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453. Your attention has been already directed to these nomination-papers. Have they to be signed in the presence of a Justice of the Peace, or licensed interpreter, or a person in the service of the Government ?—lt is less, I believe, than it used to be in the case of private persons getting signatures. 454. Taking into account the answer you have given? —I wish to make a remark. It is only necessary here to go before one person. That would, of course, diminish the expense. 455. But, still, having to get a large number of votes —that is, a considerable number beyond the mere majority—would the expense be even still great in a case where there are, say, two or three hundred owners?—ln that, or rather in this, case it would be just the expense of a continuous payment to one person ; for he would have to ride about from hapu to hapu or kainga. It would not be so expensive as where-you would have to pay two professional men to go driving about the country. 456. Do you think the expense would be great or small in carrying out this clause in regard to property where there are from two to three hundred owners?—lt would be considerable in any case, seeing that some are dead; some would be found at the Bay of Islands, or Mercury Bay, or in the Wairarapa. 457. Hon. Mr. Ballance.] You'said that it would take three years to complete an election under this Bill ? —No ; Ido not say that. I did not refer merely to the operation of the clause providing for the election of the Committee; but there is another question which I thought I was answering—namely, whether I thought it would take a considerable time before the Maoris themselves would be disposed to come in and deal with their land in this way. I think it will be several years before they become so disposed. If they were disposed of themselves to come in and do it, the mere " doing " would not take long. 458. Have you any knowledge of the Committees provided for under the Act of 1883 ? —I have experience of other Committees, but not under that Act. I have a Committee on my own run, but in my case it is not a Committee like that: there are two pakehas on it. 459. Are you aware of the time it took after that Act was passed to bring it into force, and for the Natives to elect ? —I think they were all elected in one day—the day appointed : they were not limited to any proportion. I think it was a majority of those who voted only. Ido not say more than that each candidate must have a majority of owners. 460. Did not the greater number respond ?—Yes ; I think most of the Natives voted. 461. Do you not think that, where the Natives have to deal with their own lands, their interest in the result will be greater than in that case ?—I feel sure it would be greater. 462. You said that where they have to take the initiative themselves they would not take much trouble, and you also said that in Wi Pere's case they took a vital interest, for all the people voted? —Perhaps I should have been more guarded in expressing myself. That was a political election, which at another time would have produced war among the Natives : it was a defiance of the old hereditary chiefs by the young ones ; it was also a defiance, on the part of the Natives of the Coast against those of Gisborne and other parts. That was the reason why there was such great interest taken in it. 463. You also pointed out that there would be some rivalry between the old and the young men in the case of these local Committees under this Bill ?—Yes ; but I think the old men will go to the wall under this system. I think the interest will be gradually stamped out if this policy is carried into effect. 464. You have been asked whether it would not require a much larger number than a simple majority to elect a Committee. Where there are more than seven candidates will it not happen that, under this 13th clause, a simple majority of owners is quite sufficient, irrespective of the number of candidates ?—Speaking from a hurried reading of the Bill and clause 13, which I was questioned on at first, it appears to me to contain no provision as to that one way or the other. Clause 14 leads one to the- view that the persons who get the most votes will be the elected. Ido not know what alterations are being made, but I cannot say that clause 13 conveys to my mind any information whatever. 465. First of all you would read it that the names receiving the most votes would be elected the Committee ?—Yes, 466. If there were twelve candidates, those who received the most votes would be elected. Then, under clause 13, it is provided that the election shall_be by nomination in writing. What do you think that means ? does it mean the election of one owner or of the whole Committee ?—lt appears to me to refer to the entire body—that it means the entire nomination. 467. Sir George Grey.] I should like to ask you a question or two with reference to your answers to the questions put to you yesterday. You stated yesterday that it had never been illegal to deal with Natives for land that had not gone through the Court?— With the exception of the law as it was under the Ordinance having effect till about the year 1864 and lands under proclamation, that would of course be understood. 468. Are you aware of this clause relating to that (1865): " Every conveyance, transfer, agreement, contract, or promise affecting or relating to any Native land in respect of which a certificate of title shall not have been issued by the Court, shall be absolutely void ?" —That did not make it illegal to my mind; there is no penalty attached. 469. Do you think that the going about making deeds which the law said were not to have any effect, but were absolutely null and void, was a proper thing to do and not an illegal thing ?—lt is outside the law. The law gave you no protection if you did it. It called it " void," certainly ; but, on the other hand, it did not say that there was a penalty attached to it. 470. This Act will give a certain validity to what the .law at present says is void : it will give validity to such transactions ? —As I understand it, it is proposed, in bringing these lands under the law, which are at present as I have said outside it, to take them over with all such objec-