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134. Do you think a clause of this kind would be likely to make for discipline?—l am afraid not. lam afraid that it would destroy discipline. 135. You object apparently on principle to the setting-up of an Appeal Board at all?— Certainly 136. Do you see any more reasons for an Appeal Board in the case of a tramway employee than in the case of an employee of a merchant?—No, and it seems to me that if an Appeal Board in the case of, say, the Wellington Corporation Tramway employees is set up, it is only a step to claim that all the Corporations' employees shall immediately have the same right of appeal. 137 Or why the employees of a private individual?—l see no reason why they should not follow it up with the whole range of industries. 138. So far as the question of principle is concerned, if the management had the power of veto, as the Minister has in the case of an appeal in the Railway service, would you consider the matter so serious ?—No. 139 Apart from your objection to the principle, supposing an Appeal Board were to be set up at all, what would you think of the Arbitration Court as the Board of Appeal ?—lt seems to me that the Arbitration Court exists at present as an Appeal Board. 140. Not for the purpose set out in this clause. Supposing there is to be an Appeal Board for the purposes set out in clause 6, what do you think of the Arbitration Court? —The Arbitration Court would be all right, but the range of appeals appears to me to go too far. 141 Apart from that? —I do not think any objection would be raised to the Arbitration Court. 142 There you have a Judge of the Supreme Court as President —you know that, of course? —Yes. 143. Is there anything more that you want to say about clause 6?— l think not. 144. As to clause 7, I presume you have no objection to make to that? —That is practically carried out at the present day 145. Under clause 8 you will observe the powers, functions, and duties of the Engineer-in-Chief under the authorizing orders are to be handed over to the Governor? —Yes. 146. What do you say about that? —That if the recommendations of the Commission as to the appointment of a'a expert tramway engineer were carried out, I think that would probably be an improvement. Whilst 1 have the very highest regard and respect for Mr Holmes, the Engineer-in-Chief, I think if there had been a tramway officer such as was suggested by the recent Royal Commission we should have had the necessary permission before now to have the air brakes in Auckland. I think the Minister would have been in a position to have sent us permission before now 117 Is it right to say there is in the service of the Public Works Department at the present time a man expert in tramway matters?— There is not, to my knowledge. Those gentlemen I have come in contact with I do not think have had, at any rate, extensive tramway experience. 148. You then, apparently, do not agree with the views expressed by some witnesses as to the appointment of a special tramway engineer as recommended by the recent Commission? —I do not know what their views are. 149 They rather opposed it? —I do not consider it would be a bad tiling 150 Supposing no specially qualified tramway engineer is appointed, does it matter very much to your company whether it is the Governor or the Engineer-in-Chief who performs the powers, functions, and duties at present under the authorizing orders? —I think not. 151 Come now to clause 9, which makes provision for car report-books, and tell the Committee, first of all, what system your company adopts at the present time in regard to its report ? The system adopted and in use in Auckland for some time past has been that of a report form accompanying each car for each day If the car goes out into service the form goes with it, in charge of the man who is driving it. When he takes the car back into the depot he fills in any defects on the form, and hands it in to the superintendent's office. In case he hands the car over to a relief motorman on the road, he first fills in on the form any defects he has noticed on the car, and then hands the form to the relief motorman, who in turn adds anything he has to report about the car, and finally hands the form in to the car superintendent. These forms are collected and bound up in the form, of a book. 152 A separate book for each car?— One book for each car, and the books are kept in a case in the superintendent's office. There is a sheet for each car each day, showing whether it has been in service, undergoing repairs, or has been lying in the shed. 153 So that you have a daily report for each car, and not merely a report for defects or accidents? —A daily report for each car whether it is working or not. If the car has been idle in the shed the report simply states "In shed," the shed foreman or repair foreman, as the case may be, being responsible for filling up the forms for every car he has. 154. Do you allow a man, before he makes his report for any particular day, to see the reports regarding the car for preceding days? —To my knowledge the question has not arisen in that form. The men are allowed to see the books at any time they want to do so. We should not, however, allow a man to see the book just for the purpose of making up a report. What we want is a record of what is wrong with a car 155. An independent record?—An independent record We look to the assistance of the motormen in keeping the cars in working order, and we are now getting it by means of this system. 156 What do you think of the suggestion that for your present system there should be substituted a car report-book, as provided for in clause 9?— Clause 9 appears to provide for a car report-book that I took to be one car report-book for each shed. I have since been given to understand that it refers to one report-book for each car, which of course makes the thing somewhat different. The difficulty of one report-book for each car is that there is more than one car depot, and the book would have to be moved about from depot to depot, and in the course of time—particularly in wet weather —the book would be destroyed.