I.—9a.

56

H. CAETER.

154. That is not a nice opinion to hold of the employers? —If they gave us the book we should have a better opinion of them. 155. Do you not think your opinion of them is a little bit tainted? —No, I know them. 156. Do you not think you are much more likely to get independent reports from the men if you have separate sheets? —No, for the simple reason that when 1 worked under the loose-leaf system I booked what I considered to be a defect on the sheet, and when my relief mate sees that he sees what I have put down. 157 And his report is not, therefore, independent?—lt is quite independent, but he sees what I put down. A responsible motorman will not book anything according to another man's booking. He is quite honest. 158. Your point is this: that the men are perfectly honest, and the management are dishonest in saying that the loose-leaf system is more convenient?—l think the management have the loose-leaf system to prevent the history of a car being known. 159 Then you think that a man should be entitled at all times to look back and see the history of a car ?—Undoubtedly 160. Supposing there is an accident, do you think a man should be entitled to look up the history of the car before he makes his own report of the accident?— Yes. 161 Do you not think that might be calculated to lead him to make—quite honestly—a report that was really not independent?—l do not think so. 162. Can you not conceive the possibility of that happening?— Nothing is impossible. 163. Can you not see the probability of that happening? —No. There would not be one man in fifty who would look back to the record of a car 164. Then, if not one man in fifty would look back to the record of a car, why should you insist upon the car report-book instead of the present system of loose leaves?—The principal reason for the support I give to the Government clause is that a man may know the history of his car — that because of seeing the defect-book he will be able to see if the defect is rectified before he takes the car out of the barn again That is why the book is left in Sydney, and no one is allowed to remove it. 165. Is there anything to prevent a man getting a copy of his loose-leaf of the car every day? —I do it. 166. Then, if not one in fifty looks back over the record of the car, and if it is possible for a man to take a copy of his daily defect-sheet, and you yourself do it, what is the point you make in insisting upon the car report-book when the management tell you that the other system is much more convenient from their point of view? —I said it was possible to take a duplicate account of your bookings, but it may not be lawful. 167. Have you bean told it was not lawful?—l have not given them an opportunity to tell me. 168. Have you done it secretly? —No, I have done it openly enough. 169. Then it has been seen and no objection has been taken? —No. 170. Why should you be so suspicious, and why say that it may not be lawful? You seem to be making all sorts of suggestions against the management, and some of them., I suggest to you, are without justification. I just want you to say what is in your mind, so that you can give us an opportunity to answer it. I suppose you were allowed to make copies, if you chose to do so, of the defect-sheets, and if the management said, as they do to-day, that that system is more convenient to them than the car report-book, will you still insist on the car report-book? —When we first started the cars in Auckland they had the loose-leaf system, and it was found to be unsatisfactory Then we had the open volume, which was perfectly satisfactory until the history of a car was looked up. It was then done away with, and the loose-leaf system readopted. 171 That does not answer my question. I will repeat the question, If the men were allowed to take copies of their daily sheets, if they chose to do so, would you still insist on the car reportbook? Yes, for the simple reason that I want to look up defects that may have been booked up overnight, before taking the car out in the morning. 172. Do you think a motorman should make such a report as he thinks fit, or should he bs limited to reports on certain matters? —He should not be limited in any way whatever in booking a oar up. 173. That is to say, that he should make such report as he thinks fit? Yes, in his own language. 174. Do you not think the management are entitled to direct as to the matters on which they particularly want a report, or do you think it should be left to the men themselves?— They do direct now 175. Do you think that is right, or should the matter of reporting be left to the men as they think fit? The managers always have solicitors and auditors to make all their reports on any defects that exist, but they do not always rectify them. 176. The Bill provides that it shall be the duty of every motorman to enter any defect in the mechanism or equipment of the car on which he is employed as he thinks fit. I ask you whether that should be left as it is or to the direction of the tramway management as to the particular matters on which they want him to report? —The wording of the clause is quite plain to me. 177 Is that what you prefer? —Employers can say what they like, but we want the open book. 178. Do you agree with this that a man who might be an excellent motorman might not be a competent inspector ? —I agree with that. 179. Do you agree then that the matter of promotion is not necessarily a matter of seniority? That is so; it requires record as well. 180. Supposing the management thought an excellent motorman would not be suitable as aii inspector, do you think their opinion should be subject to review by a Board of Appeal?— Yes.