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one iota, because the shortages in giving cents and dollars increased, and were taken off the men, and a refund refused. 1 point this out in showing the action of the men in going to the Government and asking the Public Works Department to push this matter along. During my term as secretary men have been injured with the brakes. 1 should like to explain that the brake is fixed on or worked with a handle. There is a pressure sometimes of anything up to 250 Ib. required coming down College Hill. At the bottom of the brake-lever on the floor of the car there is a dog, and instead of that dog being sharp so that the point can go into the corresponding , cogs, it wears off, and one man, motorman Ward, was hit in the stomach as the wheel or handle flew round on College Hill. He was laid out, and the car took charge, and had it not been for the then traffic inspector, Mr. Lysaght, who rushed through from the inside of the car, there would have been a serious accident. This fact was brought out before the Royal Commission which inquired into the brakes. Another man, motorman Miller, had a severe strain and left work. James Belmont, within the last month or two, had a severe strain, and was off for ten days. 1 would point out that the action of the brake is gradual, but the release is sudden. In order to release, a sudden jerk has to be given to the brake-handle, and then the hand-brake dog releases the cogs at the bottom. Belmont was off ten days. Motorman Fletcher was laid up for three months with rupture, and there is one man in the hospital at present, whom I visited last Sunday, suffering from rupture, his name being G. F. Christmas. He has undergone one operation, and this week he had to have one of his testicles removed because of a lump on it the size of the top of an ordinary cardboard matchbox. Motorman Jensen was brought to the Brakes Commission in a cab to give his evidence. lie was just out of the hospital, and we had a certificate from his doctor to the effect that it was undoubtedly caused by a strain through working the brakes on the cars. Motorman Veart was reduced from motorman to conductor because of a slight bump that he had in turning a corner. That came out at the inquiry, and we found that the man himself had deposed that there was a defect in the car. A trial-was given of that car, not that day, but after it had gone to the depot, and therefore it was not a fair trial, because we could not say whether it had been interfered with in the meantime. A motorman named Lowe was prosecuted for furious driving down Pitt Street, the hill which is required to have the track brake down before the car starts to descend. He ran into a cart, and the police prosecuted Lowe for furious driving. The witnesses, who were on the front of the car, testified that Lowe was seen working with both hands on his brakes,and doing his utmost, but failed to make any appreciable difference in the speed of the car. The case was dismissed. In the Court I produced extracts from the motormen's report-book in the barn or depot to the effect that the car had been reported defective. 1 think that assisted the Magistrate in forming the opinion that the motorman had done all in his power, and he dismissed the case. After that case no book was kept in the depot, but isolated sheets were put in each day, so that when a man took a car out, unless a motorman who had handled that car on the day previous reported to him privately, he had no opportunity of gaining a knowledge as to the character of the equipment. The isolated sheets have been used since. G. Eon. Mr. li. McKenzie.] For how long?— They have been used, I should say, for twelve months. I should like to say that what concerns the Auckland men most is that those brakes should be installed. The union was distinctly in favour of a Bill introduced by the Hon. Mr. MeGowau in 1 i>o7 ; and, while this Bill of yours, sir, does not provide for many things that Mr. McGowan's Bill provided for, still the oik thing that weighs with the Auckland men is the fact that relief shall be granted to them and power brakes installed. We know unofficially from the motorman who drove the car with the air brake on in June last that the tests were very satisfactory from a motorman's standpoint, that without any auxiliary brake or any track brake the cars were brought up on College Hill in a very short distance, and what we are anxious for is that brakes of a like character shall be fitted to the Auckland cars. If the magnetic brake is installed it means a complete rearrangement of the cars and the putting-off of the installation of the cars, but the air brake can be installed without any rearrangement of the present under-gear. With regard to the power of licensing carriages, that is a very important matter with our Auckland men. We feel that the licensing, or, rather, the issuing of'licenses to men to drive on the cars, should not be in the hands of the employer who owns the cars. 7. You mean there should be some independent authority ?—Yes, that is the principle we are going on. At present a man is put on as a learner in his own time, and when he has learned his duties it is certified to by, 1 suppose, their officer, who certifies that he lias a good knowledge of the running of the car. Then he learns the routes, the stops on the different lines, and eventually, after passing an examination by the company's officer, he goes to the City Council with practically a certificate from the company that he is a fit and proper person to drive. I submit it should not be in the hands of the company or the Tramway Board to license its own motormen : it should be in the hands of the Department, in the same manner as is the issuing of certificates to engine, drivers under the Inspection of Machinery Act. _ _ 8 Mr. Myers.'] The question of licensing motormen is not dealt with in this Bill at all/ — Well, take the licensing of carriages, our trouble in Auckland for some time past has been the strap-hangers. In Wellington you carry them on the smallest bolt you have in the car, but in Auckland the Council licenses cars to seat so many persons, and any persons who have not a place to sit down on in the car are ordered off. The City Council are direct participators in the revenue of the company and they have brought in an amending by-law providing that small cars can take eight or ten passengers standing up, and that the larger cars can take fourteen; and we submit th *< i 1 j s no t in (he interests of the safety of the public that that should be allowed in cars that ,re not supplied as in the case of the Wellington cars, with side entrances, and where the only view the conductor lias is through the central aisle. I submit the licensing should be in the hands of -i disinterested party; but rather than lose the installation of the air brakes, 1 am instructed 1,, say that if it were a Bill of only <>ne clause the Auckland men would welcome it as a great relief