G.—7

14

Mr. William Henry Skinner, Chief Draughtsman in the New Plymouth District Survey Office, and authorised surveyor, was then sworn. Mr. Skinner ; Mrs. Brown said that the land granted to her at Urenui within the Ngatimutunga boundaries was given her not as a Ngatimutunga, but in satisfaction of her claim for the Mataihuka in the Wellington district. The evidence of the West Coast Commission (see Appendices of 1882, G.-5, page 31) distinctly says " The Government settled the matter by providing in the Special Powers and Contracts Act of 1878 for the issue of a grant of 150 acres of land to Mrs. Nicol and to her daughters, Mrs. Brown and Mrs. Naera, to be chosen in the Wellington Provincial District." That was done in Schedule A, No. 7 (see Appendices A.-sb, page 16, of 1884) and 500 acres was given in the Urenui District. The Commissioner stated at the time of making this recommendation that he did so distinctly upon the condition that it should be in full satisfaction of all their claims. The 500 acres was received by them as members of the Ngatimutunga Hapu. Mr. Kensington : I understand there were two separate grants, that is to say, one in the Wairoa District, being part section 98, which was in satisfaction of Mrs. Brown's own claim, and the other at Urenui, of which she received 250 acres in satisfaction of her claim as a Ngatimutunga. Mrs. Brown : I have no question to ask Mr. Skinner at all, but with regard to the statement that 500 acres was given to the Mataihuka, I should like to say that at the sitting of the West Coast Commission at Waitara, on Friday, the sth of March, 1880 (see Appendices of that year, G-2, page 25, paragraph 322), that I, in giving evidence, stated "When I returned to live here after leaving New South Wales, where I had been living with my husband, I found that all the land which I claimed in right of my mother, Terau-o-te-Rangi, had been confiscated. It is about three years since I came back here. I came from Sydney to petition the Government that some land might be given to me as my mother's representative. The land was situated at Mataihuka, in the District of Wellington. I applied for that piece of land which belonged to my mother, but when I came I found it included in a Government purchase, and I petitioned the Government to give me land elsewhere for it." [Witness handed in a report in which the Committee recommended her case to the Government for favourable consideration.] " Afterwards I saw Mr. Sheehan. It was upon that petition I got 500 acres promised to me. I wish to impress upon the Commissioner that the 500 acres has nothing to do with the claims of my mother. The 500 acres was for a piece of land taken away by the Government, including the purchase in the Wellington District." I want to clear away any impression on the part of tbe Commission that I am not within my rights. Mr. Kensington : The impression still remains in my mind that Mrs. Brown received 500 acres as a Ngatimutunga, and therefore as a Ngatimutunga she does not come in as an absentee for this 3,000 acres. The Commissioner : I suppose this is so. Mrs. Brown : I do not know what was in the mind of Commissioner Fox, because we were not on the best of terms owing to my tongue being very long. When Sir William Fox set apart a piece of land application was made by myself and sister that it should be placed under a trust and The Commissioner : We need not go into this. Mrs. Hopere : After the explanation given by Mr. Kensington, the representative of the Government, lam now clear as what can be done. As I understand it now, the position is this : that the persons who have not participated in any grants of land, and who are absentees, are entitled to sixteen acres each—that is to say, they must not have received any land grants from the Government. Tbe Government now desire to have inquiry made as to who are the persons entitled. I therefore think it right that Mrs. Brown should be examined as to her list of people, so as to ascertain how many of them are absentees, and also whether they have had land or not. lam informed that there are a number of Ngatimutunga who appear in that list who have already received land here. I would like Mrs. Brown's case to be gone on with, so that it can be ascertained whether these people were absentees, where they were living, and all about them. Mr. Kensington : I think, Mr. Mackay, that when all the lists are handed in a copy should be made, and Mr. Fisher, the Reserves Agent, should go through them, and identify them, and state whether any of them have received any land. The Commissioner: I think the Commission should adjourn till 2 o'clock, and in the meantime a list can be made and handed to Mr. Fisher. Mr. Fisher then explained the difficulty that occurs through Maoris frequently changing their names, and stated that it would take some time to go through the lists. The Commissioner therefore decided that the Commission should adjourn until 2 o'clock. The Commission resumed at 2 o'clock. Mr. Kensington: In speaking of the claims this morning, as to the successor of Henrietta Uruhenu it was stated that she had received no land, whereas in the statement of the compensation award she is shown as receiving 16 acres of land at Waitotara (G.-2, page 23, of 1880). So she did obtain an award. Mr. Fisher: Her successors still hold this land. Mr. Kensington : I think it would save a great deal of time if the Court were to adjourn for a little time to allow Mrs. Brown and other claimants just to go through the lists of claimants with Mr. Fisher and find out if they have received any grants of land. Te Tipi here handed in a supplementary list No. 8a (see Appendix C, No. 1) and explained that in the list there were a number of names of persons who had no land in New Zealand. The Commissioner : It will be far better for you to go through the lists. Now, for instance, I see there the name of Maria. Now, who is this Maria? She must have a Maori name, and it should appear on the lists. This sort of thing is not allowed in the Native Land Court, but it is necessary there that both the surname and Christian names should be given.