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208. Under clause 27 of the Sheep Act, as you are aware, it is imperative on the owners of infected sheep to herd their sheep or keep them within lands substantially fenced, otherwise they are subject to a penalty of not less than 3d. nor more than 5s a head?—l believe it to be impossible to herd the sheep. 209. lam not asking that. I asked you whether any information had been laid against you? —No. 210. Then, as far as ypu are concerned, the Inspector has systematically neglected his duty with reference to you ?—lt was physically impossible to herd them. 211. That is not the question :it is the duty of the Inspector to carry out the Act ? —I did, on one occasion, get an order to herd, but it was simply impossible to do so. 212. Do you think that, under this Act, the Inspector has a dispensing power: is it your experience that Inspectors consider themselves to have a dispensing power with regard to the provisions of this Act? —There are certain provisions that it would be impossible to carry out. Under certain circumstances it is simply impossible : it could not be done unless there should be a clause to order the owner to take his sheep off the country altogether. Hon. Mr. Waterhouse : Practically it amounts to that. 213. Hon. the Chairman.) How many sheep were you carrying when you had the Jam Bun; I see here in the return for 1881, 44,000 ; for 1882, 40,000; and for 1883, 43,000 ?—That was previous to boiling down. 214. You were increasing very rapidly ?—We increased one year, and we boiled down a large number in the autumn ; we are reduced now to 40,000. 215. How many did you boil down ? —Four thousand. 216. In dipping, what dip do you use ? —Lime and sulphur. 217. Have you not used any other ? —No ; I do not believe in any others. 218. What quantity of lime and sulphur?—We use lewt. of sulphur and 601b. of lime to 400 gallons of water. 219. Mr. Lance.) Do you attribute the whole cause of your still having infected sheep to the fact that wild sheep come into your country from the Crown lands ?—Yes. 220. Now, can you give the Committee any idea of the steps that should be taken by the Inspectors or the Crown to keep off these sheep ? —I think the Crown ought to help private individuals to kill wild sheep. 221. Would fencing be possible? —You could not prevent the fences being broken down; the snow will break them down. 222. One witness, you are aware, recommends fencing ?—Fencing will help to muster in the summer, but in the winter time it is no use to us. 223. Hon. Mr. Waterhouse.) Are you aware that scabby sheep running on unoccupied ground will either die of cleanse themselves within twelve months?— That is not my experience. 224. Do you mean that there are no stragglers ?—My experience is that, provided the wild sheep were killed off, the country might be cleaned in twelve months, provided also the neighbours would keep their sheep strictly within fences. 225. Mr. Buchanan.) How many sheepowners have a frontage that is surrounded or bounded by this block of Crown lands which you say swarms with scabby sheep ?—Three, Messrs. Ingles, Beese, and Collins. 226. That is a centre. If each of these three gentlemen had an area of land fenced in for aheep-paddocks, proof against sheep not infected (you are aware that some owners have been compelled to reduce their flocks; Mr. Moore, for instance, was compelled to reduce his flock in order to clean his sheep); if they were put in several paddocks; and if, in the meantime, the whole of the Crown and leased lands were scoured and the sheep killed ; if the sheep kept in these several paddocks were then turned out, do you think that in all probability you would see the end of scab in a single season ?—I doubt it; but by fencing in all the country that could be fenced, and keeping the sheep within those fences, and killing all the sheep on the outside country, the district might be cleared in twelve months. 227. Are you free in your own case as regards fencing to enable you to fence ? —Yes, quite. My portion is clean which is fenced in; it is the portion that adjoins the Crown lands that has scab. 228. You are aware that Mr. Moore had to boil down 50,000 sheep in order to clean his flocks, and that Mr. Bullen was unable to clean his flock?— Yes, I believe so. He might have done so without, but I believe Mr. Moore would not employ sufficient shepherds. 229. Do you not think that a similar course would be capable of producing a similar result in the Kaikouras ?—There is no difficulty if the sheep are kept within fences. 230. The same arrangement will hold in a country district?—l have known several gentlemen who cleaned their flock and got them infected again by wild sheep from unoccupied Crown lands getting through fences. 231. Did not the sheep on these Crown lands come from the runholders themselves?—ln many cases I believe so. Mr. W. K. Chambees, examined. 232. Hon. the Chairman.] You are a runholder in the Poverty Bay District?— Yes. 233. I understand you wish to bring before the Committee some matters in connection with the working of the Sheep- Act. In your district the sheep are clean; -that is, your district is not infected ?—lt is clean at present. 234. You have no sheep in the district actually scabby? —None whatever. 235. Has it been*- clean for some time ?—Yes, for more than two years. We have a slight grievance up there in being compelled to dip sheep shipped to Auckland; but I am informed that that has, within the last few days, been attended to. Sheep arriving in Auckland, although coining from a clean district, had to be dipped within ten days; but I have received a telegram from the 3—l. 5.