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520. Mr. Beare.] If you were informed that the mine had been worked for one and a half hours before the explosion, would that be an indication to you that the examination had been made, and that everything was found correct —that there was no gas in the mine? —I think so. 521. Had there been gas there, would it not have been an indication that the explosion would have taken place before?—lf there had been any accumulation of gas. 522. Sir J. Hector.] When you went into the mine with the lamps on the first occasion, how many hours was it after the explosion ?—About twenty-two hours afterwards. 523. Did you have any occasion to lower your lamps to the floor ?—I tried for gas in all directions. Of course, I had some men under my charge, and I wished to find out everything. 524. Did you find any indication of the presence of white-damp anywhere ?—I found carbonic oxide. 525. Any carbonic acid?— Our lamps burned brightly, although the men were overpowered. This showed that carbonic oxide was present. 526. Was there any sign of black after-damp?—l only noticed the carbonic oxide. The only time our lamps went out was when they were knocked out through not being handled properly. Our lamps would not have burned in after-damp. 527. And they will not burn in black-damp?— No. 528. But they did burn in this gas ? —Yes. 529. And still some of the rescuing party were suffering ? —The men were knocked down. 530. There was something present which made them insensible without at the same time affecting the burning lamps ?—Yes. 531. What did you suspect it was?—l think carbonic oxide. 532. What proportion of carbonic oxide would produce insensibility?—lt is a very small amount; I think about 2 per cent. I can read it to you from Hughes: " Carbonic oxide is variously known as carbon monoxide and white-damp. Its chemical symbol is CO, and specific gravity 0-97. Luckily its presence is much less frequent in mines than black-damp, as it is far more poisonous than that gas. As little as 1 per cent, produces giddiness and faintness, while over 2 per cent, may cause death. Indeed, -J- per cent, breathed for any length of time is fatal. Carbonic oxide is known by its sweet and delicate odour and deadly results. Candles burn well in this gas, if anything, a little brighter, although their flame is not elongated until 12-J- per cent, is present. It is produced by imperfect combustion, and especially by spontaneous ignition." Atkinson also says: " This gas is perhaps never found in coal-mines except as the result of the explosion of gunpower, or the imperfect combustion of coal or wood. . . . Such a proportion of this gas may be mixed with air as to form a mixture in which candles or lamps would burn, while life would become extinct; and it is probable that many deaths in mines have resulted from the gas in situations where the lights have continued to burn." I was going to remark that with regard to three explosions in the north of England, that they had the same effects there. Their lamps continued to burn, while the men were overpowered, and this was traced to coal-dust explosions. 533. From what you have seen of this mine, do you think there was sufficient provision made for ventilation ?—Yes; it had more than the required quantity of air. 534. You formed an opinion from using an anemometer ? —I could tell it by feeling, without testing with that instrument. 535. Mr. Proud.] Could you not have worked this mine safely by using a flameless explosive and a self-contained electric lamp of moderate weight, and burning about ten hours ? —The electric lamp does not give you any sign of the presence of gas. That is its great drawback. 536. You could test for firedamp in the ordinary way ?—You mean, you would have an additional lamp ? 537. Yes?— The electric lamp has not been sufficiently developed to come into practical use y- et--538. Mr. Skellon.] You think it was eighteen months since this shot-hole was drilled in the solid ? —I gather it was that length of time from the accumulation of rubbish in the board. 539. Was this tramway there then [indicated on the map] ?—Yes ; but I do not think you could get at the top coal, as the tram seemed to be right against the face. 539 a. Do you not think it is a rather curious way of laying a tramway—in the way you have mentioned ?—lt is very likely they were going to open the face. 540. On the side of the pillar ?—I do not know when the tram was laid, but of course if you want to get at the top coal you must be close up to the face. 541. From the way it is shown here, is it not more likely that the pillar has been stripped all along? —I do not know. The bord is driven in rather an irregular fashion. 542. You think this tramway has been in eighteen months?—l do not know anything about the rails. lam speaking of the bord. 543. You would hardly leave a tramway in a worked-out bord for eighteen months?—No; I should imagine it has been brought in ready for starting new work. I do not think a tub of coal has gone out of that tramway. It has not been a regular working-place. To get at the top coal, the man working it would keep his rails as much as possible on the high side. 544. The Chairman.] Is there any evidence of a shot having been fired from that shot-hole?— Everything points to it. There is carbonaceous matter like curls or icicles hanging from the roof. 545. Does it seem to have been a recently-fired shot ?—Everything points to such having taken place. 546. Sir J. Hector.] Within a short time? —■ Within a recent period, otherwise the signs would be obliterated. I have got an exhibit of coal from Mr. Brown, taken from this point. 547. Mr. Proud.] You could not get an explosion of coal-dust by a naked light or an ordinary flame, could you ?—No; it would require a blown-out shot. The Commission adjourned at 4 o'clock p.m.