I.—ll.

who do pay know who are those parents who do not pay ?—Not always, because it is a delicate matter. It is left to the teacher or parish priest. They may see that a man and his family are hard up, and they let the children come free. 42. Do you ever refuse children on account of parents not paying?—Not to my knowledge; never. I would not allow it. 43. How many boys have you here at school ? —240. 44. Do you inspect that school yourself ?—Yes; and also invite other gentlemen to attend the examinations. 45. Are you satisfied with the standard the boys reach?—Yes; they reach a fair standard, as far as I can judge. They have been very fair at each examination at the primary schools. At the high schools our boys compete very fairly for the Civil Service and for commercial offices. 46. Hon. Mr. Dick.] You say you have 4,563 children attending your schools?—Yes. 47. Are you aware of the number there should be of school-age?—l could not exactly tell. As a guess, I should say between five and six thousand. 48. Would that be according to the ordinary proportion of children of school-age to population ? ■ —I have not considered the matter sufficiently to say. 49. Are these 4,563 all Eoman Catholics?—The vast majority. There are some few exceptions. 50. At the Convent School, for instance ?—There may be a few exceptions, but only a few. 51. What about the other children? Are they uneducated?—ln some places we have not been able to establish Catholic schools. In thinly-populated districts we have not had the funds. There, of course, our children have to go to the public schools. We have to tolerate it, making the best of a bad bargain. 52. Then, you have a number of children attending the public schools?—They must, because there is no other school; but always against their will. We have to give them religious instruction as best we can, although in a very lame manner we find practically. 53. Then, would not that alter the amount you would be entitled to as you show?—Not by very much. I have always been below the mark in those estimates. 54. Have you any Eoman Catholic teachers in the public schools ?—We have some. 55. And Inspectors of Schools ?—Not in my diocese, I think. I believe there is one in Auckland, Mr. Sullivan. 56. And there are teachers in Auckland too ?—I suppose so. 57. In Westland? —I know there are some Catholic teachers in the public schools, but I do not know where. 58. Where there are those teachers, are there not likely to be Catholic scholars too ?—There may be, but not whore there are Catholic schools in the same place. 59. Is there any Catholic school in Auckland ?—I know there are several; but Ido not know much about Auckland, and cannot speak of them in detail. 60. Well, the teachers you have, are they engaged entirely to teach?—l think so, to the best of my recollection. 61. Do not the sisters in convents do other work besides?—No; I think not. There are special ones engaged solely in teaching. If they have other occupations, it would be only merely their devotions. Their business is to teach. Ido not speak of lay sisters; all the teaching sisters devote themselves to that. 62. There have been a considerable number of petitions this year from Catholics ; do you know whether any effort was made to get up those petitions?—No effort, except the simple fact that it was made known to the Catholics that it would be a very good thing to have petitions; and they were invited through the public Press to sign. 63. They were encouraged to petition? —The Catholics in general were always encouraged to take legitimate means to redress their grievance, and they knew that petitions were one of those means. 64. You calculate that there are 70,000 Catholics in New Zealand?—l think you will find they are quite that from the statistics. 65. And the petitioners number 7,223 ?—Yes ; there are no children's or females' signatures to the petitions from my diocese. I was asked in conversation, and I said it was advisable that no women or boys under a certain age should sign. 66. Mr. Barron.] Your petition prays that you may be placed on an equality with other colonists ?—Yes. 67. You are aware that the system offered under the State schools is offered equally to all colonists ?—lt depends upon in what sense you take the word equal. 68. Our State school system is open to be availed of by every person in the colony?— Physically that is so; but morally not. 69. Mr. Dick.] You do go in where there are no other schools?—Yes; we cannot help that. We always tell the people that it is only in case of necessity they are allowed to send their children there, because we do not admit they should be exposed to the danger to be met there. Of course, if there is an infidel teacher, his influence cannot be overcome. It permeates their very life. 70. You think religious training more important than general knowledge ?—lt depends upon the sense in which you take it. If you look to the last end of man it is certainly more important. It is even more important in this world. It is better that a man should be honest and moral, than that he should know a cSrtaiu amount of arithmetic. 71. Mr. Barron.] You admit that complete unity is quite impossible?—Yes; that is quite Utopian. 72. So, by being placed on an equality, you mean with a majority of your fellow-colonists?—l mean in matters of religion we should have full religious freedom; upon that ground we should have our children taught in our own schools; and, generally, that we should be compensated for the sacrifice we make.

10