1,-5.

10

Inspector, Mr. Thompson, to say that the dipping will not be required, so that our grievance is practically settled now. As the sheep had to be dipped as soon as they were landed, considerable loss was occasioned to the farmer, as the sheep were knocked about and damaged more than was at all necessary. 236. But you now think the question which you wished to raise before the Committee is settled ?—For the present it is so. You will perceive that if sheep had a bad passage it would not be possible to slaughter them, as they would be quite unfit for freezing purposes. Having been so bruised and knocked about" 1 it would be useless to kill them until the bruises healed, when they might have to be dipped by the present regulations. 237. Do you propose any way of getting out of the difficulty other than the Act provides ?— The officers who administer the Act, they say, cannot go beyond the Act itself. But I think there is a way of getting out of the difficulty where sheep are going from a clean to an infected district. I think that some such system as this might be adopted, viz., that vessels should have a license or clean certificate granted, and that, so long as the certificate holds good, sheep shipped by those vessels should be exempt from dipping if they are shipped from a clean port; unless, indeed, where they were put into infected yards after landing Such a license might have effect as long as the ships were clean, but it should be cancelled if they carried sheep from an infected port. 238. Auckland is an infected district, you say ?—Yes, and so is the West Coast; but the East Coast, from Hawke's Bay boundary, at Akiteo, to Poverty Bay Sheep District is clean. 239. In other respects you say the Act works well ?—ln its application to scab it has worked well. I believe it works well if put in force strictly by the officers appointed to do so. In Poverty Bay we had an excellent man, who eradicated scab in less than two years. Stock was running there under circumstances which made it very difficult to get a muster. He put the Act so strongly into force that he succeeded with the aid of the settlers in cleaning the stock. He strictly enforced penalties. In consequence of his action everybody did his best. 240. Were the fines ever remitted ?—Yes, I think in one or two cases they were. Some heavy fines were however enforced, but some of these I believe were eventually remitted. 241. You have no other point to which you would refer?— What we wanted was to get stock from a clean district to an infected district without the necessity of dipping. Hon. Mr. Williamson : I think that any law which was made for Gisborne would have to apply to the rest of New Zealand. You could not make any exception. Hon. the Chairman : Unless the Committee should make such a recommendation. 242. Mr, Buchanan.) Do the Poverty Bay settlers buy stock rams in Auckland?— Yes ; a feware bought every year. 243. Then, a steamer carrying, as you suggest, clean«heep from Poverty Bay to Auckland, with a certificate, and on the return journey taking back a ram to Poverty Bay : what would you do in such a case as that ?—Provision would have to be made for such a case. Would it not be possible, if sheep had been dipped within four or five days before going on board the ship, that the ship's certificate should hold good ? Wethers from the West Coast might be dipped in the same way. 244. In other words, you would attach the disability to the infected district and not to the clean one ?—Unless tl.j clean sheep come within the range of the infection there is no necessity to dip them. 245. Hon. the Chairman : I think you said the Inspector in the district put the Act into force strictly and eradicated scab; who was the Inspector?— Mr. Orbell. He is now Inspector in the Wairarapa District. 246. Mr. Buchanan.) How long do you say it took to clean Poverty Bay ? —Under two years ; that is, he cleaned the district in two seasons. 247. I think it is difficult to muster in some parts of that district ?—lt is worse than other parts. We had to kill and shoot a great many sheep which could not be got in. More than one hundred were shot or run down by dogs the last year. 248. Generally, what do you find to be the feeling in regard to the Inspector now that the district is clean ? —There is no feeling against Mr. Orbell on account of his being unduly harsh. I was fined myself once or twice. I think it was for my benefit, as well as those others who were fined, and for the benefit of the district. I would mention, if I might be allowed to do, the extraordinary fact that Auckland, which is the easiest district to clean, is still scabby and has been scabby for some years. 249. The same is true of Wanganui?—lt is some grievance to us that, while Poverty Bay is a clean district, in the Auckland District there remains scab. 250. Hon. the Chairman.) If Auckland were not scabby you would have no difficulty ? —None. Hon. Mr. Williamson.] The difficulty with regard to Auckland is that they get their sheep from all parts. I had a case of scab myself that was got from some sheep that were sent for slaughter. They were not able to kill them, and the whole of them went to the public slaughteryard. They were clean in the Waikato. 251. Mr. Lance.) Have you any experience as to rabbits?—No, I am happy to say. Hon. the Chairman : Mr. Chambers, I might mention, is Chairman of the County Council. I do so because, in giving evidence, his evidence, being Chairman of the County Council, would have greater weight than if he were a private individual.

The Hon. G. B. Johnson. „ 18th September, 1884. Sic,— With reference to the inquiries being made before the Committee on sheep and rabbits, I should like to state 'that in my opinion the only dips allowable by law for the eradication of scab should be " lime and sulphur," or tobacco. I have tried some of the most highly recommended patent dips, and have found them quite useless. lam sure that no cold dip is to be depended on.