a.—4c

40

years ago there were about five or six'hundred pigs running upon the land. The Maoris offered them to a Mr. Gilmour for 6d. apiece to get rid of them, as there was nothing for them to eat, and they could do nothing with them ; Mr. Gilmour would not take them at any price, and the Natives and I came to the conclusion to kill the pigs. They killed numbers of them, and I killed a lot, to get rid of them. What I did was with their consent. All the years I have lived at' Mokau neither I nor my family have ever taken a pig belonging to the Natives for my own use, or ever injured a pig in the spirit in which Wetero's evidence would lead you to suppose. The Natives removed the best of their pigs at that time on the south bank of the Mohakatino, so as to keep them away from the land 1 was occupying, as I had complained of mischief done by them. The horses were in much the same condition as the pigs —there was no food for them. Epiha and others told me to drive them off my place, and drive them to a certain place called Tongaporutu, where there was good grass. One day I and my son drove them there. The next day, a lot of them attempted to come back along the beach. Three of the horses got caught by the tide at the point, and were drowned. They were unbroken colts, worth perhaps about 10s. apiece. I saw them drowned. The next day .1 went and told the Natives about them. Two of them belonged, I think, to Kauparara, and one to Takirau. They paid not the least attention to it. ' First they said, " Never mind. We often get things from you, such as blankets, &c.;" and secondly, that they were of no value. This must be about two years ago, in the month of May or June ; and three or four of the horses had actually died from want of food before I drove them off. It is not true, as stated by Wetere, that the grass had been sown by the Maoris. In 1876 I bought grass-seed in New Plymouth for which Macmillan and I paid over £60, and which was sown on the ground referred to. The Natives never took any seed there, but they have used the grass I have sowed, and have taken seed off it. "With regard to the telegram sent by Wetere to the Chief Judge, as referred to in his evidence, it came about in this way : Mrs. Walker sent for me from Mokau to come at once, and she would sign my lease forme. George Stockman gave me the message. Mr. Gilmour told me that as he was leaving Waitara to go to Mokau Mrs. Walker asked him to tell me to come down, and she would sign my lease. When Stockman spoke to me I said, "I have never asked that woman to sign my lease inxny life, and I don't want her to sign. She has no tribal right, although she is named in the order. I would sooner have a Land Court, and cut her out of the part in which I am interested." Stockman said, "You had better go down;" and upon that I drew up an agreement for her to sign, the effect of which was to give her so much per annum for her interest, so that she would have nothing to do with the lease. I went down to Waitara. In the morning, before I was out of bed, Stockman reached Waitara by steamer, and came into my room. He said, " I have seen Wetere and Mrs. Walker, and she is coming up directly to sign your paper." I said I could not trust her, but if she came to sign it was all very well. After breakfast Airs. Walker came up to my sitting-room in the hotel and began to talk about the paper. She had not seen it, but I told her the effect of it. She desired some talk about it. I said, " You can either sign this or not I never asked you to do it. 1 won't discuss it with you. Bring your husband here, and let him see it signed." She called her Maker to witness that she would come and sign it after breakfast. I said, " Why do you do that? I have not asked you to do it." She said, " Because you have not interfered with my husband getting his title on the north bank." She said, "My husband is away at the telegraph-station. When he returns I will come up and sign it." I said, "1 do not believe it.'' About 12 o'clock I met Stockman. I said, " Why have you brought me down here about this matter on the word of this woman? I can neither believe her nor you." He said, '■'The fact is, they have gone and sent a telegram to the Chief Judge Macdonald to know whether they can sign the lease or not, and Major Brown has put them up to it." I said, "It is another trick. Brown knows what the answer is going to be." About 3 o'clock that afternoon Mrs. Walker came down to the hotel with Te Eerenga. She said, "My husband will not allow me to sign that paper. Major Brown is advising him not to allow us to do it." Te Rerenga found fault with Mrs. Walker in my presence about her not signing. Ho said, " You know you have got no right in the land at all. You have got your name in the title by crying to Eewi, and saying your husband had nowhere to live. I objected to your name going in at ail, and now you are making a fool of Jones again. I will work against you." She said, " While I was arguing with my husband and Major Brown, and saying I would sign, he up with his fist, and if it was not for Major Brown he would have knocked me over." I said, " Why was ho going to strike you?" She replied "It was because I said I had no tribal claim in the land." I said, " I told you I had no faith in you : you were only a tool in the hands of these people." She admitted that it was the case, and although they would not allow her to sign, slag would try to induce others to sign it. I said, "I don't want to have.anything to do, .with \ 't.1' That ended the interview at tiiat time. Subsequently, at the Native Laud Court,-Judge Wilson was very particular in ascertaining what this woman's claim was; and the whole of the owners in Court said she ha i no tribal interest whatever. At the time this interview took place I do not think the answer to Wetere's telegram to the Chief Judge had come. I attribute the change in the minds of the Natives to a great extent to the fact of the difficulties experienced in the Native Land Court in all matters relating to this block, and to the apparent facilities with which they saw other land dealt with in the same neighbourhood by the Court, in some of which land they were themselves interested. Persons who have never spent a shilling at Mokau have gone in ten minutes and got a title from the Court —a direct title. The persons I refer to are Messrs. Morrin, and Russell, and Walker; and the land I refer to is right opposite to my block, and is known as Mangoaira and Mangapapa. The hostility is not owing to any act I have done against the Natives. I have always acted friendly towards them, as is well known in Taranaki. W 7ith regard to the evidence given by Chief Judge Macdonald, the reason. I did not make my