I.—B.

A. EOSSEH.]

31

to them. They want the brakes, although, of course, they have their own opinion on other matters. One man said to me before I left for Wellington, " The first thing you have to go down for is brakes, the second is brakes, and the third-well, the third is brakes too." I said there was some feeling, and I heard the men talking yesterday in the depot to the effect that if they got no relief they were prepared to take other steps; but 1 discountenanced such a thing. We get the name of being rather a turbulent crowd in Auckland, and that we have a strike every two years, but I may say that with the exception of this brake business matters have gone on comparatively smoothly since the last strike. We ask that all constitutional means be taken to give relief to the men in their work. The provision of glass fronts was a recommendation from the Commission, but I do not think there are half of the cars equipped with glass fronts, although in that statement I am subject to correction by the manager. In the summer-time it is not so imperative, but even our northern winters are too strenuous for a man to be driving at the pace at which they go without some protection. The Royal Commission finding was that the speed varied, and that it was over fifteen miles an hour, including stops on certain lines. We think the speed should be regulated too. Ido not know, Mr. Chairman, that I have any further statement to make. 9. Hon. Mr. B. McKenzie.] There are a number of accidents, fatal as well as serious, in connection with the Auckland tramways : do you as secretary of the union attend any of the inquests? —Yes. 10. Do you attend all of them?—l do not attend all, but a good many of them. 11. Has there ever lx>en any evidence given of runaway trams on the Auckland system — runaways through inefficient brakes?— No. 12. Are you sure?—W T ell, there was one in which a man named Paul was killed, and a conductor named Holden was subpoenaed by the Coroner to attend and give evidence, and he gave it as his opinion as a conductor that he had worked five years for the company, and that the brakes generally were defective. He was discharged the next day for giving evidence —they had no further use for him. A man named Wilson went over an old man in Karangahape Road on practically a level spot one Saturday night. It was a greasy rail but on a level line, and the motorman Wilson could not draw up in time ; and he was committed for manslaughter. lam not quite sure, but I think the grand jury threw out the bill, but the Coroner's jury brought in what was equal to a charge of manslaughter, and I think he was prosecuted for it. Motorman Straker killed a man named Graydon on College Hill, which is a steep rise of 1 in 13, and the Coroner's jury brought in a verdict of "Manslaughter" against him, but it did not go to the Court. I think the grand jury threw out the bill. The company found work for him in the barn till the case was finished. But when we have a fatal accident the result is that a compulsory stop is brought in. Above where Graydon was killed all cars must come to a stop at that point, but the time-table is not lengthened to allow for that, and the result is that the time-table allows the same time for the trip, and they have to go faster between the stops to make up for the compulsory stop. There was a compulsory stop on the Eden Terrace line just about where the runaway took place at Kingsland, and at Porter's Avenue there is another compulsory stop; but no more time is given for the complete journey. We have asked the company to agree to an extension of time, but we can get no satisfaction. Where it might take only half a minute to come to a dead stop there may be other delays, and there should lie more time allowed for the complete journey. 13. What distance does one of the Auckland cars travel after the brake is applied on a greasy rail?— Down College Hill I think it went ten pole-lengths. I was on the car that morning, but I insured my life before we started. 14. There have been, almost as many fatal accidents on the Auckland system as there have been in Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin put together. Do you think that many of those fatal accidents are due to inefficient brakes?—lt is because we cannot make the quick stops that they can here. I have noticed them here make remarkably quick stops with the magnetic brake. Some of the men in Auckland put on the brakes 200 yards before they require to come to a stop, and they have to keep the brake well in hand so as to put in on just when they want to get the car to stop. 15. When the man Graydon was killed, if the motorman had had sufficient brake-control could he have stopped the car?— Yes, with power brakes he could have brought it up. 10. Have you ever heard what pressure the men have to apply to the brakes on the worst grades?—l have only the sworn evidence of the men themselves. 17. What pressure do they say they apply?— From 2001b. to 250 Ib. or 300 Ib. on College Hill, and they have to get the two hands on the brake, with the foot on the dog, to do it. 18. You have a sick and accident fund in connection with the tramways?— That is in connection with the general employees. We have not got preference for employees—that is a distinct affair. 19. How are the amounts drawn then by the employees from that fund as compared with other parts of New Zealand? —I have nothing to do with the management of it—it is out of my hands. 20. How are the air brakes acting that were applied to the two cars?— There are two motormen who worked over the relief—sixteen hours—and I asked motorman Rogers if he found any difference, and he said that at 3 o'clock he had to consiifor whether he was going off shift or not, which he never had to do with the old "coffee-mills." He said they are working well and very quick stops can be made—quite as quick as with the brakes you have here. 21. Quicker and better than the hand-brakes? —Yes, much quicker. 22. Can you give any idea how far a tram would travel after the brake is applied as compared with the hand-brake? —No, I could not.