S.. WILLIAMS.]

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71. There is not sufficient rain? —No. 1 knew a man who started at Waipukurau; he was going to have a grand dairy farm. He ran it for a couple of months, and then it evaporated. The climate is too dry. There is one man near us on some of the best land in Hawke's Bay for dairyfarming, and he told me he was getting tired of it. He advertised an auction in selling off his dairy farm, and he provided vehicles to bring the people to his auction, and not a person turned up. 72. Is this a good district for fruit?- —It is a very fair place, but I do not think it is equal to the Hastings plains. 73. Do you think it is equal to Hattuna?—Very possibly, parts of it. I never heard Hatuma was a good example. 74. It is stated the settlers there are doing very well? —Well, they have been doing very well almost everywhere during the last few years. lam afraid some of them will tell a different story presently. 75. Assuming that the land was cut up, do you think it would have an injurious effect on the school?—I will leave that to the trustees, I think. 1 have always expressed myself as perfectly ready to retire from the occupation if the trustees wanted to make a different use of it. 76. With regard to the Girls' School at Hukarere, is the same curriculum taught there: I suppose the higher branches are absent?— Pretty nearly. 77. Do you think that school would thrive any better in the country than in the town?—l should not think so. I may say that I was responsible for placing the school there, and one of the principal reasons that weighed with me was the fact that I could get the services of ladies who had their heart and soul in the work. These services were given free of any charge, and that was a very important point. If you put the school away in the country, unless you have a large establishment, a sort of feeling of loneliness comes on which is fatal to Maori schools. Here they have the advantage of coming into the town; they come to the services in the town, they see their white sisters and brothers, and they have people coming to the school and encouraging them in their work. All this goes a very great way. 78. Mr. Lee.] You will see that No. 6 of the order of reference of our Commission asks us "Whether the school or schools are so conducted as to give to the children contemplated in the trust the greatest benefit, especially whether there is sufficient provision for manual and technical education of the children of both races, and especially of Maoris." Now, so far as that part of our Commission goes, are you of opinion that the school at present is fulfilling the conditions specified here with regard to manual and technical education? Is sufficient manual and technical education given in the schools? —I should say at the present time it is imperfect. We have been waiting and hoping for some satisfactory plan to be agreed upon. We thought that we had attained our object when the Department conceded our request, but the Department, whether through a mistake or not I do not know, to our utter surprise went back on it. 79. May I ask whether you or the trustees are willing to take the direction of the Department in the matter of the education given in the College ?—We have endeavoured from the first to try and meet their views, but I may say we remonstrated and asked that we should not be bound to give four hours per week to this instruction to every scholar. We asked for some discretion, and the proposal was, to begin with, that two hours and a half per week should be agreed upon. Of course, we are quite open to gradually increase that time if it should be found advisable. 80. You will excuse my saying so, but it might be said that no technical education is at present given in either the boys' or the girls' schools; that the education at present given is of a manual character as distinct from the technical? —Yes. 81. I understand you are quite willing to take the direction of the Education Department in regard to anything that may be more up to date in the way of technical instruction? —I am sorry anjdliing has happened to convey a different impression. It has been our object and wish from the first to work harmoniously with the Government Department, and re are prepared, as far as is necessary, even to sacrifice our own particular wishes if it is of advantage to do so. But, I may say, so far as my own feelings are concerned, I am exceedingly jealous for an institution which has cost me so much anxiety and trouble. I think we should begin with moderation at first. 82. How long has Latin been taught in the school?— Mr. Thornton can give you an answer about that. 83. Supposing, for the sake of argument, that the Education Department should think that instruction in agriculture would be more beneficial to the pupils than the present instruction in Latin, would you or the trustees be likely to fall in with, such a view?—l may say, generally, that my view of the question is simply this: you would want a different class of teachers, and it would interfere almost entirely with the present education of the institution to start farming-work there. And I must say at the same time that the Natives so far have objected to it. I know it is hardly necessary from my own experience. I see Maori youths ploughing and working their land as well as any Europeans alongside them, and they say, "We can teach them this ourselves. We send them to you not to be taught what they can learn at home, but to teach them what they cannot get at home." 84. The same thing was said to me many years ago by European parents in regard to sewing, but, at the same time, the parents did not teach the sewing. Of course, agricultural instruction would not. mean only manual work, but would include the elements of chemistry and botany, and a good deal of lecture-work and practical laboratory-work by the pupils ?—Teaching of that kind would be on the manual side, mainly. To put it generally, we should be very glad indeed to work harmoniously with the Department in carrying out any views of that kind. 85. Do you think it is desirable to continue teaching Latin just now? —It is not so extensive as all that. I think the amount of classical education is harmless.

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