P. BICHABDSON i

35

I.—9a.

22 And would lie be competent to take up a position in the Auckland service if it were open for him ?^-Yes. 23. Is the examination of a candidate by the company uniform? —No. There have been candidates who have been put forward and others who have been rejected where the motorman who trained them has said they were qualified. One was a case where a man had served a number of years as a conductor, and whose name is Houghton. Three motormen testified to the fact that he was a very capable man, and a fourth had spoken rather disparagingly of him, but the three were men of long standing That man has been rejected three times. 24. You can conclude from that that he is not wanted as a motorman ?—That is so. He was also put through a very severe examination—so severe that probably it would have taken a man, say, of my own standing, at least ten minutes to have located the difficulty, and that eventually prevented him from getting through as a motorman. 25. Then you conclude that the Government examination would be more uniform?— Yes, and I should say fairer 26. Clause 3—inspection of tramways by a Government Inspector at any time: are you in favour of that?— Yes. 27 Will you give a reason?—The reason is this: In the first instance, we know that the Government Inspector passes the car, but in Auckland there is a case where a car was practically rebuilt. That car was No. 49, and there was no second examination before it was allowed to take up its running on the road. I think unquestionably that where a car is remodelled there should be somebody in authority to go and inspect that car 28. You are aware that at present the Department has only the power to inspect a car after an accident: do you understand that that is the only power they have?— Yes. 29. Do you consider it right that the Government should have the liability of inspection at any or at all times? —Yes, from our standpoint as drivers, unquestionably 30. Take clause 5, subclause (c), providing for the limtiation of overcrowding : are you in favour of that subclause?—Strongly in favour of it. My reason is this There was a time when I first joined the service when we were not carrying " strap-hangers.' Then we drifted back to carrying as many passengers as we could get on the cars. That led to difficulties, and we decided in the union that we should only carry the licensed number. 31 When was that?—ln 1907 We had practically got this into ship-shape, and the general public were apparently satisfied with the order of the union, when the City Council decided to amend that by-law, which they did, and since then we have had ' strap-hanging ' on a gradual scale, from eight on a small car up to fourteen on a big car 32. And none on a combination car?— None on a combination car. 33. A big car is seated for how many?— Fifty-six. 34. And fourteen " strap-hangers " —that would be seventy?— Yes. 35. It took some time to pass that by-law? —Yes, about three months in all. 36. During those three months how was the traffic managed?—l can conscientiously say that during that three months it worked fairly well as far as the traffic was concerned. Unquestionably we could maintain our time-table with simplicity, and the passengers had a very comfortable time. .Repeated reports go in from passengers in connection with the conduct of conductors. 37 During that time there were no complaints of jostling?— None whatever I might state that from the motorman's point of view he feels far safer also, because in the event of an emergency and the conductor being required to make speedy application of the rear brakes it is easy to get at them. 38. With all cars except two the motorman use the hand-brake?— Yes, the ratchet brake. 39. Is there any special need with the hand-brake to have a clear passage so that the conductor can get to the rear brake? —Yes. Serious accidents have been avoided by the conductor or a passenger having made a speedy application of the ratchet brake at the back. One man named White got promotion for the good work he put in on a car The motorman had been leaning out of the side gate and his head came into contact with one of the centre poles, and he was knocked off. That occurred in Wellesley Street East. 40. Do you know the grade of that street —is it 1 in 14? —About that. I thought it was 1 in 15 or 16. This conductor, seeing the car gaining speed, looked through the car to see what had happened to the motorman, and he immediately applied the ratchet brake and brought the car up. If. that car had gone careering down Wellesley Street East the consequences would have been serious. 41. Do you think he could have done that with an overcrowded car?—No, he would not have noticed that the motorman had gone. 42. This was in 1907 : have you had any trouble with overcrowding since? —Yes. Now, in the event of a conductor leaving a terminus or proceeding on his journey with one under his licensed number, you have the tramway officials to penalize him and give him a " Please explain " —that is, a report he is called upon to answer why it occurred, and too many of these would mean dismissal. 43 And suppose he has one over his number ?—Then he has the City Traffic Inspector, who would bring him before the Tramways Committee of the City Council to show cause why he carried too many That is, he would have to show cause why his license should not be cancelled. 44. Have the union any case where a conductor has been called down to show cause why his license should not be cancelled for overcrowding?— There was one glaring case —that of Conductor Maples. He got a communication from the Traffic Inspector to attend before the Tramways Committee to show cause why his license should not be cancelled for having either four or five passengers in excess.