1.—15

6

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Fbiday, 28th Septembeb, 1877. Dr. Giles examined. 1. The Chairman."] I believe you are the Under Secretary for Crown Lands ?—Tes. 2. Have any land-purchase transactions in the Waitoa District come under your notice ?—No; only incidentally. On a question being put in the House, I inquired, thinking it had something to do with our office. I found it belonged to the Land Claims Eecords Department. 3. Have you any maps or information in your office connected with these transactions ?—No, we have not. I made inquiries about maps. I sent to different departments to see if there were any. I have a small tracing here. I inquired what conveyances to the Crown had been made between the Piako and Waitoa Bivers, and they are marked on the plan produced ; but there is no other information that I can find. 4. Can you tell the Committee where they are likely to get that information ? —I do not know. I cannot find out any maps showing the blocks in that district. 5. Do not the Crown grants pass through your department in any way ?—Tes. 6. Then, can you give us any information as to Crown grants issued for the Waitoa District ?— They are all probably Crown grants to Natives. 7. I should like if you could give us a list of the Crown grants that have been issued or applied for in this district. Perhaps you would send it up for the information of the Committee ? —1 shall Bend up a list of all granted or applied for. The Native Office would supply additional information, but as to actual Crown grants, we shall, of course, have a record of them. Mr. H. T. Clabke examined. 8. The Chairman.'] You are the Under Secretary for Native Affairs ? —Tes. 9. Do you know anything about any land transactions in the Waitoa District by the Government, or any private individual ? —ln the Piako-Waitoa District I do know something about transactions on the part of the Government, and of private individuals. 10. You have seen the order of reference ? —I have. 11. Can you give us any information that would enable the Committee to come to a decision ?— I know little personally. All the information I got is from the public documents, and what I have heard of the matter. 12. Son. Mr. Beynolds.] Who can give definite information?— The documents in the old Native Claims Office. 13. Who is the officer in charge of that department ? —Mr. Tannin. 14. The Chairman.] We want some information with regard to more recent purchases. Do you know the Te Puninga Block ? —No ; I do not know much about it. 15. Have you brought with you any maps of this Waitoa District ? —No ; I have not. 16. Have you got any maps showing the land which the Government were in negotiation about ? —No. There were purchases made by Captain Drummond Hay in the days of old. We have been endeavouring lately to get surveys made. We understand from Mr. Puckey at the Thames that no survey has been made. 17. Where will we get a general map of this district?— The only place I know is the Crown Lands Office. 18. We have just asked Dr. Giles, and he says he thought in your department ? —No; that is the only place I know. The Native Department has got no maps. 19. Then you do not know anything personally of this district? —No. 20. You know nothing, apparently, about the Government land transactions in it either?— I do not. 21. Hon. Mr. Beynolds.] Would Mr. Masters be able to supply the information ?—No ; he would not. lam positive there is no plan in existence of these old laud claims. The only person who could give any information on the subject is Mr. Mackay himself. Mr. James Mackay examined. 22. The Chairman.] What is your occupation ?—I am a land agent and commission agent. 23. And you are Land Purchase Commissioner for the Government ?—I hold no position under the Government. 24. What position do you hold then ?—I purchase for them on commission, but hold no appointment under the Colonial Government. 25. On what terms do you purchase ?—At 4d. per acre for all land I acquire for the Govern, ment.