JAMES LOUDON.]

I.—4a.

29

miner is a fairly healthy man. Ido not think his employment is against either his health or his vigour. 255. Have you found him, generally speaking, inferior to other men —not having half the go and strength, or anything of that?—That is not the case. I may mention that in our little mine there are only sixteen actual coal-getters, and two or three of these are over sixty —two of them sixty-five, I think, and another over sixty. These three are doing the same work and gaining the same wages as the young miners; so that does not indicate that they are going down very rapidly. My own observation is that they last better than those men who are working out in the open, because the miners do not get knocked out with rheumatism. They are not subjected to atmospheric changes. 256. Mr. R. McKenzie.] How many men are there employed in your mine? —Only twenty. 257. This proposed change would increase your cost by one-fifteenth?—That is all. 258. In reply to Mr. Allen you said that one-sixth of your expenses were the wages of the men employed on the surface by the day ?—No. I said that in the coal-hewing on an average about one-sixth of the work would be done on shift-wages; in addition to that there are the oncost men. 259. That is what I wanted to get at: if this Bill became law it would increase your cost by one-fifteenth of one-sixth?—No. 260. How do you make that out ?—There would be five-sixths of the coal-hewing done on piece rates and the other one-sixth on shift-wages. It would affect that one-sixth to the extent of one-fifteenth; and there are four what we call on-cost men also—an engine-man, a tip-man, a driver, and the manager. 261. Do you pay them by the week?—By the fortnight; so-much a day. 262. Their wages are weekly ?—No. 263. Do you employ your manager by the day ?—No ; by. the week. 264. Do you employ your engine-driver by the day, then ?—The engine-man happens to be my partner; but, of course, he has to get his wage. 265. Is he employed by the day ? —He is employed by the week. 266. What I want to get is whether you would have to pay these men the same if they worked seven hours a day or eight ?—The engine-driver would be paid by the week, and also the manager. 267. What about the brace-man ?—The brace-man and the driver are paid by the day. For instance, we are sometimes able to knock the men off on Saturday afternoon —in fact, they want it. They should get Saturday afternoon off as often as possible, and so we give it them as frequently as we can. The driver and the brace-man—-the same would hold good in any other colliery where the on-cost would be greater than mine—would be paid for the half-day only, but the engine-driver is always paid full time. 268. Do you think you could employ another man in your mine with advantage at getting coal with the same plant ? —I could. 269. So that really your output would not be reduced ? —No, not as far as getting ■ 270. By employing another man in addition to the sixteen your output would he kept up to what it is now, if you worked the lesser time, without any accession to the plant ?—Yes, as far as the one-fifteenth is concerned. The addition of one man would not alter the output at all, as far as I am concerned, if the shorter time were worked. 271. Now, as to the effect of coal-mining on health, you say you have three men over sixty ? —Yes, I think there are three ; but 1 am absolutely certain of two.' 272. What are they doing?—Hewing coal. 273. How long have they been working with you ? —One of them betwixt the time that I was in the Walton Park Company's employ and the time he has been working for me—l should say over thirty years. 274. Do you think that those three men would have been in as good or better health than they are in now if they had been working on the "surface ? —I could not say, but Ido not think they would have been any better. 275. Do you know whether their lives are insured ?—No, I do not think so. 276. If they went to an insurance company to get their lives insured, do you know whether they would have to pay an extra premium on account of their working in a coal-mine ? —I was with Mr. Cheeseman yesterday ; we called at two offices, and they said that no difference would be made by them between a coal-miner and any other man. 277. Your mine is a free-level ? —Yes. 278. Is there any water in the mines about Green Island ?—Yes. There is water at Freeman's. They work their men entirely on shift-wages there. 279. You said there was no rheumatism amongst the men working in your mine ?—lt is not common. 280. Does that apply generally to coal-miners about Green Island ?-—I do not think they are as much afflicted with rheumatism as other workmen are—l mean labourers on the surface, farm-ing-men, or others like that. 281. Have they got to use pumping machinery in any of those mines ?—At Freeman's they have, and at Walton Park the whole concern broke down because there was too much water. 282. Do you think that the air in those mines is as dry as it is outside on the surface in the sun? —As far as the air in a mine where there is water is concerned, I do not think the water affects it much at all. 283. How long have you had your certificate?—Since the Act was in force—over twenty years ago, when mine-managers were compelled to have certificates. 284. Did I understand you to say that you never did any work in a coal-mine ?—Oh, yes, I have done work, but not as a coal-hewer.