1).—4

88

M. LUCKIE.

Statement by Mr. Luckie. (No. 81.) Mr. Luckie: There is some evidence which _was given before the Public Petitions Committee in 1910 by a Mr. R. B. McKenzie, who is since deceased, and \ would like to put a copy of the evidence in. It is as follows : — R, B, MoKbnzh examined. The Chairman : What are you, Mr. McKonzie ? —I am a farmer in tho Manawatu County, and a member of the County Council. I have been Chairman of the County Council, and of Road Boards. Toll Uβ what you know about this mattor ?- The first thing I wish the Committee to clearly understand is tho exact position of the line. This map, unfortunately, does not show it very well. The County of Manawatu is between the River Rangitikoi and Oroua [pointing to map]. From Foxton to Himatangi there are about six miles of Government railway; then it turns and goes through Palmerston to Greatford. Tins six miles to here [indicating on map] has beon constructed. That is a working Government line. From thero [indicating on map] tho Council has carried the lino on to Sandon and Pukeuui, within five miles of Greatford. Tho Government allow us to run our trams ovor this portion [indicating on map] of the Government line. For instance, we load chaff at Sandon. We run straight in to Foxton over that portion of the Government line [indicating on map]. We take, say, a truck of coal from Foxton : that is put on to our tramway at Himatangi. The tram runs through almost the contro of the county, alongside the County Main Road, and all the branch roads are feeders to it. What we asked for is a connection at Greatford (there have been various schemes) at various times was for tho connection. That portion of the line there [indicating on map] was authorized during tho time the late Mr. Macandrcw was Minister of Public Works —from Greatford to Bull's. I noticed tho other day that Sir Joseph Ward was quoting lines authorized. He had this line in as one suggested, but did not quote it as a line authorized, but I understand from Mr. J. G. Wilson that portion of the line was authorized in Mr. Macandrew's time. Wo got Mr. Fulton, Enginoor, at one time to make an estimate of the cost of carrying the line to Bull's. Ho estimated it could be carriod across the present traffic-bridge [indicated on map] at a very small cost, Ilis estimate of the extension to Bull's, a distance of 1 mile 51 chains, being something under £3,000. The Chairman : Including the cost of strengthening the bridge ?—No. When we submitted the matter to the Government they said tho bridge would require to bo strengthened. £2,650 was tho exact estimate for the 1 mile 51 chains, and that is the most expensive part. Then we applied for permission to connect here, Greatford. [indicatod on map], but wo met with a flat refusal from the Government, and. we think it is rather hard. We have contributed our full share to the cost of the railways of the Dominion, and have mado practically all the roads in our county. Certainly wo have made them without any special assistance from tho Government. In addition we have spent some £27,000 on our tram, and we find that while the Government are willing to provide sidings' for private individuals, they flatly refuse to givo us what we ask for —which is oqual to a private siding to us. In tho meantime, having spent all that money, we still find ourselvos without tho advantages we consider we are ontitled to. The distance from Greatford to Himatangi by rail is forty-four miles. By the shortened route it is twenty-two miles— oxactly half tho distance; and that docs not represont the saving altogether, because wo still have to connect with Rongotea. From Greatford to Himatangi is forty-four miles; then we have to go up by tram again nine miles, which makes tho distance fifty-three from Greatford to Rongotea by rail, as against fourteen milos by the proposed route. It is sixty-one miles round here [indicating on map] to Pukenui, but only five miles by proposed route. Mr. Drew has given some figures in rela-tion to the amount of traffic that is carried. I would just emphasize this point: that there is absolutely no timbor loft in the County of Manawatu— neither sawing nor fencing timber. A great deal of it was originally open country, and what bush there was has been cleaned out. Therefore, the whole of the timber comes from the north, and, as Mr. Drow has pointed out, thero were 838,000 ft. of timbor taken down here [indicating on map] and that was hauled all that way round about. Now, thore is a point I would liko to impress on you gentlemen, and that is in regard to what has been stated to tho effect that this would be an opposition line to tht> Government. Tt is nothing of tho kind. It has been more of a feeder to the Government line. That 838,000 ft. of timber would novor havo been brought down to Himatangi by tho Government if it were not for the tram, because on this portion of tho line into Foxton [indicating on map] thero is absolutely no metal. Until we constructed the tramway wo could not metal our roads. We have metalled all our cross-roads by this means. People would not send their stuff round to Himatangi and cart it from there, because thero was no road. Practically none of that 838,000 ft. of timber would have come round to Himatangi but for the tramway. It would have been put off at Greatford, and carted from there. Instead, of working against tho Government the line has been mado a feeder for tho Government railways. Mr. Pearce : That would not be so if you connected ?—The position then would be this :At the present time tho •j* bulk of our timbor comes from Ohakune. (Thore is a butter-box factory at Rongotea ; the owner of the factory also owns a sawmill at Ohakune.) Tho question now is whether that traffic is of any use to the Government. From Ohakuno to Himatangi is 130 miles, and from Ohakune to Greatford is eighty-six miles. Tho tariff from Ohakune to Greatford would be 35., to Himatangi 3s. (id. The Government, when they have carried it to Groatford for 35., carry that additional • forty-four miles for 6d. on the railway, and the question is, does it pay the Government ? In passing through Foilding trucked timbor has to be shunted up and down. Tt goes down to Palmerston, then to Longburn, and then on to Himatangi. Certainly 6d. is a very small amount for carrying for forty-four miles. The minimum charge for timber for eight miles is Bd. But I submit this is not an alien company, and that we aro not trying to rob the Government. We own the railways. The railways belong to the people of the country. Wo are ratepayers in that country. We have paid our full share for the cost of the railways. Even supposing tho Government lost by that portion of the line, surely we are entitled to have the shorter and bettor route. Surely it is in the interests of progress to shorten tho distance, and give us the most convenient route. That, I understand, is the function of the Government. I hope you will oxcuso mo for taking up so much of your timo, but I have come a long way at my own expenso to give evidence in this matter. As to the traffic, what I want to show at the present time is that wo are not robbing the Government lino, but we are losing traffic oursolves. Our butter (and there are three factories in tho district, also nine creameries, I think) is cartod to Longburn, or to Groatford or to Longburn. If we had tho tram connoctod wo would rail the stock hero [indicating on map] and go to Wanganui. Our stock is driven and our butter is cartod. Our wool goes down to Foxton for shipment. If connected we would have the advantage, convenience, and profit of the connection, without the Government losing anything : as a matter of fact, they would bo gainers. Last year we sent 400 tons of grass-seed away, and you know, gentlemen, grass-seed is required in bush country. We got in last year over 400 tons of manuro, and it all comes and goes by rail. It goes down to Himatangi and goes up by rail. If it were not for the tramway it could not have gone that way, and Govornmont would lose it. The most important matter of all is the connection for timber and fencing-material. Then there is tho saving in distance, the saving on the wear-and-tear on our roads, the profits that would go on to our trams by reason of the increased rovenuo, and tho incroased traffic on tho Government lino, which would more than counterbalance anything that would be taken from it. The Govornmont would also be able to use tho tramway for mail-carrying. Tho Government are paying at tho present timo for mails, from Himatangi to two milos up the line, by cart, £30. The cost for carrying mails fourteen miles by thorn is £10, and that is the only mail wo get paid for. They are paying £60 for the mail-carrying to Greatford, and another £00 from Sandon to Bull's. The tramway would be able to carry the mails at a choapor rato. Thore aro at the prosont timo four coaches daily between Greatford and Bull's, which gives some indication of tho traffic. Thero is the coach from Sandon to Bull's and Greatford, one from the Government State farm at Ohakoa, and from Sandon, to Feilding and Palmorston ; thore are two coaches daily from Rongotea to Feilding and Palmerston, and one from Rongotea to Carnarvon. That gives an indication of the amount of traffic that goes away from the line. I should have said at the beginning, in describing the country, that the land through which the tramway would run is good land. Mr. James Mackenzie, Chief Surveyor and Commissioner of Crown Lands, says in his description of the Wellington Land District, and referring to this particular part of the coast,