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works, and other local manufacturers ?—Yes, we get our fair share of it when the work has to be done in a limited time, but when it is not confined to time it is mostly sent Home for. It is principally a matter of time if the work is done here. 55. Do these freezing companies and other concerns complain of their difficulty to pay the prices you charge for machinery?— Not exactly ; but we have to cut the price so low to get within a reasonable rate of the price of the Home article that there is nothing in it; but if we were to charge anything like the rate of profit which the Home people put on their goods, we should be simply out of it altogether. 56. In other words, this Bill would be the means of reducing your power to compete with imported machinery ? —Yes. 57. Are you at present making machinery for any of the Australian Colonies?—We have exported some plant to Australia lately. 58. So that the reply you just now gave would apply to your power to make such machinery as you are now exporting to Australia ?—Well, it would increase the cost considerably, and possibly prevent orders from coming. 59. Mr. Miller.'] You said just now that this schedule of wages would practically prohibit you from competing with imported machinery, and at a previous stage you said it would increase the wages of the boys 100 per cent. ? —ln some cases. 60. Can you give us some idea of how much (supposing the schedule was adopted) it would increase the wages per week ?—I cannot go into that without going into figures. 61. I believe you employ as many boys as any firm in the colony, and I want to know what the increased cost under the schedule would be. Is it a certain amount per week ?—lt is a percentage. 62. What would it actually cost you in increased wages per week?—lt would come to an increase of about 5 per cent, on the amount of work done. 63. Would I be taking a fair average if I put down the weekly wage paid to the boys at £20— an average of twenty boys, at £1 per week? —Yes; we will say that. 64. Then-, under this Bill, there would be an increase of £52 per annum ?—I intended to say 5 per cent, on the cost of the article. 65. I want to be told what would be the average increase to you under that schedule?—lt would come to about from 70 to 80 per cent, on the wages. 66. According to that, the maximum wage you pay any boy in the last year of his time is— ? —18s. Under this new schedule we would have to pay £1 16s. 67. Under the schedule for the first year what is the increase ?—2s. 6d. increase from 6s. It would be 70 per cent, increase right through. 68. Mr. Buchanan.] Are any premiums paid by apprentices in any branch of the engineering for the privilege of learning the trade ?—Some of our boys pay a premium to learn all the branches of the trade, and they are put through the drawing office and commercial department after they have completed their apprenticeship. 69. Was that with the rate of pay, at some stages of the apprenticeship, 70 per cent, lower than the schedule in the Bill, that you found some apprentices willing to pay a premium ?—Some of the apprentices are willing ; very few though. 70. Supposing this Bill becomes law, and the schedule of wages in the Bill is made compulsory, do you think that a greater number of apprentices that enter your service will be willing to pay a premium for the privilege ?—1 do not think so. We might get some to pay a premium; but if we have this Bill we will have to demand a premium to protect ourselves. 71. The Chairman.] You mentioned the fact that dairy plant and small engines come in free. Is it the difference in cost of what you are able to produce that causes people to send Home for machinery ? —Principally. 72. And if the wages paid are increased, of course that would intensify that?-- Yes, it would intensify it. 73. Mr. Buchanan.] Is there any difference in the rate of pay, including the apprentices, and that paid by engineering firms in England for work of the same class ?—As far as I understand, the wages at Home are about £116s. for tradesmen, fitters, and turners, and I think the apprentices start at 3s. a week; so that it is about 45 per cent, in the case of journeymen, and 100 per cent, difference in the case of apprentices.

Wednesday, 26th Septembeb, 1894. Alpbed Lindsay, Boot-manufacturer, examined. Mr. Lindsay : I have read right through the whole of the Bill, and I may say I do not think it is wanted at all. I think it important, however, that the lads should have an opportunity to learn a trade, and that some protection should be given them after. Of course, I speak with regard to my own trade. I think the restrictions made by trades unions, which prohibit any more than one boy being employed unless three men are employed, quite sufficient. 1. The Chairman: Those are the trades union rules ?—Yes; but even with those restrictions we turn out more skilled labour than we can employ, even after that limit. The difficulty is, as far as my trade is concerned, the workers will not do boys' work; they take the liberty of choosing, but they will not take the responsibility. With regard to clause 5, the difficulty we have experienced is in apprenticing girls. Some will come on pretty late, and some will get married ; and the whole thing will be upset, independent of the other excuses they make when they want to get away. I think the restrictions in the post-office and savings-bank clause, for the employer to collect the money, is a great hardship. There are plenty of boys whom the parents are dependent on, and they would find the deduction of a few shillings a week a hardship to themselves as well as a trouble to their employer.