Membor: Thoy want undersecretaries. , Mr. Massey: They did not want undersecretaries. If tho would confiuo ,theinselve3 to. tho important work tho Departments, and leave the detail work to their secretaries and permanent heads .of Departments, tho work would bo very much better dono than it was at present.: . . An Hon. Member: There would ; be aihowl from one end of the country to the other. Mr. Massey: Thero would bo nothing of the sort. It was noticeable.that if-there was a race meeting in, Auckland'or some, function, at Rotorua or other places where tho public congested, Ministers dwayq,foun4itbat.,thoy,i had important duties, calling''.theni to-itbat particular part of tho country. (Interruptions and cries.) . ■ - ' , ~ An Hon. Member: They do their work all the same. , Mr. Massoy: Tho public understood - perfectly well how that matter stood. It was a fact that if there was a post 1 office or a' little school or a bridge, or two-penny hapenny road to be oponpd Ministers were to bo found thoro electioneering for all they woro worth. That was tho sort of work they did instead of attending ,to the business of their Departments. •

His Own Claims. "If," said Mr. Massey, "there, is' any man who has a' right to complain of, the work cast upon him it is tho' Loader of the Opposition." He was not complaining about the work, hut it was a fact that it amounted to moro than that of the' average minister. Tho Premier: That is not so. Mr. Massey: Well, that is my opinion. Tho Premior: Well, you hand over your correspondence to ino for a day to deal with and you will see. (Laughter.) Mr. Massey: "The hon. gentleman should hand over to me 0110 of his secretaries and ho will, hear ho further complaints." As a matter of fact he was not complaining, for | ho could get through the work, but he was stating facts by way of illustration. Ho honestly did not believe tho public realised tho way in which private members' work had incrcasod during the last half-dozen years. It was four times as large as when he entered the House. If a member had any privato business it was impossible to attend to it. But as to Ministers there were a sufficient number of thom.. Mr. M'Nab Speaks. Tho Hon. R.'M'NAB said that all must be agreed that tho amount of work a privato member had to do had increased enormously. (Hear, hear). Compare what it was now to Vhen ho first camo. into tho Houso! And if thero was this heavy incroaso in tho caso of privato members would thero not bo a proportional amount of additional work thrown on to the Ministers? (Hear, hear.) Tho number of .members - in .that time had increased from 74 to 88, and four times tho work was concentrated on the Ministry. What About Under-Secretaries.

An interjection was mado about undersecretaries, and the Hon. M'Nab said it was absolutely essential that Ministers should go into tho details of their departments. Ho showed the amount .of work involved in mailing up tho departmental estimates, and acquiring information thereon during tho recess. A member: The Departmental heads supply you with a good deal of the information! Tho Hon. R. M'Nab; That is so, but.unless you go into matters, yourself and become familiar with them you don't appreciate tho details! He asked the House to imagine what the farmers of the country would think if they asked tho Minister about somo intimate detail , and found that ho knew nothing about it. Supposing be replied that he did not go into matters of detail liko that P Administration of that kind would not bo tolerated. Tho Minister also referred to the visits Ministers had to pay. One of thoir greatest difficulties—at least, it was his experience—was to prevent members of tho House getting thorn to go to their electorates. If Ministers gavo way to all invitations no work would bo done at all. Mr. A. R. BARCLAY (Dunodin) said that even if Ministers did visit somo localities for tho purpose of taking part in functions, thero was hardly a miriuto of that timo timo occupied with work. (Hear, hear.) Somo Alternatives.

Mr. T. MACKENZIE (Waikouaiti) said that territorial representation in tho Ministry limited tho selection,, and triennial Parliaments did not allow tho work to properly settle down. Unless territorial representation was dono away with and triennial Parliaments, it would bo nccossary to incrcaso the number of Ministers. The work was far too heavy. No business firm would expect one man to control moro than ono mililon of capital Tho work could not bo dono as well •is it should. Tako tho Lands for Settlement Department. Tho Minister-in-Chargo should havo plenty of timo.to go over tho wholo of tho areas under his control, and know all tho details necessary. Take also the Education Department. This was an enormous workj

and yet tho Minister bad other Departments to look after, and tho education boards meanwhilo wondered why tho work was not properly carried out. Tho boards had battled for reforms for years but could not get them, and if the Minister had tiino to look after Ins Dopartmont ho would grasp what tho reforms wero,, and would, grant them. Now no had .to learn things through his under-sccro-tary.' "If tho Leader of tho Opposition said Mr. MacKenzic in conclusion, "were to tako the correspondence of tho Primo Minister tor a week and answer it, and tho Primo Minister wero to deal similarly with Mr. Massey s Icttors I think all tho difficulties of tho oouutry would all bo sottled." (Laughter.)

A Strong Advocate. , Mr. G. LAURENSON (Lytteltonj said that as soon as any member advocated an incr'caso in tho Ministry that member was accused of hanging round for a job. _ Ho was going to'tako the risk of accusations and misrepresentation. Ho reforred first to tho increase in private members' work. Twenty years ago a member would spend three months of tho year in Parliament and tho other nino months would bo at his own disposal. Now, in addition to the four or five months ho sat in Parliament, tho wholo of tho remaining period of tho year was taken up , with public business. (Hear, hoar, and' "Including Sundays.") Yes, in-, eluding Sundays 1 If ho got half a clianco he was going to suggest that members bo given an increase in their honorariums. Ho would suggest it to his constituents. At prosent a member received £300 a yoar — (a member: "And pays income tax")—and his 'daily pay was 18s. Id. And tho member had to pay from £100 to £200 to get into"the position at all! He had also to pay all calls made upon him during the recess, and postage and telegram fees, besides which he had to keep two homos going during, the session. Mr. Fisher: That is why thero are ■ so many bachelors 1 Mr. Laurenson: "What is tho not result? As far as I am concerned my net honorarium is about 7s; 3d.'per day." Although ho was not a bankrupt, and lived a fairly quiet life, ho 1 would have been through the bankruptcy court, or would havo had to borrow monoy from his friends, had lie not had something to fall back upon. He mentioned this matter because thero was a wrong impression abroad which should be cleared up. Ho" would' voto for an increase m tho Cabinet and an increase in tho honorarium of members; and as far as tho country was concerned, it would;say: "Good luck to you, old man I (Hear, hear.) Tho third reading of tho Bill Was carriod.

POLICE OFFENCES ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Tho Police Offences Act Amendment Bill camo up for third reading. ~ Mr.. I<\ E. BAUME (Auckland) repeated his remarks in Committee regarding tho necessity for including' further provision to legalise tho salo of refreshments on Sunday. _ Ho referred to the practico of conducting Sunday tea-houses and kiosks. -Tho practice 'at present continued, but it was at tho. samo time illegal. Under tho present system somo wero fined, but the majority were hot. Mr. HORNSBY (Wairarapa) objected to peoplo enjoying themselves at tho exponso and labour of others on Sunday. Mr. FISHER (Wellington) supported Mr. Baume, stating that every member looked upon Sunday as a day of rest, but were thoy going to object to tJioso shop assistants and others who wanted to go out into God's sunshine : on. their one day in the week having some simplo refreshment? Tho dob&to continued at soma length on. the lines of tho : discussion in Committoo, which'was fully reported a few days ago. Tho general opinion" was, however, that eitlksr tho salo or tea on Sunday should bo legal or it should bo generally stoppc.d. Tho MINISTER FOR JUSTICE (the Hon. J. .M'Gowan) 'said that if tho amendment of 'tho momber for Auckland had been accepted it would have opened tho: way, to all kinds of abuses. He had had, ii clauso drawn which wouldVbo. -introdu'cecL',iii,..the. Uppor House, and it would enable the refreshments to be obtained as at prosent, though keeping the Continental Sunday at arm's length, and preventing tho continuance of tho ordinary week's work 011 Sunday. Tho Bill was read a third time.