39

G.—4c

lease was signed.) I said to him, "Oh ! you have joined the gang, have you ! " After that day I never spoke to him for many years. Stockman is wrong in saying that the boundary for which the agreement was signed at Waitara was at Kohatutahi. The agreement signed there included the whole of the Mokau-Mohakatino Block. With regard to the alleged interest of Shore's widow in the lease, after the land went through the Court I spoke to her, and said that some time before her husband had died there had been a complete separation amongst the lot of us. She said she knew nothing at all about it, and that Shore had never told her husband much, and her husband had never told her much about the particulars. She said, " One thing I can tell you —that is, if the old man ever led you to believe that Heremia is agreeable for you to go up the river any distance, ho misled you." I said, " This thing is likely to come to a finish, and in marking off any land for the old man I will see that you are protected " (because I knew that half the cattle were hers). "If no arrangements are made with the old man I will still see that you get a piece of good land to put you in independence." She seemed quite friendly ; but, of course, nothing has ever come of it, as I have never been able to get the lease completed. I have heard the evidence of Te Oro read over to me. Immediately the lease was signed at Mokau I came down to New Plymouth and got a duplicate deed drawn up on parchment, at my own cost, in both languages, and put it into Te Eerenga's hands. This was after the lease had been signed. I saw him give the deed to Miki, his son-in-law, to take up to Mokau ; which I believe he did. This was within two or three days after the signing of the lease. I was particular in seeing that this deed was sent to the Natives, so that they might have it for their information. Te Oro stood aloof from the rest of the people when the signing was going on. He came to me and asked me if I would give him £10 to sign. I said I would give him nothing. He said, " You have never before refused me when I have asked you. Won't you give me something for blankets and a shawl ?" I said, " I will give you nothing in connection with the lease, but here is £2 for you for blankets and a shawl; but you need not sign the lease at all." He said, Yes, he would sign the lease ; and went and signed it. When he came out he said, " Will you owe me £8 ? " I said, " We will talk about that when the thing is finished; but you know you can always get a pound off me when you want it."

Saturday, 11th August, 1888. Joshua Jones (evidence continued). After Captain Messenger furnished his report to the Native Minister, Mr. Bryce sent for me. I waited on him in his office in Wellington. He asked me to show him the two deeds referred to in Captain Messenger's report, and to point out to him the signatures on the new deed of those who had signed the old deed. I did so, and Mr. Bryce then expressed himself satisfied, and said, " I see there is no wrong on your part. I cannot see that anything wrong has been done, and I cannot understand Captain Messenger having written* such a letter." When I left his office I understood that ho was satisfied. After Mr. Ballance came into office I spoke to him about the matter, and he said, " I have heard about this matter. There is nothing against you in it. Why did Captain Messenger write such a letter? " I have heard the evidence which was given by Pumipi Kauparara read over. He states that he was not drunk w Then he signed the deed ; but in my presence in the Besident Magistrate's Court in New Plymouth he stated that he was drunk when he signed it. When the Judge came to New Plymouth last year to hold a Land Court, Pumipi, Eimirata and Te Berenga, went with me into the office of Mr. Hughes, solicitor, New Plymouth, and counted up the back rents due on the lease. There were three years' rent due, and a fourth about to become due. Pumipi and the other two said it was correct. Eimarata particularly stated to Mr. Hughes, "We believe this money is correct, but we are afraid, if we take it, some of those who are not entitled to share in it may share in it, because no partition has been made." Te Eerenga and Pumipi wanted to take the money, but Rimarata stood out against it for the reason before given, and said to Mr. Hughes, " You hold the money until the Court has made a partition of the land." Mr. Hughes is still prepared to pay them the money upon that understanding. That is what I believe to be the £100 referred to by Wetere te Eerenga in his evidence. With regard to the evidence of To Huia, it is untrue that he was not present at the negotiations for the lease. Ho was not only present, but took a prominent part in fixing the boundary at Mangapohue, and getting the signatures. With regard to the evidence of Puketea Pupurutu, his statements are untrue. 1 never asked him to sign the deed : his wife, Parehuakarua, said to him, " The lease is all right; you sign it: " and he did so. With regard to the evidence of Heta Tokiriki, I myself saw him sign the deed, it is not true that he was drunk. He is a near neighbour of mine ; I know him well. I have a distinct recollection of seeing him sign the deed, and he certainly was not drunk at the time. With regard to the evidence of Wetere te Eerenga, I wish to give some explanation as to the statement made by him about my wanting to alter the terms of the lease. The truth is, the proposal emanated from himself. W Tetere came to me and said, " The Natives do not understand this about the 10 per cent, for the coal : make the rent an additional £100 a year—that is, £125 a year in all—and there is an end of everything," or words to that effect. With regard to the statement made by Wetere as to the moneys received by him from me, I now put in an agreement signed by Wetere [Exhibit No. 38], which, with the documents attached, will explain the relations which existed between Wetere and myself with regard to myself. Under that agreement I have given him money from time to time as he required it to pay his expenses, and for his trouble. The last money I paid him under that agreement was, I think, in February last. It is untrue that he lent me £15, as he says he did, or any other sum. With regard to the statement that I drove off horses of the Maoris for running on the land, and killed their pigs : About two