101

G.—2

103. Mr. Baldwin.'] The Muaupoko had an affection for Te Whatanui after what he had done for them in the past, had they not ?—The Muaupoko and Whatanui lived in peace and quietness, and then the troubles commenced. 104. When did the troubles commence?— After the death of old Whatanui. 105. The tribe had an affection for old Whatanui for the assistance he had rendered them against Te Eauparaha ?—No. 106. Did not Te Whatanui assist them against Te Eauparaha ?—When he came down here we found him fighting against Te Eauparaha. 107. Did not Te Whatanui assist Muaupoko against Te Eauparaha?—They were not saved by Te Whatanui. 108. In connection with No. 9, the persons for whom it was to be given were left entirely to Kemp, were they not ? —Yes; it was left for Kemp to give to whoever he chose; it was given to Kemp for the people; it was given to Kemp, and he gave it to the descendants of Te Whatanui. 109. It was for Kemp to say to which of the descendants he would give it ?—Yes; we had nothing to do with it; we gave it to Kemp. 110. Mr. Morison.] Are there any of the descendants of Te Whatanui living on this land now ?—Yes. 111. Who are they? —They are living on No. 11—Hitau and Hema Winiata and others. 112. The latter is Nicholson's sister?— Yes. 113. Kipa te Whatanui.] Can you tell where on this land the plantations of Te Whatanui are? —Yes; they are in the 100 acres awarded to them by the Court. 114. Were there not other plantations outside of this 100 acres ? —I do not know. 115. Do you not know that Te Whatanui had plantations at Kohutoroa ?—I do not know. 116. Do you not know that after the death of Te Whatanui in 1869 Watene went on these plantations? —Yes; I know that; the Muaupoko were there and the Ngatipariri. 117. Were not the houses that Kawana burned on this land ?—Yes. 118. Are not Te Mairi, Kawakawa, and Patuitui plantations that belonged to Te Whatanui?—■ I do riot know that those were Whatanui's. 119. If it is proved that the Court named those places, would it be correct ?—I do not know; I know nothing about them. 119 a. Do you know plantations at Eakauhamama, an eel-weir?—l know nothing about it. 120. If Kawana had known these places did not belong to Te Whatanui, would he have burned them ?—The houses that were burnt belonged to Te Puke. 121. Was that Te Puke of Ngatiraukawa ? —Yes. 121 a. Were all these lands within the lands that were leased to Hector McDonald?—l do not know. 122. Do you not know that from the mouth of the Hokio on to Eaumatangi, and on to Mahoenui, turning to Eakauhamama and back, included the land that was leased to Hector for twenty-one years ?—Yes. 123. Is not the 1,200 acres within the piece of land leased to Hector ?—Yes. 124. Was it not since the Court that sat in 1873 that the land was given to Kemp, and taken away from these other people ?—Yes. 125. It was then settled that Kemp should give 1,200 acres to the descendants of Te Whatanui ? —Yes. 125 a. But before the year 1873, Kemp had no right or say to this land? —I have a right there, and Kemp has a right there. 126. When this land was leased to Hector for twenty-one years, did any one of you go and object to his having it ? —Yes ; I went up there and killed some cattle, and we tied up some sheep. 127. Did Te Whatanui lease this land to old Hector before he died ?—Yes ; in 1869. 128. Did not Kemp give No. 14 to the descendants of Te Whatanui?—Yes. 129. Did not the descendants of Te Whatanui say they would not have this block—that it was not their land ?—Yes; they wished to be placed on the land that originally belonged to them, where their eel-weirs and cultivations were. 130. Were their eel-weirs and cultivations, and so forth, on the piece of land that was afterwards given to them ?—No; Kemp arranged all that; it was by his consent that they were left outside. 131. If it had been left to the descendents of Taueki to do this, would they have forgotten the teachings of their own ancestors ?—What they left to the descendants of Taueki was the 100 acres given by the Native Land Court. 132. Is not Kemp always carrying out the conditions of the Treaty of Waitangi?—Yes; but he did not understand that this block had anything to do with it. 133. Do you know the trouble that took place between the Muaupoko and the Ngatiraukawa on this block after 1873 ?—Yes. 134. Do you not know that it was in consequence of this trouble that the Government sent to Mr. Booth to tell the opponents to come back to Otaki ?—Yes. 135. Do you not know, that in consequence of this, SirD. McLean said this trouble was caused by very silly and selfish action, and that he would given them 300 acres to settle it ?—Yes. 136. Do you not know that this land was given for the purpose of ending all the troubles ?—Yes. 137. Were the plantations and eel-weirs and settlements and houses of these people included in the 1,200 acres given to them ? —lt was left to Kemp. 138. Was not the piece left outside belonging also to Te Whatanui ?—That was my piece. 139. Did you obtain your right to that piece after 1873 ?—They tried to do away with my right in 1873, but failed to do so; they did away with their own claim.