Or.— 2

118

Tuesday, 17th March, 1896. Keebhi Tomu, examination continued. 1. Mr Fraser.] You remember in 1886 Kemp telling you in No. 3 that if you sold your 105 acres you were to have none in No. 11 ? —Yes. 2. That really meant that the guardians were to say who were to go into No. 11, and who were not ? —Yes. 3. You have sold your 105 acres in No. 3, have you not?— Yes. 4. Were you at the Court when Section 14 was cut off?— Yes. ' 5. That was cut off for Te Whatanui ?—Yes. 6. But they did not approve of it ? —No. 7. So you cut off No. 9 ?—Yes. 8. They were both put in Kemp's name until the descendants of Whatanui decided which they would take ? —Yes. 9. With regard to this £1,000 that Kemp sent down to you, was it before or after the partition between Kemp and Warena Hunia in No. 11 ?—lt was after. 10. Very shortly before the deed of release was proposed?—les. 11. Who called the meeting when the deed of release was brought before you?— Sir Walter Buller went up to Horowhenua and he wrote our names on the deed. 12. Was that the first you had heard of the deed of release?— Yes. 13. Who addressed that meeting?— When Sir Walter Buller came up he addressed us, and then read the deed. 14. What did he say in his address to you all ?—He said it was to leave the mana to Kemp— to confirm him in the trust for what he had done. 15. Was that all that was said ? —Yes. 16. You have signed your name? —Yes. 17. Were you reminded that Kemp had been very good to you and sent down £1,000 not long before that? —Yes. 18. If Kemp had been put alone in No. 11 could he have done absolutely what he liked with it, in your opinion, and so far as you know, in the opinion of the people ? —Yes ; he would have had a right to do that. 19. Do you consider now that Kemp is in that position with regard to No. 11 ?—Yes. 20. And you personally, speaking for your family, would be perfectly satisfied with whatever he did ? —Yes ; he was caretaker for the tribe. 21. Mr. Baldwin.] I asked you yesterday about the circumstances which led to the gift of land to Te Whatanui by Taueki. You remember the trouble with Watene ? Watene claimed a right to this land through the tuhi of Te Whatanui?—Yes. 22. And Watene was fighting so far as you know as for the people who were entitled to this land?— Yes. 23. Have you ever heard of a conversation that took place between Kemp and Pomare at Auckland prior to the Court of 1873 ?—Yes; he told us of a conversation he had had. 24. What did Kemp tell you?—Kemp said he told Pomare he would take the land into consideration. 25. Did Kemp also tell you that he told Pomare not to attend the 1873 Court—that he would look after them ?—Yes ; Kemp told us that. 26. Did Pomare attend the Court of 1873 ?—He did not come. 27. When this 1,200 acres was first spoken about, did Kemp tell you the persons he was going to give it to or did he tell you it was for the uri of Te Whatanui ?—He did not name the people he simply said it was for the descendants. 28. Was it left entirely to Kemp to select the persons he would give this land to?— Yes. 29. And would they be perfectly satisfied whoever Kemp gave it to?— Yes ; it was left entirely with him. 30. It was really a return by the Muaupoko of part of the land which had been taken away by the judgment of the Court ? —Yes ; the Muaupoko gave it back, as it had been the gift of Taueki to Whatanui. 31. Mr. McDonald.} Was it explained to you that you were releasing Kemp from all claim with respect to the rents from 1873 to 1886 by this deed ? —Yes. 32. Was it explained to you that you were releasing him from all claim for the rent from 1886 to the date of the release ?—Yes. 33. Was it also explained to you that you were releasing Kemp from all claim in respect of the £6,000 for which he had sold the township ?—Yes. 34. Was it explained to you also that you were releasing him from all further claim in respect of the quarter-acre sections that were to have been returned to you ?—I do not know anything about them. 35. You did not understand you were releasing him from all claim in respect to them, did you? —I do not know anything about them. 36. Were you at the meeting of 1886 ?—Yes. 37. Did you not hear it stated there that, out of this 4,000 acres to be sold to the Government, you were to get every tenth section?—We heard something about that. 38. Then, when you signed this release, were you relinquishing all further claim in respect to those sections ? —We were confirming what Kemp had done as a caretaker. 39. Was that all you were doing?— Yes. 40. When you signed the release, had you it in your mind that Kemp had the power to keep you out or put you into No. 11 ? —I would be in the block, because it was part of my right.