(i. T BOOTH.]

77

I.—9a.

might consider it a matter of indifference whether the Board resigns or not, but i think they must regard the position of the men who are put in a position of trust by the ratepayers, and whose confidence must be taken into account. 30. Of course, the employees have an appeal to the public at the election every three years? Yes. 37 With regard to the car report-book, you say generally that your present system is a very satisfactory one? —Yes, we could not use a book so well as a sheet that passes from hand to hand. 38. Mr O'Shea.] What do you think would be the effect of clause 3, providing for motormen's certificates, in case of a strike? —I think it is always dangerous to set up a privileged class, and I think that would happen if the motormen were licensed by the Government and had preference of employment. They would have the rules and regulations and the service at their mercy 39. Is it a fair statement to make that it would be placing the control of the trams in the hands of the employees? —I think it is. Section 9 rather lends point to that, where it says the motorman shall enter in the book ' any report he thinks fit. ' 40. I gather you think that expresses the whole feeling of the Bill? —Yes, in three words it shows the whole attitude so far as the motormen are concerned. There are duties imposed on the Board in strong mandatory terms, with penal clauses attached, but when it comes to the motorman the Legislature goes to him as though he were a minor deity, and says, " Here's your duty : you can discharge it if you think fit." 41 There has been a suggestion that there might be favouritism in passing men : has there been any favouritism in your service? —Not so far as 1 am aware. 42. Did you ever hear of a boat called the " Duco " ?—Yes. 43. Did you ever hear of the marine scandal? —I have no knowledge of it. 44. Do you know that the Duco " was inspected by a Government Inspector and found to be seaworthy ? —Yes. 45. And that she foundered because she was unseaworthy ?—Yes. 46. You have been to Sydney?— Yes. 47 Who owns the tramways there ?—The Government. 48. Is there overcrowding there? —The overcrowding there is greater than in any city in New Zealand, and you will find that to be so as you get into larger and larger cities. 49 Mr Bosser ] With regard to the Government certificate provided for in clause 2, you stated that the Board would pay no regard to a Government certificate unless the man came up to the Board's requirements? —Yes. 50. Do you take character into consideration? —Yes. 51 Did I understand you to say you took size into consideration ?—Yes. 52 In what way does the size of a man, with your air brakes, require to be taken into consideration? —The man's height has an effect on the way in which he handles the apparatus. He has to handle it high up in the car, and if he is short it is inconvenient to get up to this contrivance. At any rate, the Board concluded in its wisdom that it was of some consideration, and we do not appoint a man as motorman unless he comes up to a certain stature. 53. Do you take height into consideration? —Yes. 54. You do not require weight to be taken into consideration?—l do not think we do, but 1 suppose that will be taken in connection with stature. 55. Have you any minimum height?—l believe there is, but you willhave to ask Mr Thompson that question. I cannot tell you from memory what it is. 56. With regard to age, have you a minimum age?— Yes, I believe we have. I cannot tell you what it is. 57 Did I understand you to say that under the Inspection of Machinery Act you had known of certificates being granted that were not warranted? —I know a considerable number of men holding certificates under the Machinery Act whom I should not consider suitable as motormen. 58. But as engine-drivers? —I presume they are able to drive engines. 59 Are you referring to certificates of service or competency ?—Both. 60. You said you must have a considerable reserve of motormen?—We should like to have, but as a matter of fact the difficulty is to maintain a sufficient reserve—they so frequently change and then leave. Ido not think we discharge men. 61 I understand it goes up to 20 per cent, in the year?—l think that is right. The number who have left the service during the last five years is about equal to 20 per cent, per year 62. Is it because of dissatisfaction with your working-conditions that these men leave? —Not so far as lam aware. Ido not think there is much dissatisfaction with our men. 63. Do you know whether there is any dissatisfaction with the management? —I have heard no complaints at all since the management was changed. 64. Have you heard of any dissatisfaction with the present mode of appealing ?—I cannot say that I have. Of course, a man who thinks he is treated unjustly and does not get his appeal through naturally would complain. That is to be expected in the natural order of things. 65. You have by-laws in connection with your Board? —Yes, we have rules and regulations. 66 I suppose you agree with Mr Pearce that there are no municipal by-laws with regard to overcrowding?—The City Council have no control over the tram-cars. 66a. No. 21 of the Board's by-laws —will you just look at that: " No passenger or other person not being a servant of the Board shall travel on any car otherwise than on a seat provided for passengers"? —Yes. 67 Therefore I take it that your cars, by your own by-law, are required to carry the number seated: is that so?— Yes. 68. No. 22: "No person not being a servant of the Board shall travel or loiter on the steps