I.—9a.

36

[p. EICHABDSON

4:5. What was the result?—He was warned by the Mayor The car had left at the bottom of the street with the correct number of passengers. Being a ear that was full up, and there being a number of cars ahead of him, it was necessary for him in going up Queen Street to slow up, and then other passengers boarded the car One lowered the chain and others got over the chain. This we have absolute evidence of 46. And he was warned not to let that happen again? —Yes. 47 Do you consider that if the limitation of passengers were in the hands of the Government it would be better than it is at present in the hands of the Council? —Yes, I think so. 48. Take paragraph (d) of claxise 5, the limitation of speed?—l think there should be Government supervision of the speed. 49. In your seven and a half years' experience as a motorman has there been any increase in the number of cars on the particular lines? —Yes, there has been 100 per cent, at least increase. 50. They run in Auckland mostly on one set of lines up Queen Street or Wellesley Street? — Yes. There are two outlets at the top of Queen Street. 51 Has there been any increase of time allowed for the journey owing to the increase in the number of cars during your seven and a half years' experience ?—There have been two slight increases and two reductions. On certain lines there has been no increase. 52. What do you drive on ?■—On the Kingsland line. As far as Kingsland is concerned we have now a very complicated traffic. Mount Eden and Dominion Road are new sections, and all these cars leave Symonds Street and traverse a portion of Kingsland on the same line. 53 In order to run to your time-table you have to make up time on particular portions of the line? —Yes, that is the custom. 54. Take Symonds Street, for instance: is that a place for making up time?— Yes. 55. At what rate would you say you come down Symonds Street at times? —I have a very fair idea of speed, and I unquestionably think there are times when we come down Symonds Street at thirty miles an hour 56. Do you think that is a safe speed to travel at out of the boundary of the city?—l have really to say Yes and no, because we have to do it to maintain the time-table; and, on the other hand, I think it is excessive within the precincts of the city 57 I suppose it is safe if there is nothing in the road?— That is so. 58. What about the steam-roller? There is a record for New Zealand on that line for knocking over a steam-roller weighing over 20 tons? —Yes. The motorman was dciving a combination car down Symonds Street when he had a collision with a steam-roller, and took its wheel off. It took nearly a week to fix up the steam-roller. 59. Did anything happen to the motorman?—Yes, I think he was suspended, and shortlj afterwards his dismissal followed. 60. Take subclause (c) of clause 5: Do you think that clause is necessary?—My reason is this, that I have been interested in representing the union or employees at a number of Coroner's inquests when there have been repeated requests that lifting-jacks should be carried on the cars; and I think there should be a better system with regard to having easy access to the jacks. Unfortunately a motorman feels his position very keenly when he has any one under his car, and there have been unnecessary delays in obtaining the jacks. 61 Do you think the presence of lifting-jacks would enable a body to be taken out in ten minutes instead of, say, twenty minutes ?—Yes, I think it could have been taken out in five minutes by men experienced in the use of jacks. There are times when probably lives could be saved. 62. Take clause 6, the Appeal Board: Do you consider there is an absolute necessity for this clause in the Bill? —I do. lam strongly in favour of an Appeal Board. 63. Do you consider it is more needed with a private company than with a corporation?— Yes, I think so. 64-. Are you satisfied with the present system of dealing with dismissals in the Auckland service?— No. At present the general manager probably in the first instance dismisses a man. If that man thinks he has been unfairly dealt with, he lays his case before the Tramway Union. The Tramway Union then makes application to the general manager for a hearing before the two directors, which as a rule is acceded to , but the union is not allowed to take any part at all in the procedure before those two directors—the man has practically to fight his own case; whereas, on the other hand, the general manager invariably assists the officer who has brought the charge against the employee. I might say that the secretary and president of the union are permitted to be there, but not to take any active part at all. 65. Then the Board of Appeal in Auckland consists of the two directors?— Yes and we do not think it is likely the two directors will reverse the decision of the general manager unless actually forced in some way or another 66. Is the general manager present during the deliberations on the case?— Yes, he is present there the whole time. 67 After the motorman has withdrawn? —Yes, and after the union officials have withdrawn. 68. You were in the service when the strike of 1906 took place, were you not?— That is so. 69. And also that of 1908?— That is so. In both those cases, I think, had there been an Appeal Board in Auckland, and had the two conductors who were dismissed got fair treatment, there would have been no strike either in 1906 or 1908. They were both for wrongful dismissal in the eyes of the other men, and in both those cases the decision was upheld. 70. There was a special Board appointed to deal with the latter one?— Yes, under the Arbitration Court. 71. And you remember what the union asked for was the reinstatement of Conductor Herdson, and it was granted by this special Board?— Yes. The special Board was constituted by two repre-