a.—7

15

Mrs. Brown : I should like to give a reply to Mrs. Albury's (Mrs. Hopere) request which she made before the adjournment that I was to prove that my people had any should be examined to ascertain how many of the claimants are absentees Now I consider that, as I am the petitioner in this case, Mrs. Albury should prove her points before I show my hand The Commissioner : It is immaterial who gives her evidence first, as you are all asslumed tbe claimants. As your list is first, Mrs. Brown, we will take it first. You will all of you have to prove who your people are, and you will all be strictly examined. P Mrs. Brown: Considering that Mrs. Albury has a new bet she should give first The Commissioner : All you have to do is to prove all you can and to let Mrs. Albury do the Sam After consulting with the Under-Secretary of Lands the Commissioner decided to adjourn until the mormngso g as to allow the names appearing on the lists to be compared with Mr. Fisher s b °° k ' Saturday, 13th May, 1905. It C o^t™r d HltlTafter going through tbe lists Mr. Fisher points out that Hen Mfil2ctr different from the other three women whom M, Bayley claims to represent. Inasmuch as these three women had small allocations made to them in a block of 788 acres at Urenui, as members of the Ngatimutunga Hapu, and Henrietta Uruhenu was not included in that block. I find that she had subsequently awarded to her by Judge Smith 3iacrVs atWa'totara. She was included with a large number of others, but this was not an awara to he members of the Ngatimutunga Hapu and before final decisioni is made upon this claim I shall ask to have a search of the records made to show in what right this land at WaitoUra was granted because I am under the impression that it was made to her certainly not as a membe* o?th Ngatimutunga Hapu, but as representing her father's tribe It seems extraordinary to me that she alone of the Ngatimutunga should have been awarded land in a block at Waitotara n whiKhe had no interest whatever. Her mother was not included in this grant and she is the only Ngatimutunga. I believe it will be found that she got that land through her father. The Commissioner : Did her father belong to the Ngatimutunga Tribe > Mr Hutchen : No ; her mother, Haurangi. The Commissioner: Well, you see Waitotara was always m the confiscated district, and the Court hadflowerto award, Government did award, land to Natives m other places than that to which they belonged. They often asked for this to be done themselves. Mr Hutchen. That is why, sir, I ask you to have the records searched to ascertain in what right Tt -Thave no wish whatever to deprive your client of the land if she is entitled to it I wish to give everybody fair play. I was Crown Agent or the whole of the Proceedings n the Wa.kato, and therefore I am familiar with such matters. Jour request seems Treasonable, however, and I will ask Mr. Fisher to look up the records and will do so myS tr a^^l -°I t k hmk it'willTe 1 better that Mr. Fisher should give evidence as to the names included m he list of grants already issued, and also I would like to point out that in many cases mmors have claimed for an award of land, and these minors can only participate by virtue of their Succession They would therefore have to prove that the original people for whom they are Clai Th g c Thomas William Fisher, Reserves Agent, was then sworn. The Commissioner : After the adjournment of the Court yesterday evening, did you go through the list of the Natives ? Mr. Fisher: Yes. to the typewritten list of claimants (Bee Thnntomatio°n by Mr. Fisher was agreed to by the Natives who represented the Claim S B toZi^^T:^^ the way the Natives have admitted that the information fs cTree and the short time which Mr. Fisher has had in which to th~ eTist he is to be congratulated upon the information he has been able to obtain, and I have to thank you Mr. Fisher for the same. I can do nothing about these children ;bu as there are a large number of them, I am inclined to make a recommendation to the Government in order that such a large number shall not be left landless. Te Tipi: I think that all those appearing on my list who are over twenty-one years of age Sh ° U K e Co— i afU A S man being alive may have ever so many children and the rights are then vStedrtheparentsTif those parents have had awards, the children cannot put in a claim; Win view of the circumstances of the case, and as there are such a large number of children I ".Ms family Which it seems to me should be settled on the land, I shall make a recommendation to to them, because I think it would be manifestly unfair to leave them withouTany land fwe are able to give them some. The great difficulty is that the land has been Sid, andTis questionable whether we shall be able to meet the wants of all those who are able to then ad j our ned until 9 o'clock on Monday morning.