G.—2

41. You have said it was for Kemp to say who was to go in or not ?—I know that Kemp had to conduct this matter in respect to the land, and that he would divide it amongst us. 42. Therefore, you had it in your mind that Kemp had that power when you signed the release ?—Yes. 43. Hector McDonald has told the Commission that the Muaupoko are divisible into four hapus?—That is so. 44. Will you give the names of those four hapus ?—Aiteao, Ngatihini, Ngatipariri, and Ngaitamarangi; those are the four divisions. There are other hapus, but those are the principal ones. 45. The other hapus are subdivisions of those?— Yes. 46. Can you give the name of the present chief of Ngatiao?—Yes; I am the chief. 47. There are a great many of them ? —The older chiefs have died ; Te Eurupuni and others are dead. 48. Who is chief of Ngatipariri ?—Himiona Kowhai. 49. Who is chief of Ngatihini ?—Makere te Eou. 50. Who is chief of Ngaitetamarangi ?—lhaia Taueki. 51. You mentioned the name of Te Eurupuni: was he not very old when he died ? —Yes. 52. Who was the chief of Ngatehini before Makere ?—Noa te Whata, father of Eaniera. 53. Then, why is Makere chief instead of Eaniera?—You only asked me for one. 54. You stated yesterday that the £700 was paid to Mr. Bell in 1886 : was not that a mistake ? was it not in 1891 ?—I thought it was paid then, because that was the time he came up; very likely I made a mistake. 55. Mr. Fraser asked you what would happen if Kemp alone had been in this title : if he had been alone in the title, and did not give you any land in No. 11, what would you do ?—lf Kemp alone had been in the block we should have known that everything would have been straight. 56. But, supposing he had not given you any land, what would you have done ; where would you have gone?—He would have given me land. 57. You cannot conceive that he would not give you land ?—No. 58. You gave him No. 2, and he was to give you a quarter-acre in every ten; if so, why has he not done so?—We pat this block in Kemp's name for him to sell as a township. 59. But he was to give back every tenth section ?—That was your fault. . 60. Who told you that it was I who prevented these sections going back to you? —Because you conducted the case first of all; you did not do so properly, and then were sent off. 61. But who told you I prevented your getting these quarter-acres back?—l heard the people say it was your fault; I heard Europeans say it was your fault. 62. Can you tell me anyone who told you this ? —I heard it, not from people living with me, but from outsiders. 63. You say you are the present chief of this great hapu, Ngatiao. Who told you it was I who was to blame for your not getting the quarter-acres?—l heard Europeans saying so. 64. Do you not know the name of a single person from whom you heard it ?—-I do not know who they were. 65. Do you believe every word that everybody tells you that you meet in the street ? —I heard, and I said nothing. 66. Did Kemp tell you so ?—No; I did not hear it from him. 67. Did Sir Walter Buller tell you ?—No ; if T had heard it from either of them I should say so. 68. Who did you understand were to receive land in Block 11—the whole of the persons in the certificate, or only some of them ? —I did not hear the whole of them. 69. Who was to determine which of them was to go in ?—Kemp would decide and select those who were to go in. 70. What were the people whom he rejected to do ?—They had got land elsewhere. 71. Kipa te Whatanui.] Have you seen the first Whatanui? —-Yes; I have seen the first Whatanui. 72. Do you know what they had determined to do amongst themselves?—l heard they had made arrangements amongst themselves. 73. Do you know that they agreed to a boundary between themselves called Tauataruru ?— No ; I do not know. 74. Do you not know that the name of Taueki was in the lease on the north side of the block ? —No. 75. Did not Whatanui get £10 for the land between Tauataruru and the Hokio Stream ? —No. 76. If it is said that at the meeting at Kupe he said he got £10 ?—lt was paid to Whatanui for this side, not the other side ; it was this side he leased. 77. If I produce before the Court papers of Hector McDonald's about this lease, will you say it is correct ?—That may be what Hector says. 78. Was it Muaupoko who fetched Hector from Otaki to live on this land ?—No; it was Whatanui. 79. When Hector came and lived at the mouth of the Hokio, did not Whatanui lease it to Hector—from there to Eaumatangi ?—He leased the south side of it. 80. From Eaumatangi to Mahoenui and from there to Eakauhamama ?—Yes. 81. Did Hector pay the rent to Muaupoko, or to Te Whatanui?—-To Te Whatanui. 82. Do you not know that Whatanui in 1869 made a new lease to Hector ?—No. 83. Do you know that after that lease was made he died ?—I do not know anything about the lease. 84. Where was Whatanui taken ill first ?—At Manawaikeakea.

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