M. LUCKIE.]

89

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" This is some of the finost land in the Dominion " ; and fnrthor on, " A large block of land was so nearly level that it might bo called a plain extending from Paekakariki to Marton, and containing about half a million acres." " Some of the best farming and grazing land in the Dominion " (Official Year-book, 1910, page 777). Ido not think there is anything else I can say. Perhaps I have not made ray statement very clear, but what I have done is this: I have brought before you the feeling we have in tho matter ourselves. We are struggling to better our district, and. by bettering our district we would be bettering tho whole Dominion. The Chairman : What you really want is to get the Government to connect Pukenui to Greatford so as to tap tho main line, or to obtain leave to do the work yourselves ? —Yes. We have not come to ask for a sum of money, but wo do humbly petition to be allowed to find tho money ourselves, and do the work for ourselves. Mr. Nosworthy : Am I to understand that you would never have extended tho tramway system as close to the Government line if it had not been for Mr. Macandrew's promise that he would connect it ?—No, I do not mean to infer that. In describing a portion of the line I said it had been authorized. Mr. Forbes : Would it not be a great bonofit to you if your lino were carried in close proximity to the railway without tho connection ?—lf you had to cart stuff for 2 chains, and load it on trucks again, and take it on to Bull's, it would be useless on account of the extra handling. Mr. J. Duncan : The application to extend, you stated, met with a flat refusal from tho Government ?—Yos. I will explain that. This portion of the line here will have to be formed under the Tramways Act. When making an application to the Government for a loan for roads we can make provisional application, and the Government says whether monoys are available or not, but tinder tho Tramways Act wo have to provide detailed surveys, &c. It would have cost something like £400 or £500 before wo could havo found out what the Government, would do in the matter. Under these circumstances, our Chairman and myself came down and interviewed Sir Joseph Ward, and he promised that if we would put in writing a question of whether or not we would be allowed to connect ho would give us a reply. We then said, " Supposing we went through all the formula, would you grant permission to connect ? " The reply was that he would not allow us to connect. The line had been offered to the Government on several occasions, and we are prepared to hand it over at any timo on conditions to be arranged, and one of the conditions would certainly be that the lino be connected. We will hang on to the line otherwise, as the only inducement to part would be to get that connection. Wore there no reasons given as to why permission could not be granted ?—I think the answer was that the Government would not give permission to any one. You are an old resident of the district ?—I have been there for half a contury. Did you havo to make application for the line to Foxton ?—Yes. That was a long timo ago, and we paid for our private sidings there. There is no annual charge, but we have to pay for the trucks we run over the line at the rate of ss. per truck, also truck-hire and totes. The Chairman : You have your own engine ? —Yes. We use tho Government rolling-stock. • Mr. Duncan : You got that concession without any trouble at all ? —I do not think thero was any objection raised. It was not inimical to the interests of the Government line ? —lt was looked upon as a feeder. The Chairman : What would bo tho cost of Pukenui to Greatford ?—I think, roughly, £2,000 a mile, and say another £1,000 for strengthening the bridge. About £12,000 would do the whole thing. It has not cost us quite £2,000 a mile so far. Mr. Newman : You are a member of the County Council ? —Yes. You know that the Council are quite willing that tho Government take this line over at cost ?—Well, we have discussed the matter several times, and so far as I am concerned I am quite willing to vote for handing over the line to tho Government at any timo, on condition that the Government make the connection. Has there been a large increase in traffic on the line lately ?— Yes, a very considerable one. Less than two years ago we were only running three trams a week (unless there happened to be something special on), but now we run five a week and even then find sometimes that we have too big a load. There has been a new industry started at Sandori in the grass-seed industry ? —There were some 400 tons of grassseed sent out last year by tram besides what went by road. This industry is going ahead very much—the grass-seed is being sent up the Main Trunk line to a large extent ?— Yos, principally for the reason that there are no noxious weeds in Sandon. How does that grass-seed go up the Main Trunk line ?—lt goes from Sandon down to Himatangi and round that way [indicating on map]. How much longer doos it take to send the grass-seed on account of there being no connection ?—From Pukenui to Greatford by rail and tram is sixty-one miles, and the other way would be five. *-** The refusal from the Railway Department was because this line would enter into competition with the Government railway ?—I do not know that for certain. I did hear the Hon. Mr. Millar state that he would not favour anything that was going to compete with the Government line, which I thought was unfair. Do you think this connection would increase the traffic on tho Government line ?—I think, on the whole, it would. Stock has now to be driven : it would go by rail if the connection were made ? —Yes, a groat portion of it would. The Chairman : Between receipts and expenditure you do not seem to havo much profit, after paying your way ?— It amounts to this, that all we make off the tram goes to improve it. I should have explained that the original line was laid, with 28 lb. rails, and now most of the way has been rclaid with new 40 lb. rails. Money has gone also in purchasing an engine and in improving grades, so that if we make £100 it is spent on improvements. The consequence of this is that our tramwa,y working account is showing a loss the whole timo, but on tho other hand it is showing a profit on capital account. Over .0,000 has been spent out of earnings during the past five years in improvements over and above work-ing-expenses. How much do you reckon you are saving on the maintenance of roads by having the tram ?■— It is very hard to tell, but the cartago of 838,000 ft. of timber alone over the roads would make a serious difference to them. I know that the cartage of 30,000 ft. down near tho Oroua Bridge left the road in such a state that wo had to close it for heavy traffic. It was through a swampy part of the country. It does save heavy expenditure on roads I—Yes.1 — Yes. We do not carry nearly all the grass-seed, becauso some of it is carted now to Foilding —neither the Government railway nor ourselves get it. The Chairman : The Minister of Railways is here, and as he is due at another Committee before he goes he might say a few words.

John Alfbed Bush sworn and examined. (No. 32.) 1. Mr. Sherrett."] What are you?— Manager of the Rangataua Timber Company, and also of the Marton Sash and Door Company. 2. How long have you been connected with the sawmilling industry?— About eleven years. ?>. The mills belonging to your company are situated where?—At Rangataua and Horopito. 4. What place would you regard as the centre of the sawmilling industry in the North Island? —Ohakune is the centre of the sawmilling industry, in so far as the ordinary timbers arc concerned. That is the principal loading-station on the line, l>. Is timber a profitable freight for the railways?—l believe so. It compares favourably with other freights, and thero is a higher rate per weight than any other class in comparison with its value.

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