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Sundays, to effect that repair. The same applies to gas companies and the Electrical Syndicate. It simply means the public must be inconvenienced, or that we must commit a breach of the Act. 81. Mr. Tanner.] You mean with regard to overtime?— And holidays. 82. Mr. Hutcheson.} Broadly, you hold the view that the work of the municipality is such that it ought not to be interfered with by cast-iron restrictions that might render it necessary for you to either cause serious loss or else to break the law ?—I think so. There is no question about it. It has been shown that the Council do not unreasonably work their men. 83. You stated you considered the force of public opinion was sufficient to hold in check any abuses in the way of overworking the employes of the Corporation. Had you in your mind the idea that the franchise gives every citizen a voice in its affairs ?—I had not that in my mind. I have had my own experience of the way in which the Council is approached, and myself personally, from day to day with regard to the interests of the workmen. 84. The real check is undoubtedly the question of the franchise, which gives every citizen, whether a wealthy man or a poor one, the same voice in its affairs?— Undoubtedly. 85. Mr. Arnold.] When your men work overtime—the tramway employes—do they receive any extra pay ? —The arrangement is that they get time and a half for all extra time—that is, for work beyond the stipulated hours per week. . 86. They work forty-eight hours per week, do they not ?—Speaking from memory, they work fifty-two hours. 87. That is 104 for the fortnight, against the overtime ?—That is so. 88. And what holidays do you give them per year ?— Christmas Day and Good Friday as clear holidays, and in addition to that they have seven working-days in the year, for all of which days they are paid full time. 89. You employ a number of boys, do you not?— No. 90. Do you employ some ? —ln my special department we do not employ any. 91. As far as you know, there is no objection to this Act as far as it applies to boy-labour?— I quite approve of the Act where it deals with boys and girls up to a certain age; but to provide that young ladies and young gentlemen of seventeen and eighteen years of age are to be prevented from being wetted and steamed, I think, is making molly-coddles of them. 92. Mr. Arnold (to Mr. Ferguson).] With regard to the carpenters and others that you employ, Mr. Ferguson, what arrangements have you decided on for these; and, in regard to overtime and wages, have you any arrangement at all ?—Oh, yes; they work forty-four hours a week, and after that they get overtime paid. 93. At what rate ? —At various rates, according to the position and rank the man has. 94. Does the overtime commence after the forty-four hours ?—Yes. Of course, in connection with this, if we came under the Factories Act, it would be very awkward for us* in the case of a breakdown. Very often these repairs have to be carried out on statutory holidays, as that is the only way of managing repairs. No doubt it would be a serious inconvenience to us if we had to send away for an Inspector instead of doing the work. We are not a factory, and no local body can be considered a factory. If we are to be swept in under the Bill, I think the term Factory Act should be abolished, and some other phrase adopted. 95. Are there boys doing much work about the wharf ?—There are only boys who work about the office. We have no boy-labour at all. We have two young ladies who attend to the telephone. Under this Act no girl can commence work before eight o'clock in the morning. We have to have one girl on duty at 7.30 a.m. and she works until 12.15 ; the other girl comes on then, and works until 6 o'clock. If we come under this Factory Act, we should have to amend their hours. I take it that if this Bill is passed, the provisions of it are to be complied with, or cisc ignored. I think there should be no legislation which should be ignored, and I take it that this Act would be ignored. The provisions of the existing Factories Act were ignored. It is not desirable that any local body should be put in the position of determining whether they will break the law or not. 96. I suppose, if you employed young people outside your offices, you could be brought under the Conciliation and Arbitration Act ?— The wharf labourers have us cited, and we are going to the Arbitration Court with the case. 97. With regard to the permanent employe's of the Board, there is no discontent amongst them, is there?— They petitioned the Board recently for certain things. The Board met them part of the way, and part of the way we did not. 98. You think, for your purpose, the Conciliation and Arbitration Act is sufficient ? —Ample sir. 99. Mr. Tanner (to Mr. Eounthwaite).] With regard to your view of public opinion, Mr. Eounthwaite, do you mean to say that public opinion in any district would be sufficient to protect workmen from improper treatment—in small districts for instance—or do you apply that to the larger cities, where public opinion is more readily expressed ?—I think ie ought to be, and generally is so, even in the smaller cities as well as in the larger towns. 100. Are you aware that in the Public Contracts Act there is a provision to the effect that every local body in the colony shall pay the current rate of wages in the particular trade in which the men are working. Are you aware that such an Act was passed?—l have heard of such an Act. 101. Are you aware that a local body, ignoring the Act, is paying its men ss. to-day, and none of them more than that ?—I am not. 102. How much does public opinion stand for in a case like that, when the thing is being made a matter of correspondence in the public newspapers ?—I am not aware of that case. 103. I am glad you have raised one point, and that is with regard to the Borough Councils and local authorities being made courts of appeal in regard to the reasonableness of the demand made