25

E.—-3b

548. Did you see them ?—Brother Loetus told me that the boys were out at recreation, and would not be back till six o'clock. 549. Did you notice whether their bodies were clean ?—They said they had not been washed for nearly a week. 550. Mr. Fell.] On what day did you pick up the boys ?—Sunday evening. 551. Did they say how long they had been out of the school?— Yes; since the Friday evening. 552. Where did they stay during the two nights ?—ln an old shed at Eichmond on the first night; with an old lady at Wakefield the second night. They had walked from Wakefield to Lower Moutere on the Sunday. 553. When did you go to the Orphanage ?—On the 24th May—Queen's Birthday. 554. Mr. Bush.] You did not go back the next day to see the boys ?—No. I went on the day named tojsee if I could get them to come back to the same places again. 555. Mr. Fell] Did you apply to Dean Mahoney ?—Yes. He said that they were under age, and that the Government would not allow them to go. We thought that they were two good boys. Jane Deummond, examined on oath. 556. Mr. Harley.] You are the wife of Daniel Drummond, and live at the Moutere ? -Yes. 557. You had a boy named James at your places ?—Yes; Albert James. He came from the Orphanage. 558. Who brought him to you ? —He came with Mrs. Elizabeth Drummond's son, and stayed with me until he was taken away by Constable Boyes. 559. What condition were his clothes in ?—Very dirty. 560. Did you wash anything for him ?—Yes; everything except his guernsey, which was too ragged to^wash. 561. How were his boots?— Not so bad. 562. And the other clothes?— His coat was all rags. 563. Where was the guernsey worn ?—On the top of his shirt. 564. Have you got his shirt ?—Yes; I produce it. [Shirt produced.] 565. Did you wash it ?—I got him to wash it through two washings, and I then washed it myself and boiled it. 566. What is it made of ? —Forfar towelling. 567. What is it like when new ?—Stiff and hard. 568. Had he any undershirt ?—No. 569. What did he do for a shirt ?—1 lent him one. His own was on the line when Constable Boyes came, but as it was wet he would not take it. 570. Did you consider the boy badly clad ?—Yes ; badly clad and dirty. 571. Did you see Maher?—Yes. 572. Did you see his clothes ?—Yes; I saw them on him. 573. What condition were they in ?—The coat was ragged, but the trousers were not so bad. The boots were trodden down at the heels, and he could not put his feet in them properly. 574. Mr. Wardell.] Did he tell you how long he had been out ?—Yes; since the Friday night. 575. Did you consider the clothing sufficiently warm for the season of the year ? I do not attach so much importance to the boy being merely ragged and dirty ?—lt was not warm enough 576. That is what you think?— Yes. Alexander Andeeson, examined on oath. 577. Mr. Harley.] You were for many years an inmate of St. Mary's Industrial School ? Yes. 578. You left there some years ago ?—Three or four years ago. 579. Since then you have been back in the institution to work ?—Yes. 580. How long ago is it since you went back?— Six or seven months. 581. Did you go back as an inmate ?—No. I went back in the employment of the management. 582. How long were you there then ?—About seven months. 583. Did you live on the premises ?—Yes. 584. Did you see the boys about?— Yes. 585. Did you see any undergoing punishment ?—Yes. 586. Did you see who was being punished ?—Yes ; Charlie Miller. 587. How was he being punished ?—He was locked in the cell upstairs under the tower. 588. Did you see him there ? —I did not see him, but I heard him being punished several times. I heard him scream from outside. 589. How many times ?—Three or four times. 590. Could you hear anything else ?—I could hear the stick hitting him. 591. How many blows do you think he received at a time?—A dozen or thirteen. 592. You could not tell what part of the body was getting it ?—Only from what I could hear outside. 593. Could you say how long he was in the cell?—I think he was there about five days. 594. Did you see him brought out into the grounds during these five days?— No. 595. Do you know whether he was let out during these five days?—l do not think so. I did not see him. 596. Have you been engaged upon the hill work? —Yes. 596 a. Was any hill work going on during the last time you were there ?—A little s They were only bringing down hop-poles. 4—E. 3b.