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32. I will leave that question then, because I cannot get a direct reply. No other question applies than the one I have already put?—l am not going outside of the present question that is before us, and I do not care if you spend three or four days in asking me that question, I will always give you the same reply. 33. lam going to ask you a new question now. You said just now that Maoris as a people were too ignorant and too incompetent to be able to administer their own lands. Did you not ?— Is that because I said that Maoris had no fire over which they could make money ? You have no right to twist that into that meaning. 34. You said just now that the land should be placed under the control of the Board ; that if the Maoris were given the sole control they would not know how to do anything through ignorance and incompetency, but all they knew how to do was to cook food for themselves. I want to know if you are serious in saying that ? —I have said the Maoris could not manage these matters. They have no money, in the first place, which would enable them to do so. 35. Very well, supposing they had the money, could they do it ?—Yes. 36. Then, the Maoris are not ignorant people, if that is the case. -That is satisfactory to me, then ?—lf they had the money they could do it. 37. Then the Maoris are an intelligent and responsible people ?—Oh, sometimes yes, and sometimes not. Sometimes they spend and fritter away money foolishly and ignorantly. 38. Now, supposing the Maoris wish to control, manage, and administer their lands, and prove their capacity to do it, and do not want the Government to interfere in any way except to advance them money, would you be willing to agree to that?— Quite willing, if the Government could see their way to advance the money to them. If you want that to be given to the Waikato district, I am quite willing to support you. lam talking now of what refers to the East Coast. I have absolutely no objection whatsoever to make, if you ask that all the members for the West Coast district should be Maoris—no objection whatsoever. 39. I think I had better stop asking any more questions. Witness : Now, there is a matter that I forgot to state yesterday, when I was asked by Mr. Carroll to state what were my desires with regard to the East Coast district. Now, I shall shorten what I shall have to say so as to put it in a clear and concise manner for the Committee generally, and Mr. Carroll, who asked me the question originally. lam here sitting in this House in this Parliament for the purpose of getting this Bill passed. I gave my reason yesterday. Now, as Mr. Carroll asked me to give reasons which would enlighten the Government and assist them in framing a new measure, I will proceed to do so now. The first matter which is ardently desired by the East Coast people is : put an absolute stop to the purchase of any Maori land that is now unencumbered. That is the first ground. The second ground is, constitute a Board. The Board having been constituted it can then be optional for the owners of the land whether they put their land under the operation of the Board or withhold it from its control—the Board to be given the power to set up Block Committees—all blocks owned by a number of persons to have their respective Committees appointed—a District Committee to be set up as a Court to deal with land rights and titles. I say that there should be five districts in the East Coast. These Committees to be at the direction of the Board, and to act upon its instructions if required by it to inquire into the title or position of any land. These Committees to inquire into and adjudicate upon all land questions, rights and titles. If one Committee finds ie is not competent for it to deal.with any question, then the Board shall have the authority to call another one—each Maori district to set up the people whom they decide upon as the most proper to hold the position of members of such Committees. The Board to decide upon the question. These appointments by the Board of District Committees to be sanctioned by the Minister. Those are the principal matters. Now, those are the principal proposals, and all the widening out and further application of these matters are to be drawn up and embodied by you in the Bill which is to be brought down. What I wish to see passed is the Board Bill, and here are my amendments to that Board Bill. You people say no, frame a new Bill; very well, then, I have given you the principal reasons that I wish to see embodied in that Bill. But I look upon this departure as nothing more or less than a desire to delay matters so that neither this Board Bill will pass this session nor any other measure which will prohibit the Government from continuing to purchase Native land. 40. Hon. Mr. Carroll.] Well, if they would only shorten the proceedings we might do something ? —What I say would take no time if people would only see their way to support me. I say take this Bill at 2.30 p.m., lay it before the House, pass it, and have done with it. You do not want that. You want to see the whole Island brought into my district—the East Maori Coast Electoral District. Why not draw up a separate measure to meet with Mr. Kaihau's views if he wants it, and let me have this to apply to the East Coast? This is the second year that the East Coast has been treated in this way. Why should Ibe humbugged and misled, and bamboozled in this way, when I know perfectly well what it means ? They say, Oh, well, we will pass a short clause to put a stop to Native-land purchase, and then at the same time leave a door open for the East Coast lands to be seized and taken away from us through the medium of survey liens, mortgages and other matters of that kind. The East Coast Maoris have thoroughly made up thsir minds that they understand the position, and they have no fear of the Board operating to their disadvantage—even if every member of that Board is to be European the East Coast people are willing to accept that. 1 am exceedingly angry and wroth, and annoyed with the Government for the way in which it has treated me and tried to drag me into the proceedings that the other districts wish to carry out. I have a name of my own. lam the East Coast. That is all I have to say, and do not anybody ask me any more questions. There is no object in asking me any further questions-. • The. Chairman.] Mr. Kaihau has put (in printed form) before the Committee this morning his views with regard to his district. Mr. Wi Pere has again put his views before the Committee this

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