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en a certain number of cars in a system. I have never heard it suggested that speed-indicators should be fitted on all cars. In fact, in Auckland we want to get a reliable speed-indicator for the purpose of training our men; but the Brakes Commission brought out the fact that the motormen had a remarkably good idea of the speed at which they were running. 114. When you say ' remarkably," do you mean, remarkably accurate idea of the speed?— Yes, remarkably accurate. 115 You say that that was the opinion of the Koyal Commission of Professor Scott and Mr Beattie?—Yes. In many instances the motormen on the flat were told to run at the rate of fourteen miles an hour, and they ran the fourteen miles without reference to the indicator In some cases they had no indicator at all on the platform. The Commissioners had it in the body of the car 116. You say that this question has been under the consideration of the Board of Trade and tramway-owners in England, and the result is that speed-indicators are not used in England on tramways? —They are not. 117 With regard to paragraph (c) of subclause (1) of clause 5, what do you say?— There is not much objection excepting to the words "convenience of passengers," which, of course, goes again into the demands of the traffic. 118. That is to say, so far as concerns the safety of the public, you think it is quite a reasonable regulation ?—Yes. 119 But you object to any regulation being made involving the question of mere convenience? —That is so. 120. Because that is a matter in which you are already looked after by the Corporation? Yes. 121 What have you to say as to subclause (2) of clause s?—That, in the case of the Auckland Tramway Company would be giving the Governor power by regulation to upset our Orders in Council. 122. Now, a large portion of your capital, or the capital of the company, is held by people in England, is it not?—lt is generally held in England. 123. How do you think they would view a provision of this kind, enabling the Minister by regulation to revoke an authorizing order upon the faith of which they have spent three-quarters of a million of money ?—I am afraid it would upset their confidence in the company and in the Dominion, and in doing so it would place us in a difficulty if we wanted further capital for any extensions which under this very clause we might be called upon to make. 124. What do you say about subclause (3) of clause 5? I think you require to look into section 32 of the Second 'Schedule of the Tramways Act ?—lt simply repeals the power of local bodies in making by-laws with regard to the number of passengers and speeds. 125 That is an objection, apart from what you have already said, that comes more within the province of the local authorities I—Exceptingl—Excepting that there is one point about it It leaves the local authority with the power to make by-laws regulating the conduct of the employees, which would rather clash with the Appeal Board—l mean paragraph (g). Subclause (3) of clause 5 leaves provision for the local authorities making by-laws to regulate the conduct of employees. 126. You refer then to paragraph c) of clause 32 of the Second Schedule of the Tramways Act, 1908, which gives local authorities power to make by-laws for regulating the conduct of any person employed on or upon the tramway You say that clashes with the Appeal Board? —Yes. 127 Come now to the provisions of clause 6 of the Bill, which provides for the setting-up of an Appeal Board : Will you tell the Committee whether any of your company's men who may be dismissed have any right to appeal, and, if so, to whom? —They have a right of appeal to the general manager, of course, and then if they are not satisfied the whole question is gone through again by the local directors. There are two local directors, and the whole matter dealing with the question is gone through with them. 128. And if you differ from their view you are bound by their opinion?—l should be quite satisfied to be bound by them. 129 How do you consider the provisions of clause 6 of the Bill would affect your company and its interests, if at all?—It would undoubtedly take the vital power out of the hands of the company as to whom they should employ 130. Supposing, for instance, you thought that a motorman who had been placed upon a car did not possess the qualifications necessary for a motorman, or had partially lost the qualifications he had possessed, and you dismissed him; then he appealed to the Appeal Board, and that Board overruled you : can you see how } T ou could take responsibility for any accident you might have while you had him there? —It certainly would not be equitable were we called upon to do so. 131 Do you see that such a thing might happen?— Certainly 132. What other observations have you to make with regard to clause 6?—lt appears to me to be a clause that clashes with the arbitration law, in that any dismissal or any unjust action we might take against an employee may at present be brought before the Arbitration Court. There is again the uncertainty as to who would form the Board of Appeal. It is, of course, an extremely important matter, and there is the question of who is to pay for the time occupied and the services of the Board, which is not clear Further, as to the powers of the Board, in subclause (2) it goes beyond the question of dismissal, through the whole range of disratings, fines, punishments, or reductions in pay Fines are not permissible, and reductions in pay are, of course, covered by the awards of the Arbitration Court. 133 What do you mean by "fines"? —They are not legal. Then, of course, the final question of appeals on" the ground of promotions being upheld is extremely wide, and takes away from the responsible management of the tramway the most vital right of selecting the most suitable man to perform the various services that are required.