G.—2,

9

Tulioro made a few remarks of no significance whatever. Tawhiti asked a question with reference to the order of procedure. Te Ngakau : You all spoke under one head yesterday. There is only one question—"Who severed us? Major Kemp said: There is such a long pause that I stand up. I stand up because I did not speak fully yesterday. I speak on behalf of one of tny tribe, the Ngatikahungungu, who came from the head of the fish. During t':ie time when the Waitara matter was being agitated I wrote a letter disapproving of certain actions there ;it was a request that the Waiters should be investigated. I then followed up to the meeting at Peria. Karnitiana was there. I asked you to allow the Waitara to be investigated. I was replied to, " I won't have a man of no rank to speak to me." That ended matters. I speak on behalf of the people who showed me kindness in those days. Ngatikahungungu came to Pukawa, on the Taupo Lake. From that day Ngatikahungungu were severed, and they have been severed ever since. I now speak on behalf of Whanganui. I came to Auckland when all the Ngapuhi chiefs were assembled there. 1 then spoke. The fighting then stopped, and it has ceased ever since. I was a young man in those days. Sir George Grey knew me as a young man. I never moved in any other direction until this day. Wahanui, what you have said is correct, that lam a naughty boy ; but I have been a post at all times at the mouth of the AVanganui. It is right that your thoughts should be delayed, for you, Waikato, are a big tribe, and have a number of great chiefs. During this day that I speak lam with Sir George Grey. I will not refer to what was said before, and I will not say who was the cause of trouble, or who made us fight. If you had gone to Waitara you could have found fault with Sir George Grey there. We should give up the present childish talk. "We are hereto hear what you, oh, "Waikato ! and Sir George Grey, have to say. Beioi said : Look this way all of you. (Song.) I hastened to this work to plant a tree, that it might grow luxuriantly; that was followed up at Hikurangi. The tree of peace was planted at Hikurangi. I then went to Waitara. 1 followed the work up there ; and I still adhere to what was said at Waitara. Who made it of any effect ?—not me, but Sir George Grey. At Waitara our hands were loosened from one another's heads. Why not speak out your words ? The words at Hikurangi have been destroyed on the road. The words at Waitara were severed at Waingongoro, —but who is the cause ? Am I the cause that we have come to this day and to these words. I speak now to Sir George Grey : Speak, how were the words at Hikurangi brought to an end ? Tell us why the words at Hikurangi have been destroyed and havo not been allowed to mature ? Tell us the reason why we have come to talk like this to-day. I flew to the word that the tree of peace should be planted, and how is it that it has been split ? Tumutumu : What you, Major Kemp, have said is correct. No one can say how Sir George Grey is wrong. There is no man who can investigate Sir George Grey's wrongness. What I have to say is, let all of you follow Sir George Grey. Follow him, and get some nourishing food and money. There is no other treasure for you beyond that. If you come here you will receive nothing from us. You cannot overthrow the Government. I say, cleave to your father (Sir George Grey.) Cleave to him ; that is your course. Timoti (Earawa) : I agree with what has been said, that Ngapuhi was the cause of the first war with the Europeans. I also agree that the Treaty of Waitangi was mine, and that I was the cause of the war. That fighting of mine took place about thirty-five years ago. I think there is no reason why any fighting should be brought up and discussed here. I am positive that all the Europeans approved of how we carried out the war. When one of my tribes fought, they made peace afterwards. It was not left as a matter of ill-feeling afterwards between the Europeans and the Maoris. From that day until now that peace has not been disturbed. My reply to what Tawhiao has said, that his kingship reached to the North Cape, is that I will not agree to it. I will not have the power of the king reach to the North Cape. The Government and myself have been good friends ever since the war. I will not allow my lands in the North to be governed by a person here. No ; I will control my own district. I will make laws for them myself in conjunction with the Government. Let the King of Waikato control the Waikatos, for they elected him as their king. I stand on the side of the Government. Kerei Manganui spoke of the war in the North as a domestic quarrel. They were now with Sir George Grey. Te Ngakau : It was not through us that Waitara was not investigated. It was through Sir George Grey and Governor Browne. That is my reply to you, Major Kemp. Waikato was not the cause of destroying the Treaty of Waitangi. It was you who destroyed it, and you made peace. This is your own work. There have been five fightings before it came to me. For this reason I ask what are my faults ? Hone Mold Taiohai (Ngapuhi) : I follow up what Wahanui has said, commencing from the Treaty of Waitangi. The Treaty was commenced at Waitangi, and was taken right round the Island. The war was commenced by Ngapuhi, but peace was made, and it did not spread. Peace was also made after the war with Eauparaha. After that, war commenced at Waikato, right in the middle of the land. Let your war be terminated in the same way as the war with the Ngapuhi. The wars in the North and South have all been brought to a close by peace. This is the only thing that remains for you. Tamahana (William Thompson) was asked, and came under the Europeans, who directed him. You put yourselves under them, and afterwards you set up a King. Then your advisers took the sword to decapitate you ; but now the day has come when we should look face to face. There are Europeans amongst you now who are still sharpening the razor to cut your throats. Those are the Europeans who wish to overthrow Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan. In the days of Sir Donald McLean he took a bag of gold and scattered it broadcast. The name of it was a deposit on land. The fowls collected to eat that grain, and the Maori people hastened to gather up the money; but now these deposits are at an end. Who has stopped this scattering of money ? I praise Sir George Grey ; I lift up this Government now. 2—G. 2.