25

I.—2b.

all. It is a novelty introduced by ourselves. The consequence of it, I think, will be considerable division in the tribe. If there is to be an election the older chiefs and larger owners will think they should have the greater " say "in the matter. The older men will separate or perhaps hold aloof, whereas the young men and. the more eloquent men will be favoured with the support of the other large section of the tribe. 434. But then, you think that a deep interest will be taken in the election of the Committee ? —It is not at all times the principal owners or the principal chiefs of the hapus that would get elected under these circumstances. 435. That answer does not apply to my question; it only applies to people who would be elected. lam asking about the interest taken in the election itself. Do you not think that if there are different sections of a tribe holding different views, that of itself would increase the interest ?— Yes ; I have seen a great deal of interest taken in the election of a member for the House of Bepresentatives. When Wi Pere was elected the candidates must have polled the great part of the tribe ; but in that case it went chiefly by hapus. The people who belonged to a particular district overwhelmed those who belonged to another. I think it would be the same in some blocks of land. There are always several hapus concerned. The principal owners might be overwhelmed or not, according as they might have the most names in the deed. 436. Now, with regard to the men elected, do you not think that the chiefs of influence with the hapus and the tribe would stand the best chance of election ?—Speaking from my experience of the past of the country that I know best, I do not think they would be at all certain to be elected. 437. Then what class would be chosen in your part of the country? —In my part of the country the men that would be chosen would be those who were most about the European settlements ; they would be the persons supposed to know best how to get the highest prices out of Europeans without regard to their having or not having any interest in the block, and those Natives who could talk most would be supposed to be best qualified. 438. But I suppose they would talk best? —The talk among Maoris is altering altogether. The old Maori talk is altogether different from the new; the old Maori orator would look upon the younger orator as a very poor speaker, but the younger man would say that it was more in accordance with the usages of Parliament to talk in his way. 439. Mr. Ormond.] Of course, in making this inquiry, you understand we are endeavouring to arrive at the means of providing machinery for the land being settled?— Yes. 440. And that the formation of these Committees is the first necessary element ? —Yes. 441. In your former evidence you described the difficulties Europeans have had in getting a majority of owners to agree either to lease or sell, or indeed to any proposal; all such transactions, then, you would say, are only arrived at after great trouble and expense in getting the people together for the purpose ?—Yes. 442. Now, when it was left to the Native to take the initiative altogether, and no pressure of any kind was upon him, do you think that he would be likely to take much trouble for this purpose ? —Well, I suppose the members of this Committee are aware that the Maoris are not very fond of persistent trouble for any length of time, so that I think they would not be likely to take the same trouble that Europeans would under similar circumstances. 443. Do you or do you not think that effect would be given to the provisions of the Bill by the Natives themselves being allowed to take the initiatory action and appointing a Committee ? — It will be a good many years before it is carried out in some places. lam living among a people where, judging from what one sees, I think it could hardly be done under three years in any place. 444. Colonel Trimble.] You have told us that it cost you a great deal of money to get the signatures required?— Yes. 445. It is a mere truism to say that it costs less to get half the signatures than to get, say, ihirteen-seventeenths of them ? —Yes, but you must bear in mind that it is disproportionate ; that is to say, as you increase the number the signature of each is more difficult to get, each remaining man being more difficult to get at; several are always out of the way. 446. You have stated that two or three hundred would be by no means an unusual number interested in a block ?—Yes ; but I guard myself by saying that I speak of the district which I know best. I never had anything to do with Native land myself except up there. 447. According to clause 13 you are aware that a majority of the owners of the land have to make a nomination in writing'to the seven persons that they require to be on the Committee?— Yes. 448. Would they be likely to insist, on exactly the same persons?—lt appears to me to be a cumulative vote: the one that got the most votes would be elected—something like the school committee. Hon. Mr. Ballance : No ; you can concentrate seven votes on one person on the school-com-mittee system. It is different in this. 449. Colonel Trimble.] Unless the majority concur in appointing exactly the same seven persons, would it not require a considerable number more than the bare majority to elect the seven? —That is obvious. I have not given much attention to the mode of election. 450. This is the ordinary mode. If that be the case, then ;is it not obviously necessary that a very much larger number than the mere majority should take part in the election ?—Perhaps so. That, surely, is a question that this Committee would be more capable of answering than I am. 451. But I want to put it in evidence ? —I would like to make a remark, if the Committee will allow me, on this subject, in order to show how, in my opinion, the principal intention of the Bill might be facilitated. 452. We were talking abotit the expense of getting signatures ? —Yes ; it is very great in my part of the country —in fact, all over it. 4—l. 2b.