I,—3a.

2

\W. F. MASSKY, M.P.

Mr. Massey: For the next meeting of the Committee. Mr. Joshua Jones is in Wellington, and there will be no difficulty in getting him at the next meeting. Mr. Massey then withdrew, and the Committee decided to fix Tuesday, the 22nd August, as the date for further proceedings, the witnesses named by Mr. Massey to be summoned for that day and the following day.

Tuesday, 22nd August, 1911. William Ferguson Masset, M.P., in attendance, and examined. (No. 2.) The Chairman: Before going on I want to draw attention to the report of last Friday's proceedings that appears in the New Zealand Herald of Saturday, 19th August. It states who were present, and so on, and it reads in this way : "In reply to a question, the Chairman said he did not want to narrow the inquiry in any way. Through his speech he had been made a party to the matter." Obviously that is a mistake —probably in telegraphing. It is a Press Association message, but I notice in the Press Association reports in the other papers it reads in this way : "In reply to a question from the Chairman, Mr. Massey said he did not want," &c. This is rather important, because the New Zealand Herald report makes me a party to the inquiry. Mr. Massey: It evidently refers to me. The Chairman: The Committee will be pleased to hear your statement now, Mr. Massey. Mr. Massey: I had thought it would not be necessary for me to make a statement, seeing that the statements I made at Auckland and in the House have practically led up to the inquiry being hold. However, I have committed to writing a statement of the position as it ajppears to me, and with your permission I propose to read it: — (1.) The Mokau-Mohakatino Blocks, consisting of 53,000 acres of land, were leased by Mr. Joshua Jones from the Native owners for fifty-six years from July, 1882. (2.) With the object of providing sufficient capital to develop the property, Mr. Jones mortgaged his interests to an English firm. (3.) In course of time the mortgagees foreclosed, and the property was sold in New Plymouth by order of the Registrar of the Suprame Court, and was bought in by the representatives of the mortgagees. (4.) Ihe mortgagees, having become the owners of the leasehold interests, sold such interests privately to Mr. Herrman Lewis. (5.) Mr. Herrman Lewis mortgaged the property to the English firm from whom he had purchased it, or their representatives, for the amount of the purchase-money or thereabouts. (6.) Messrs. Findlay and Dalziell were solicitors for Mr. Herrman Lewis, and mortgagees of that individual's interest to the amount of £1,000. (7.) Mr. Herrman Lewis apparently approached the Government, through his solicitors or otherwise, and the result was that an Order in Council was issued so as to enable him to purchase the whole block from the Native owners, by so doing avoiding the provisions with regard to limitation of area in the Native Land Act, 1909. (8.) A meeting of " assembled owners " was held at Te Kuiti, and an offer was made by Herrman Lewis to purchase the freehold. His offer was declined. Another meeting was held, and adjourned; and at the adjourned meeting it was decided to accept £25,000 in cash and £2,500 worth of shares in a company to be formed, for the freehold of the land. That works out to 10s. 4£d. per acre; and it has been stated that the meeting was not properly representative of the Native owners. (9.) A meeting of the Executive was held on the 15th March of this year, the Hon. James Carroll presiding, when it was agreed to authorize the alienation of the land referred to by Order in Council. A meeting of the Maori Land Board was held at Te Kuiti on the 22nd March, when the sale was confirmed, but the Gazette with the Order in Council was not published until the 30th March, or a week after the sale had been confirmed by the Maori Land Board. (10.) The company does'not propose to part with its mineral rights to the new settlers, so that, with the other blocks o"f Native land in the same locality the leases of which are held by the company or members of the company, they will possess what will practically amount to a monopoly of the coal-bearing areas on the west coast of the Taranaki Provincial District. Now, there are the main facts; and I submit to you, Mr. Chairman, and to the members of the Committee, that up to the present time they have not been contradicted or proved to be incorrect, or even explained away. Ido not profess to be strictly accurate in the whole of the details, because it is impossible for any one to be accurate in such matters unless he has the run of the Departments —unless he is able to obtain his information from the departmental officers; and I need hardly say that such information is, under ordinary circumstances, denied to private members of the House. The Chairman: It can be ordered by the Committee to be produced. Mr. Massey: Exactly. That, I take it, is the object of the inquiry, and I sincerely hope that every detail will be made public. The transaction is a matter of great public interest, and I think it is right the people of the country, through their representatives in Parliament, should know as much as possible of what has taken place. Speaking for myself, and as a member of Parliament, I am very strongly of opinion that the Government have made a serious mistake in allowing the Mokau Block to be purchased by private individuals. I think the proper thing under the circumstances would havo been for the Government to have purchased the block in the ordinary way from the Native owners and from the lessees for what it was worth The Chairman: Might I interrupt you at this stage? You are really now making comments. Mr. Massey: I am simply expressing my own opinion on what has taken place, and I was just to conclude by saying that I believe the proper thing would have been for the Government