VISIT OF PARLIAMENTARY PARTY TO PACIFIC ISLANDS, FEBRUARY-MARCH, 1920. MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AT MANGAIA, RAROTONGA, AITUTAKI, NIUE, AND WESTERN SAMOA.

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1920 Session I, A-05

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1920. NEW ZEALAND.

VISIT OF PARLIAMENTARY PARTY TO PACIFIC ISLANDS, FEBRUARY-MARCH, 1920. MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AT MANGAIA, RAROTONGA, AITUTAKI, NIUE, AND WESTERN SAMOA.

Laid on the Table of the House of Representatives by Leave.

ITINERARY.—S.S. "MOKOIA."

Mangaia, 25th February, 1920. MEETING WITH THE ISLAND COUNCIL. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. Duncan (Resident Agent); and members of the Island Council. Mr. Duncan, 'the Resident Agent, in welcoming the party, said that they saw the island at an unfortunate moment, as there had been a hurricane on the 22nd January. The salt spray which had been driven inland in great quantities had destroyed the leaves on the fruit-bearing trees. In response to an inquiry by the Minister, a member of the Island Council said that they had no complaints or grievances to lay before the party. The Resident Agent said he would like to draw attention to the want of shipping, which was such a great handicap to the island. At one time there was a monthly steamer service, but at the time of speaking there had been no ship for eight months. The " Flora," which had been on the island run, was too small, and every time she called it had been found necessary to shut out a certain amount of cargo which was offering. Now that the " Talunc " was on the run, however, he hoped that this difficulty would be overcome. He also wished to urge the completion of the proposed passage through the reef. About £1,600 had been spent in blasting a passage, and it had very nearly filled up again. He considered that the completion of this work was of the greatest importance to the prosperity of Mangaia. The chief exports of Mangaia were copra, bananas, oranges, and sometimes coffee. From March to October each year a regular supply of oranges could be kept up, probably amounting to three thousand cases per shipment. The oranges were of the very best quality, and grew from seedlings. They were not free from the fly, but before export were all inspected and properly fumigated. He was of the opinion also that the sugar-cane industry could be made a success in the island.

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(All times New Zealand time.) Left Time. Date. Distance. Steamingtime. Arrived. Time. Date. Stay Port. Wellington .. 5.47 p.m. Rarotonga .. 7.25 p.m. Mangaia .. .. 6.50 p.m. Rarotonga .. 6.25 p.m. Aitutaki .. .. 4.17 p.m. Niue .. .. 10.53 p.m. Pago Pago .. 10.20 p.m. Apia . . .. 0.35 a.m. Savaii .. .. 5.10 p.m. Apia .. .. 9.45 p.m. Vavau .. .. 4.20 p.m. Nukualofa, .. 5.11 p.m. Suva .. .. 6.40 p.m. Lautoka . . . . 4 p.m. Suva .. .. 1.30 a.m. Feb. 17 Feb. 24 Feb. 25 Feb. 27 Feb. 28 Mar. 2 Mar. 4 Mar. 11 Mar. 11 Mar. 11 Mar. 13 Mar. 1.5 Mar. 17 Mar. 20 Mar. 22 Miles. 1,800 110 110 145 585 270 80 50 50 350 200 420 152 152 1,150 6| days 10 hours 11J hours 13 hours 50 hours 32J hours 9 hours 6 hours 4 hours 33 hours 16J hours 35J hours 14 hours 14 hours 4J days Rarotonga Mangaia Rarotonga Aitutaki Niue Pago Pago Apia Savaii Apia Vavau Nukualofa Suva Lautoka Suva . . Auckland 2.35 p.m. 5.30 a.m. 6.20 a.m. 7.20 a.m. 6.30 p.m. 7.15 a.m. 7.30 a.m. 6.45 a.m. 9.5 p.m. 6.30 a.m. 8.50 a.m. 4.35 a.m. 8.35 a.m. 5.50 a.m. 7 a.m. Feb. 24 Feb. 25 Feb. 26 Feb. 28 Mar. 1 Mar. 4 Mar. 5 Mar. 11 Mar. 11 Mar. 13 Mar. 14 Mar. 17 Mar. 18 Mar. 21 Mar. 26 5 hours. 13 hours. 36 hours. 9 hours. 28| hours. 15 hours. 6 days. 10 J hours 40 mins. 10 hours. 32 hours. 13£ hours. 2f days. 19 hours.

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In reply to further questions the Resident Agent said that he thought the Government should get an auxiliary schooner to run between the islands of the Group. At the present time there were three schooners running which belonged to three separate individuals. The total cost of completing the passage through the reef would be £3,000, but even with the passage only canoes would be able to go in and out, and the schooners and ships would have to lie outside. He had no control over the prices paid by the trader to flic grower, and the Natives preferred that it should be so. The Native need not necessarily sell to the trader, but could consign on his own account if the price offered did not satisfy him. Many of them did consign on their own account to auctioneers in New Zealand. Mr. Hollanb asked what price per case was paid to the Natives, and the Natives replied that the first shipment last year brought 4s. per case on board the ship, and the second ss. per case on board the ship. The cost, of the cases was 2s. 6d. each. In reply to a further question they stated that about half the fruit went to waste each year on the island. The Resibent Agent stated, with respect to the water-supply on the island, that all drinkingwater was collected in concrete tanks. There was a running stream in the centre of the island, but owing to the Natives using this stream for washing clothes and bathing it could not be used for drinking purposes. No wells had been sunk in the island owing to the practical impossibility of boring through the rock. In 1906 the population of the island was 8 whites and 1,523 Natives; in 1911, 5 whites and 1,466 Natives; and in 1916, 4 whites and 1,241 Natives. A member of the Council said that if the Administration would present the island with a motor-lorry to run their produce from the main landing-place to another which was four miles farther along, the Natives would clear the passage through the reef free of charge. He also said that if they were guaranteed a regular service they would be prepared to look after their plantations, which during the last five years had been allowed to go back. The Hon. Sir James Allen, in replying, said that it was quite plain that the main difficulty was shipping and the export of produce. The Union Steamship Company had been approached with a view to improving the service, and he understood that improvement had taken place. But the Government would be prepared to consider the granting of further assistance to the islanders, either by making arrangements with the Union Company or by means of a Government trading-schooner. The question had already been considered, and would be further considered on the return of the party to New Zealand. With regard to the passage through the reef, the Natives offered to remove the material if they were presented with a motor-lorry. That would be considered by the Government on his return. The Government was anxious to improve the landing-place at Mangaia. The Public Works Engineer, who was accompanying the party, would report on that matter. With regard to the water-supply, it was obvious to him. that a better supply should be secured, and a report would be made about that also. An officer of the Post and Telegraph Department, who was with the party, would report to the Government on the proposal to establish a wireless plant at Mangaia. The Department was at present investigating the wireless telephone by sending an expert to America and England, and if that were installed the people of Mangaia would be able to speak to Rarotonga and so keep in touch with the outside world. On behalf of himself and his fellow-members of Parliament Sir James thanked the people of Mangaia for their very cordial welcome, and expressed his own personal pleasure in again visiting the island.

Rarotonga, 26th February, 1920. MEETING WITH THE ISLAND COUNCIL—PRESENTATION OF PETITION. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. F. W. Platts (Resident Commissioner); Island Council —Pa Ariki, Karika Ariki, Makea Ariki, Tinomana Ariki, Goodman, Tuparetu, and Charles Cowan. The Council was introduced by Mr. W. J. Stevenson, the Acting-Commissioner, and Mr. Savage acted as interpreter. Mr. Stevenson said it was the wish of the Council to present a petition to the Hon. Sir James Allen and the members of the New Zealand Parliament, and this was accordingly read by the interpreter as follows: — [Translation.] Rarotonga, 18th February, 1920. To the Honourable Minister Sir James Allen and to all the Honourable Members of the New Zealand Parliament. Greetings to you all in the great love of God ! We salute and welcome you on this your visit to our land, Tumu-te-varovaro —that is, Rarotonga. Welcome, welcome, welcome ! Greetings to you all ! This is a petition by us, the chief Arikis, and the Mataiapos and Rangatiras, and the Council members, and the people—men, women, and children —that wo place before your presence. Our petition is this : Send Mr. Platts back to us as our Resident Commissioner, so he may live among us to lead, and guide, and look after us—to be our parent. The reason why we made this petition is because of his" goodness to us, the Maoris. He has never done us any wrong or ill ;on the contrary,'he has done us all the good he can. He is never weary to seek out and do all those things that are goodj for [all the islands, soj that that good may be a benefit for all the people ; he does not seek good for our side'only—no, but for every'person. During his period the wireless - ? was established, the schools for our children were established, the telephones were established, and very many other good things that are of real benefit to us. During his time of office schools were firmly established in each settlement. This work is a great and useful work that has been established on our island, and at Mauke, Mangaia, and AHutaki j and we heard he also established a school on Palmerston Island, and he has done all he can to aisiat the education of the children of the other islands of our Group. He also opened the door for our children to obtain greater knowledge in New Zealand. Some of our Boys have gone to learn at St. Stephen's Maori College at Auckland, and others have gone to learn trades at

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Wellington. All this learning and knowledge will be of immense benefit to us in the coming years. And all the school-teachers who came here were and are good men and women. There is also this : We told the Governor-General Liverpool about some matter that arose on our land ; it was this—it was about wanting to got a European member to sit in our Council. We told the Governor-General that wo would not agree to this idea, and the suggestion was not to bo approved of—never. Therefore we repeat the same to you so you may be clear : we will absolutely never consent to any European getting into our Council. We own all the land here, and the Europeans are strangers living on the land, working for their own benefit. They will not work for our benefit. If they were working for our good and benefit they would] not sell their goods to us at such crushing heavy prices as they do, nor would they be so obstinate in offering us such very low prices for our fruit and copra and other produce. This teaches us that they seek only for their own benefit. The European mind is too deep for us—we cannot follow or fathom it. There is also this : It is during Platts's time that we received good prices for the sale of our fruit and copra—nothing like this has ever been known during previous years —and that those good prices have followed into this year. The year 1919 was a wonderful year for money on this island ; the prices we received for our fruit and copra, 'tis beyond belief. We now sec that the Fruit Association we formed on the island is a prosperous and successful work. We earnestly desire this : that good and suitable steamers come here to take away our fruit to New Zealand. We pray that you will be strong, and help us all you can to develop our lands that they be made to produce food for all. This is our petition to you, the honourable Minister and the honourable members. Salutations ! (Signed) Pa Aiuki (and 109 others —representing the people of Takitumu). Tinomana Ariki (and 122 others). Karika Ariki (and 62 others). Makea Ariki (and 76 others). The Hon. Sir James Allen, in replying, thanked the Council for their warm words of welcome. He expressed his pleasure in knowing that the islanders were satisfied with Mr. Platts, the Resident Commissioner the Government had appointed. It was the desire of the Government in making such an appointment to send down an officer who, whilst sympathetic to the Natives, would at the same time do his duty by the Europeans as well. It was very gratifying to find that the islanders were satisfied with the development that had taken place lately, and also with the education, which it was hoped would be extended. With regard to trade matters, these would be discussed in the course of the following deputation, and an opportunity would also be afforded them to place their views before the Trade Commission that was accompanying the party. Advances for land-development would be a subject for the Credit Bank to deal with. This bank, it was hoped, would be established shortly. The question of European representation on the Island Council would be dealt with subsequently. Sir James then invited the members of the Council to bring forward any of the matters that they desired to mention. LOSS OF MANA. Moate, acting as spokesman for the Arikis, asked that the power, the mana of the Arikis and the Mataiapos should be returned to them. They did not know why their mana had been taken away from them. Originally the islanders had asked that their island should be joined with the British Empire, but they had heard that New Zealand asked that they should be included in her boundaries. That was how they became attached to New Zealand, and they believed New Zealand had taken away their mana. The people were previously under the Arikis, now they were free. Now the Arikis and Mataiapos commanded no power whatever : the people now said they were as good as the chiefs and took no notice of their authority. The Hon. Sir James Allen suggested this was because of the individualization of the landtitles. Moate : The cutting-up of the land had been the act of the Land Court Judge. The Arikis claimed the whole of the land, but the Judge said they had no power over the individual—they had no mana. That was how they had lost their power over the people, and now they were living without mana. That was how New Zealand had deprived them of their mana. Mr. J. A. Young, M.P. (Chairman, Native Lands Committee in the New Zealand Parliament), said that the custom in New 'Zealand in individualizing Native-land titles was to grant the chiefs larger blocks than the common people, as their rights were greater. If in the Cook Islands the Arikis were granted a larger share than the common people, would not that prove conclusively that their mana-was greater than that of the smaller people? Makea Ariki : No; I do not think that would suit me. Mr. Young: Would you indicate how your mana should be preserved? Makea : What we want is to leave the mana to the chiefs. Mr. Holland, M.P. : What is the explanation of the land-titles at the present time? Does not this trouble arise out of the fact that they had a feudal system in operation before the Land Court came, and what they want to restore is the feudal control of the land ? Hon. Sir James Allen : As far as I can gather, the reason why the mana has been lost is because of the individualization of the land-titles. Mr. Savage was asked to inquire from the Natives and explain to the meeting what the naturt of the native-land system was before the annexation of the islands. Mr. Savage: Previously the land was held by the people from the chiefs. The chiefs had absolute power over the land, and they could put a tenant off if he displeased them in any way. That was the mana they wanted to preserve. On the individualization of the titles under the Land Court each man was awarded his own share of the laud; all got their portion. That was the whole position : exactly the same as in New Zealand. Mr. Holland inquired whether the ownership was feudal or tribal. Makea : Formerly the Arikis had absolute power, the Mataiapos also, over the land—they owned the land. They apportioned it to the people to reside upon, and the tenants had to render

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certain services in return, including military service. The land belonged absolutely to the chiefs, they having obtained it by conquest. Tenants failing to render their obligations were dispossessed. Mr. Bitchener asked whether the chiefs considered they had the right to alienate the whole of the land to strangers. Makea : We would never do a thing like that. The Hon. Mr. Earnsiiaw asked what amount of land had been set aside for the Arikis, and if it was the same area as that apportioned to the common people. Mr. Savage replied that at present most of the Arikis were still living on the blocks. They would probably get the larger share. Power to Will Land. —One of the Mataiapos present complained that under the law as it stood no Native had power to will his land or any interest in any Native land. Suppose he had two sons, and one stayed at home and helped his father on the plantation, and the other left home and was of no assistance : under the law as it stood the property would descend equally to both of them. This did not seem right. Why could he not leave his property in the way he wished—to the one son who had remained with him ? Mr. Platts said this was an exceptional case, but the law could not be altered. If a Native had the power to will his lands he would not appreciate the power in his hands. In the opinion of the Native Land Court and of the Commissioners it would never do to give a Maori the power to will his land away. It was open to question what he might do, and it would greatly depend upon what influence he might be under at the time. In making this law the ancient Maori custom had been observed and retained. Native land descended to the next-of-kin, to the whole family. There was no law of primogeniture —each child got an equal share. It would be useless to go into the question, because it had already been thoroughly investigated and decided by competent authorities, and it was impossible to meet the apparently reasonable case that had been stated by the Mataiapos. The Hon. Mr. Mooru suggested that a Court of Appeal might be set up to meet such cases. Mr. Platts said that the whole object of the Cook Islands Act was to make the law simple and to avoid litigation as much as possible. There might be a Court of Appeal, but if so there would be endless litigation. Simplicity was the keynote of the island laws and ordinances, so that the iNative might know exactly where he stood. The Hon. Sir James Allen, in reply, said that the Parliament of New Zealand would be only too pleased to do what it could to maintain the mana of the Arikis and Mataiapos—that was to say, their control over the tribes. He did not see, however, that they could remedy what had already been done. In individualizing the land-titles the Native Land Court had been following exactly the same practice as that prevailing in New Zealand —namely, apportioning to each, individual the amount of land that belonged to him. The deputation had not suggested that the Land Court had been unfair in what it had clone. What they had objected to was the general principle, because it had destroyed their mana. He did not see how any alteration of the law could now take place; the work of the Land Court had now been completed in Rarotonga. One could only suggest that the memory of their past history and the influence they then had be kept alive amongst the chiefs and the people. DEPUTATION FROM RAROTONGA (NATIVE) FRUITGROWERS' ASSOCIATION. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. F. W. Platts (Resident Commissioner); Mr. Savage (Interpreter); committee of Rarotonga Fruitgrowers' Association; members of the Island Council. The deputation presented the following petitions :— Rarotonga, 17th February, 1920. To the Hon. Members of the New Zealand Parliament. Salutations to you all! Wo have heard that you are all our guardians, and we now as your wards give you greetings. Greetings to you all our guardians ! These are the words of your children to let you know the manner of our living on Tumu-tc-varovaro. Our forefathers have passed away, and they always exhorted us, saying, "Keep your hand to the spade "—meaning, plant plenty of food, keep on planting. That is all good, and we have profited by that part; but about the part relating to planting fruit-trees, that has not been so prosperous. We will explain: The European fruit-traders fixed the prices we should accept for our fruit per case of bananas at Is.' 6d. a ease, oranges Is. 6d. a case, and they sold us their tins of meat in 2 lb. tins in their stores at 3s. a tin, and so on with their other goods last year. They would not agree to our request to pay us from 25., 35., up to ss. per case for our fruit, and our patience became exhausted, and we neglected our planting for nearly ten yeafs past. On January, 1919, we searched out a scheme and joined together into an association, and we sent notiee'to all European' fruit-traders that we should sell our bananas and oranges at ss. per case, not less. They refused to pay this ; therefore we appealed to the Resident Commissioner to obtain some cases for us, and we pay for them. This assistance was given us, and we shipped ourselves, and wo got 55., 65., Bs., 10s. 155,. i'l, and £1 3s. pei- ease for the sale of our fruit in New Zealand. And for the Europeans to blame Mr. Platts, saying he taught us, the Maoris, to withhold our fruit and not sell to them, is absolutely untrue. It was solely our own idea. The Europeans complained that Platts traded cases for us. This is not true; we, the Rarotonga Fruit Association, asked Platts to gel cases and nails for us, for which we paid. We went to him, the Resident Commissioner, and stated our wishes, and begged for assistance and to convey our wishes to the New Zealand Government, so as they could help us in our fruit trade; also to try and establish an Island Hank. We have absolute faith in the Resident Commissioner, Mr. Platts. There is also another thing: wo arc exceedingly pleased with the Registrar, Mr. Savage, who acted as interpreter in all our interviews. Wo consider both these men good men, and we have full faith in Mr. Platts, the Resident Commissioner, and the Registrar, Mr. Savage. This is the voice of the children speaking to the parents. Salutations! The Rarotonga Fruiturowkks' Association Committee. (Signed) Tinomana (and 17 others).

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Rarotonga, 17th February, 1920 To the Hon. Minister Sir James Allen and to the Members of Parliament. Greetings to you all! We desire to extend to you a most cordial welcome on this your visit to our island Rarotonga. Salutations to you all ! We, the committee of the Rarotonga. Fruitgrowers' Association, ask you if our wishes have reached you that we expressed in 1919. Our requests were— 1. That we wanted Platts to remain here as our Resident Commissioner for some years to come, because we have experienced his goodness, and forbearance, and help in trying to put our fruit trade on a good footing, so us we get good prices. 2. We asked for good steamers to take our fruit to New Zealand lor disposal there. 3. To try and induce the Union Steamship Company to advise us fully when their steamers will arrive at Rarotonga for loading our fruit to New Zealand. 4. Not to have what is called " Hospital " fruit —let us know exactly what space is available. 5. An Island Bank for the Maoris : we want your assistance, if possible, in this direction. 6. That we may have a fair share of space on Union Steamship Company's boats allotted to us. 7. We earnestly oppose any European member being put into our Rarotonga Island Council. H. To try and grant us assistance in the draining of our lands that are liable to floods —to have the water carried off, so that those areas of land may now be put to use. (Signed) Tinomana (and. 17 others). A member of the deputation explained that they had heard something had been said against Mr. Platts having bought fruit-cases for them. That was a mistake. It was their own work : they merely went to him and asked him to get the cases for them. It was only afterwards they had heard of the complaint that the Commissioner had bought cases for them. This was not true : the committee were responsible for them. It had also been stated that they had been prompted in all they had done by the Commissioner. The idea was entirely their own. They simply went to him and told him what was in their mind. All the things that had been said about the Commissioner in this matter were untrue. W T ith regard to the fruit trade, the committee were going to retain the right themselves of fixing a price for the fruit. During past years there had been great losses. The main things were set out in the petition. The Hon. Sir James Allen said it had been stated that the fruitgrowers had been offered Is. 6d. a case for bananas and Is. 6d. for oranges by the traders in Rarotonga. Member of Deputation : That was for the last year : that was the net price without the case. Hon. Sir James Allen : You were prepared to sell for 25., 35., and ss. Member of Deputation ; Those were the prices we asked for when we formed the association. The prices quoted as having been obtained in New Zealand for their fruit were the net prices; they represented the price after paying all expenses of packing, transport, insurance, selling, &c.— the net profit. To Hon. Mr. Michel: The busy months for the fruit industry were April, May, June, and July. To Mr. Harris: The cases obtained through the Administration had cost 2s. 6d. each. The price charged by the traders was 2s. 6d., which was also the present price. Mr. Harris inquired whether the fruitgrowers were fully cognisant of the fact that they had to bear the risk of fruit going bad on the voyage. A member of the deputation said that since the association had been formed there had been no losses. Previously there had always been losses. To Mr. Holland: There had been very small shipments last year, and a great quantity of fruit had accordingly gone to waste. About three-fifths of the amount available had gone to waste. Mr. Isitt: Do the traders advance you money against the crops? If you interfere with them how are you going to get over the difficulty? Member of Deputation : If the traders give us fair prices we will sell to them and ship ourselves also. Mr. Luke : Would you be prepared to pool the season's output for the general good, such a pooling to be assisted by way of Government advances, thus ensuring a levelling-up of prices and a fair deal for the whole industry ? Deputation : That would be all right. To Mr. Powdrell: Generally speaking, it was considered it would be possible, with a regular service, to maintain an output of about four thousand cases of fruit per month. Mr. Witty asked whether, if they had cool stores, it would be possible to send out a regular supply of fruit, thus controlling the market, instead of causing an occasional glut and consequent deflation of prices, also preventing the spoiling of fruit in transport. The deputation agreed that that would be a very fine scheme. The Hon. Sir James Allen, in reply, said he was very pleased to meet the deputation, and was very gsateful to them for the kind words they had spoken with respect to Mr. Platts. He could not answer for all the members of Parliament with regard to the action of the Resident Commissioner, but as Minister of External Affairs lie endorsed the stand Mr. Platts had taken in assisting the Natives to find a market for their fruit. With regard to the shipping question, the Government of New Zealand had approached the Union Company both before and during the war, and had been in constant communication with them on the subject, with a view to seeing how far they could go in improving the steamer service to the islands to meet the fruit trade. So far as they could gather the Union Steamship Company were fully alive to the value of this trade, and were doing their best to meet its requirements. Special boats had been built for fruit-carrying, and he understood that one of the last boats built by the company had been especially designed for the carriage of bananas. All that the deputation had said with regard to shipping, storage, and transport of fruit would be represented to the Government, and the Government would do all it could to approach the Union Company to ensure the proper carriage of the produce of the islands.

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With regard to cold storage of fruit, the Minister stated that experiments had been made, but it had not yet been definitely decided that oranges would stand it. It was a question whether the cells of the fruit would not be so damaged by the cold storage as to render them unfit for sale purposes. The danger was that it was very easy to overheat the fruit. Further experiments were being conducted now, and, if they proved successful, consideration would be given to the question of erecting cool storage for this purpose on the island. He wanted, however, to be perfectly plain with the islauders. The New Zealand Government looked to them to assist themselves. They could not expect New Zealand to establish cool storage without the island itself bearing a fair share of the burden of the cost. With regard to the matters mentioned in the petition, every care would be taken to try and see if suitable notification of the arrival of the steamers could be arranged. Respecting an Island Bank, unsuccessful efforts had been made to get one of the New Zealand banking institutions to open a branch on the island. The Commissioner had now commenced to inaugurate a Credit Bank, and before many weeks were past it would be an established fact. The Government would assist the Commissioner as far as lay in its power in seeing that the Natives got their fair share of the space on the Union Company's steamers. The company had promised to give them the same space this season. As to the opposition to a European being put into the Island Council, this raised a somewhat difficult question, which the members of the Parliamentary Party were asked to study during their stay on the island. The Native population on Rarotonga was about three thousand, and the white population about one hundred and fifty. The whites were subject to a small amount of taxation, and the principle arose that was observed in New Zealand —namely, that those who paid taxation should have a certain amount of representation. The people of New Zealand would be very glad to know that some arrangement had been come to by which the whites received some kind of representation. The New Zealand Government knew that when the islands had been annexed provision had been made that Native local government should be sustained and maintained. We did not break our word, and had no intention of breaking it; but he did invite them to consider the position from the point of view of the white residents who were living among them. Should the day come when the Arikis, the Mataiapos, and the rest of the people were willing to include in their rolls the names of the whites it would be not a complete but a partial solution of the difficulty. He thought, too, the Arikis and the Mataiapos might consider the question of altering the system of nomination to the Council —that the three representatives of the tribes now nominated should be elected by the tribes. They might at the same time consider the question that lie had alluded to of including the names of the whites on the rolls, so that they might vote at these elections. He invited them to consider these suggestions, and to consult with the Resident Commissioner regarding them. As to drainage, the Administration would be very glad indeed to help them to drain their lands. With respect to trade matters generally, there were three Trade Commissioners with the Parliamentary Party who had come down especially to inquire into trade matters. The Minister invited the fruitgrowers to select one or more of their members to see the Commissioners, and put before them all the matters they wished so that they might be dealt with in the Commission's report. Mr. Isitt suggested the Minister might emphasize the fact that the Natives owed something to the Europeans. The Hon. Sir James Allen, continuing, said that a great deal had been done for the Natives by the advent of the European, and also by the taxpayer and the Government of New Zealand. New Zealand contributed about .£B,OOO annually towards the upkeep of the Cook Islands, and the Dominion could not be expected to do more than bear its fair share of the burden. We deserved some sympathy and consideration from the Natives themselves in this matter, but we wanted the sympathy to be sustained. We also desired the Natives to realize that we were trying to help them, and that there was something due to the New Zealand people and the New Zealand taxpayer in this respect. DEPUTATION FROM TRADERS OF RAROTONGA. Present: Hon.- Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. F. W. Platts (Resident Commissioner). Mr. H. Fisher, representing the Cook Islands Trading Company, with headquarters at Rarotonga, stated: We desire to place before j'ou the disabilities and hardships under which we have been suffering for some considerable time. They are very heavy. Our request is a simple one—the right to be heard in self-defence. We have been charged publicly. Gross accusations have been made against us and our integrity. We are looked upon by those who have seen the charges made against us as men of indifferent character. The firms here are reputable business firms. The three biggest firms, are New Zealand firms—registered in New Zealand. All we ask is that we be granted a fair inquiry, an opportunity to defend ourselves against these charges. If the Government of New Zealand grants our request we ask that the Commission of Inquiry be given full power to call for documents and take evidence on oath. It has been suggested that the Natives have not received fair prices for their produce. Responsible officials down here have told the Natives that they have not- received a fair price. The Resident Commissioner, at a Council meeting held in November, 1018, told the Natives that there was a " ring" on the island formed with the intention of keeping the price of copra down—that the Natives were not receiving a fair price. The same statements are repeated in the Commissioner's annual report: "During the past two years there have been repeated complaints by the Natives of the operations of combines.

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A combination of four or five traders has for a long time past been strong enough every season to fix the price the Natives must accept for their fruit." This statement, we claim, is not true. On the other hand, we claim that the Resident Commissioner influenced the Natives to ship their copra to Papeete, with the result that they suffered a very considerable loss. When His Excellency the Governor-General was here in June last year the Commissioner stated that the Natives had received back the same price for their copra that had been offered by the traders here, notwithstanding a falling market and certain troubles that had happened to the shipment in question. Hon. Sir James Allen : There is some explanation of that, is there not ? Mr. Fisher: The Commissioner's explanation was, " I am not a trader and do not understand such matters." Mr. Platts (Resident Commissioner) : I never dreamed of making such an explanation. Mr. Fisher : The Commissioner was closely questioned as to whether the Natives received back,here the same price for their copra, and he had to admit that he had not taken into account certain charges, which amounted to somewhere in the vicinity of £10 a ton. That shipment certainly met with very unfortunate happenings. My only reason for pointing this out is to show that the Commissioner told the Natives they were not getting a fair price for their produce, and assisted them and influenced them to ship their produce to Papeete, and they suffered a severe loss. Hon. Sir James Allen : That has been denied by the Natives themselves who have been here— that the Commissioner influenced them. Mr. Fisher : That is just our trouble, that statements are made. We are told by the Natives that statements are made and we are never allowed the opportunity of refuting those statements. Satisfactory explanations could be given. We have done nothing but urge on the Government of New Zealand to grant an inquiry, with the fullest powers. Since then the Commissioner has acted for a firm in New Zealand to purchase copra. The only difference in his offer was about 6 per cent. We were offering £25, and he was able to beat us by offering £26. But the fact that the firm in New Zealand would not be called upon to pay any salaries or cost of wireless messages, or probably cartage, storage, wharfage, and other charges that we would have to meet, or commission, more than offsets the difference in price. Anyhow, the Commissioner is not able to satisfy the Natives even that there was a difference in price. Even white people not well versed in business matters are only too ready to believe any charge of profiteering; and when the Natives down here are told by a person in. authority that the traders have combined to cheat them Mr. Platts : I think I ought to take exception to that. Hon. Sir James Allen : I cannot allow that statement to go without your being more specific. Mr. Fisher: The Resident Commissioner, at a Council meeting held on the Bth November, 1918, stated that the traders were making enormous profits out of copra, that there was a copra " ring " on the island, and that this " ring " was paying the Natives a very low price for their produce. The Commissioner further stated that if the Natives could send their copra to Tahiti, where there was an open market, they would get the best price for it. This statement was made by the Commissioner in answer to a protest made by members of the Island Council against the export duty of £1 per ton on copra and £4 per ton on shell, which has been brought into force by an Order in Council in New Zealand. That statement was made at the Council meeting. We are prepared to bring witnesses before a Commission to testify on oath to that statement. Hon. Sir James Allen: Supposing it were made, are you justified in saying what you did? Mr. Fisher : The inference is that they are not getting a fair price—that they are being cheated. The Resident Commissioner has not thought fit to make public the price realized here to the Natives for this 1 copra. He has taken no steps at all to correct the impression in the Native mind that they were not receiving a fair price. If the Commissioner is able to make a statement that they are not receiving a fair price, we certainly should be given an opportunity of proving that the price is a fair one. The Commissioner was up against certain misfortunes that happened to that particular shipment; we are up against misfortunes that happen all the time. For instance, the direct mail-steamer from here to Frisco has not lifted any copra since September. We cannot always get our copra away. It is often on hand twelve months. This is only one of the matters concerning which we feel we have a right to be heard in self-defence to justify ourselves or to refute charges made against us. Supposing the Natives did go to the Commissioner and make these statements : how does the Commissioner know they are true without making proper inquiries? If any of the members present have any desire to inspect our books or balance-sheets I am authorized by the managing director to submit them for inspection. Any information that you wish for we shall be only too pleased to give. You are quite at liberty to avail yourselves of the opportunity.of finding out whether enormous profits are being made or not. Another matter which affects us vitally is that orders for Government supplies have, since the present Resident Commissioner's advent to the island, been diverted to family connections of his. Our statements have been submitted to the Chamber of Commerce at Auckland and the Hardware Merchants' Association, and that association sent a very strongly worded telegram to Mr. Massey on the subject. Mr. Massey handed the question on to the Minister in Charge of the islands, Dr. Pomare, who replied regretting that he was unable to supply any information. The reply of the secretary of the association is as follows: "Referring my letter 13th re hardware for Rarotonga, Dr. Pomare's reply unsatisfactory. Commissioner's statement referred to was made publicly, and should either be substantiated or withdrawn. Members have no objection to placing small orders without calling tenders, but strong exception taken to report that tenders called when no such action was taken." The Resident Commissioner has stated publicly that with respect to any supplies over £25 tenders have been called. The association claim that they have never seen tenders or been asked to tender, and their only conclusion is, in the words of one of their leading men, that " the purchases of the Cook Islands Administration must be very limited,"

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Mr. Platts : So they are. Mr. Young, M.P. : Have you knowledge of tenders being called locally? Mr. Fisher: No. No tenders have been called locally, as far as I remember, for some considerable time. Mr. Young : By whom is that telegram to Mr. Massey signed 1 Mr. Fisher: By Mr. Warnock, public accountant, Auckland. Mr. Anderson, M.P. : To whom were the orders given ? Mr. Fisher: To E. W. Mills and Co., of Auckland, and Cruickshank, Miller, and Co., of Auckland, who were recently bought out by Mills. We ask for an inquiry because grave charges have been made against us. The Commissioner and a certain section of the Natives supporting him have made very serious charges against us. Surely they are entitled to an inquiry even if we are not. We say, let there be an inquiry and have these unpleasantnesses cleared up. Until recently there was no friction between the Natives and the traders. To the present day the most influential and enlightened Natives deal with the stores. If they had not received fair treatment they would not, I think, be doing that. A. F. Ambridge (manager for Jagger and Harvey), stated : In the Cook and other Islands Annual Report dated Ist July, 1019, the Resident Commissioner states: "A combination of four or five traders has for a long time past been strong enough every season to fix the price the Natives must accept for their fruit. . . . Hitherto, if the Natives objected, the traders had been able to reduce them to subjection by cutting off the supply of fruit-cases, copra-bags, &c, and they have always held a stronger card in a practical monopoly of steamer and schooner space." This statement would give the impression that all the fruit produced by the Natives was sold to the traders; that no fruit was consigned to New Zealand by the Natives, either directly on their own account or through the traders, and that all the fruit-cases available were in the hands of the traders, who, if the Natives refused to accept the price offered by them, retaliated by cutting off their supply of fruit-cases. The foregoing statements made by the Resident Commissioner are incorrect, for the following reasons:— 1. For many years past a number of Natives have been accustomed to obtain fruit-cases from New Zealand and ship their fruit to auctioneers there to be sold on their account. 2. A great many of the fruit-auctioneers in New Zealand have for many years shipped fruitcases to Natives here, and when the fruit is received in New Zealand it is sold at auction and the cost of the cases is then deducted from the proceeds. The balance is then remitted by postoffice money-order by the auctioneers to the Natives concerned. .'?. The traders when shipping fruit have always allowed their clients, both Natives and Europeans, the choice of either selling their fruit on the wharf in Rarotonga or consigning their fruit through them to any auctioneer whom they may select in New Zealand. A reference to their books will show that a large number of Natives have for many years elected to consign their fruit through the stores, and when the account sales are received from New Zealand the original is handed to the Native shipper, who either draws the cash, or, as in a great many instances when they have already obtained advances of cash and goods against the fruit, their accounts are credited with the amount of the account sales. It will thus be seen that the Natives have always been fully alive to current prices of fruit in New Zealand, and when they sell fruit to the traders here they do so for the reason that they consider the prices offered them warrant their selling locally, and not because they would otherwise be deprived of fruit-cases, as stated by the Resident Commissioner in his report. 4. With regard to the purchase of fruit in Rarotonga, we would point out that two of the biggest traders, rather than take the risk of shipping fruit to New Zealand, sell the whole of the fruit purchased by them on the wharf in Rarotonga to New Zealand merchants, who pay them the small commission of 6d. per case, and for this commission they have to make arrangements for the fruit, attend to the marking and shipment, employ men to tally same as delivered, and see the shipment through the Fruit Inspection Department, &c. In the face of this it is not reasonable to suppose that traders would endeavour to induce the Natives to sell at a low price to the advantage of the New Zealand merchants, as this would mean considerably less business for the traders than if the Natives received fair value for their fruit. The traders take this opportunity to give a flat denial to the statement of the Commissioner in his report that "The Natives complain that for a time last season, for example, the fruitgrowers had to accept Is. per case." The lowest price paid was 2s. per case for fruit only, which, with cost of case added, was 4s. 6d. on wharf. Had the Commissioner taken steps to verify his statement by asking the traders for information, which would have been willingly given, this Utterly incorrect statement would not have been published. He, however, elected to accept the unsubstantiated statement of some Natives, which, if true, would be a reflection on the stores. In explanation of the Resident Commissioner's statement that the traders offered 2s. 6d. for fruit and the Natives demanded ss. : In March, before any offer was made by the traders, the Natives decided that ss. per case was to be the minimum for fruit for that month. This price did not include cost of case, nails, cartage from bush to wharf, and other incidental expenses, which would have amounted to .'ss. 6d., making in all Bs. 6d. per case on wharf at Rarotonga; add freight to New Zealand, 35., and you have a total of lis. 6d. per case for the fruit landed on the wharf in New Zealand. To this must be added auctioneers' commission and other charges. Basing the value of fruit on past experience of other years, for this particular time of the year, this price was unwarranted. But to meet the Natives in the situation the traders freely offered the Natives cases in which to ship the fruit on consignment through them at the Natives' risk. The Natives then informed the traders that under the agreement which they had signed they were forbidden to ship on consignment through the traders, which practically amounted to a boycott on the stores,

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Hon. Sir James Allen : What agreement? With whom? Mr. Ambridge : Between the Native company that was formed at the instigation of the Commissioner. The Commissioner started it. We have a copy of the agreement. Hon. Sir James Allen : It is their articles of association, I suppose? Mr. Ambridge : Yes. The traders, who had ample supplies of cases on hand then, offered to sell cases to the Natives for cash, but as this was not forthcoming, and as the fruit would not have been shipped through them, there was no security as to the payment for the cases, so the matter fell through. We may state that the 2s. 6d. offered by the traders was for that particular boat only, as prices are regulated each month according to the demand in New Zealand. In conclusion we would point out that the traders have no objection to the Natives forming fruit companies and attending to their own business, but we do object most strongly to the Resident Commissioner using his unlimited powers to coerce the Natives to form fruit companies whose constitution is brought about practically with the object, of boycotting the stores. How does the Resident Commissioner reconcile his recent statement in the New Zealand Press as to the flourishing condition of the islands with the following: 1913—Bananas exported, 107,000 cases; 1919— bananas exported, 30,000 cases—a decrease of 77,000 cases? Is it not also a fact that the most prosperous and enlightened Native planters always do their business through the local trading firms ? Ts it not a fact that when in difficulties about getting supplies of cases to Mangaia the Resident Commissioner was loaned 2,000 fruit-cases? Also, has not the same firm supplied him with tomato-boxes for the Commissioner to ship his Native company's tomatoes in? Has the Resident Commissioner ever taken steps to explain the same when doing his utmost to trump up virulent charges against the traders? We hear it said that the traders in Rarotonga are exempt from all taxation. I should like to mention that we are all registered in New Zealand. Income-tax is paid in New Zealand, and the whole of the tax that applies in New Zealand the firms have to pay here. Also, we have to pay the local taxation. E. H. Mitchell (trader) stated: A statement by the Resident Commissioner has recently been published in the New Zealand Press calculated to convince the people of New Zealand that the prosperity and productiveness of these islands to-day is greater than at any previous period. He bases his assertion upon the value of the imports and exports for eleven months of 1919, and estimates the total for the year at £235,000. He mentions that the best year before the war was 1913, with a total of a little over £220,000. The difference between £220,000 and £235,000 is very little—barely 7 per cent. Now, in the year 1913 the value of the imports only was £110,283, every single pound of which amount represented 20s. worth of goods. Now, assuming the Commissioner's estimate for the year 1919 to be correct, the value of the imports only for that period should amount to about £120,000, being less than 9 per cent, advance upon the 1913 total. But to obtain a correct comparative statement we have to consider the fact that values in 1919 were from 100 to 300 per cent, higher than in the former record year, and therefore, taking 1913 values as a basis, our imports during 1919, presuming the average increase in values to have been not more than 150 per cent., should have reached the sum of £400,000 to merely equal the imports of 1913. So that, instead of beating the previous record year we have lamentably retrograded. So far as exports are concerned the question of relative values has again to be taken into consideration. T have not at present details of the separate values of the various products exported during the years in question—fruit, copra, and pearl-shell —but the two former certainly realized record prices during 191.9. So had we exported the same quantities of these lines last year as in 1913 the total value of our exports should have shown an overwhelming increase over 1913. During 1914, which was by no means a record year, we exported 166,000 cases of fruit; in 1918, 126,000 cases; and in 1919 only 105,000 cases. This discloses a most serious position. Another point that we must not lose sight of is that during 1919 the spending-capacity of the population was largely augmented by considerable sums representing soldiers' pay, which should have no place in a comparative statement regarding a pre-war year. The Resident Commissioner also made a statement in New Zealand which gave a very distinct impression that there had practically been no great increase in value of business done with the United States of America. I quote the following statistics, which speak for themselves: Exports to America—l9l2, £4,978; 1913, £14,628; 1914, £7,495; 1915, £8,837; 1916, £17,621; 1917, £17,146; 1918, £34,344. Imports from America—l9l2, £5,623; 191.3, £9,846; 1914, £10,586; 1915, £5,073; 1916, £8,241; 1917, £11,092; 1918, £15,324. I submit that the Resident Commissioner has failed to realize most important and vital details, and that his optimistic statement was not justified. There is one other matter. I understand that it is not the intention of the Administration to re-lease to the Union Steamship Company the site of the present wharves and sheds, but to resume these when the lease expires in a few months. Hon. Sir" James Allen : There is no intention at present to alter the existing scheme. Mr. Mitchell :In that case I need not trouble you with particulars. But I will touch on one other matter. We have been taunted over and over again that in these islands we enjoy all the advantages of good government and that we contribute nothing in the way of revenue. I desire to give a few details which refer mainly to myself. I am both a planter and trader, and as such I pay 2d. per package on all produce" I export. On 250 sacks of coconuts and 300 cases of oranges this would amount of £4 lis. Bd. The New Zealand farmer, on the other hand, pays nothing in the way of an export duty. Then there is a special duty applying to the Cook Islands of 10 per cent, on cotton' piece-goods. That costs me for my family about £7 4s. There is also a special duty of Jd. per pound on sugar. As a trader lam charged the sum of £10 per annum for a store license. I also pay a motor-car tax of £1. In income-tax I pay here nothing at all, but I pay it in connection with certain investments in New Zealand. I pay here also a tax which I think is called a land-tax. I may say I do not object to paying any of these charges, but I wish to point out that the total comes to £24 18s. 2d. If I were in New Zealand I might

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pay £10 income-tax, also something on my leasehold property. I reckon that in New Zealand I would not pay more than £12 55., as against £24 18s. 2d. We are not objecting to these payments, but we wish it realized that we do pay. Yet we are granted absolutely nothing in the way of representation. We particularly want representation. We object to the tremendous powers that are vested in the Resident Commissioner. We think it would be to the advantage of the country if he were assisted not only by Native but by European advice. We want to be able to express our view. Here we are practically nobody. It has been stated that the Commissioner represents us, but he does not. We think differently from him on many matters. The Natives two years ago—all the Arikis, all the members of the Council —signed a petition asking Mr. Massey to grant representation to the Europeans; but after two years, after they had been argued with behind closed doors, they were induced to change their minds. W. G. Taylor (planter) stated : I am not interested in trading, but I must support the traders in what they have said regarding the price of fruit. From January last year until August I shipped rather over 2,000 cases, and my net return w r as ljd. per case more than the traders offered. I shipped direct. I received some account sales which netted me £1 os. 3d. per case here, but taking the average from January to August I received 4s. ljd. on the wharf in Rarotonga. On one occasion I had the misfortune to have 300 cases on the wharf here. We were called upon by the Union Company to guarantee to fill our space or pay for it. I put my friiit on the wharf. The steamer was held up in Tahiti, assisting a man-of-war. The result was that I lost 300 cases of fruit. We asked the Government to advise us whether we had any remedy for recovery —whether the French Government were entitled to pay or the New Zealand Government,. The answer we got from Dr. Pomare was that the Government could not advise us. That was one of the trips just after the starting of this new company, when the Natives were under a penalty of £5 if they broke away from the rule that they were not to sell under ss. In, dealing with the price of fruit you have to take into consideration all such losses as I have indicated. For the fruit I shipped last year I averaged in Auckland 9s. 6d. per case, gross, for bananas, and 10s. 6d. for oranges; in the southern market, 18s. Id. for oranges and 18s. 2d. for bananas. Yet when everything was paid I had the small sum of 4s. IJd. on the wharf at Rarotonga. In Auckland we are charged 10 per cent, commission; the Fiji people are charged 7£ per cent. And we are charged sd. per case wharfage and cartage by the Auckland fruit-brokers. The wharfage is something under Id., and, the buyer carts his own fruit. It is sold on the wharf there. In Christchurch. we get the fruit taken from the steamer to the auction-room for 7|d. per case. In Wellington the expenses, including freight and charges here, are 3s. 4d. a case. That is without commission, which is something like s|d., and I think they charge us Id. for taking delivery. All through the war period space has been very limited. The fruit-shippers here have been penalized for the benefit of the New 'Zealand 1 farmer. Voices : No, no. Mr. Taylor: They have been penalized, because the " Flora " had to take phosphates, which were regarded as more important than our fruit. Probably they were, but we were the sufferers. People could not get the space they wanted. There was I with a plantation employing twelve men, and all the space I could get was perhaps eighty cases. Two hundred cases was a big shipment. The result was that my employees dwindled down, and to-day I have only two. The largest number I have had is forty-six. I had to leave my fruit and let it rot. The result of there being no space available is that to-day there are no bananas in Rarotonga. The last six boats, I think, have taken something like eight thousand cases. The boat that went last night had about six hundred cases, and the vessel which left a few days ago had some seven hundred cases. In eight boats the total cargo taken was not a good cargo for one vessel. There is no labour in oranges, but bananas take labour. I cannot grow a case of bananas under 4s. 6d. At the beginning of 1919 the Commissioner started his fruit company and interested himself in getting space for the Natives. Hon. Sir James Allen : On what authority do you say " The Commissioner started his fruit company " ? Mr. Taylor :It is generally known here that he started the fruit company. He has admitted that the Natives appealed to him. Ido not blame him at all. lam a planter, and anything that Mr. Platts does for the benefit of the planters I naturally receive the benefit from. As to the Natives getting cases, any Native who has established himself with a firm can get cases and ship his fruit. The firms will ship it on consignment for him, or they will buy. I believe they did make a stipulation that one must consign all the year or buy all the year. But we were all in the same boat as far as space was concerned.: we had to take what space was given us. The statement that the Natives have been penalized by the traders is, I think, not true. Mr. Young : Where do the phosphates come from that have been taking up your space? Mr. Taylor: From Makatea, French Tahiti. For some considerable time there has been an agitation that Europeans should have some representation on the Island Council. In the past the Natives elected their own members —three of them. The Cook Islands Act of 1915 took that right away from them; members were nominated. Not so very long ago they decided at the Council, at a private meeting, that the time was ripe to. have two Europeans on the Council, that they should have more of their own members on the Council, aud that they should have some say in the expenditure of the money which they contribute to the revenue. This was brought forward by Mr. W. Browne at a meeting of the Council, the three points being embodied in one resolution. In the meantime the Commissioner had interviewed the Arikis —not the elected members of the Council. Hon. Sir James Allen: There are no elected members. Mr. Taylor : There were at that time. These three gentlemen were elected members. Hon. Sir James Allen; They, are nominated members, not elected.

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Mr. Taylor : Exactly. It was never made clear to them that they were nominated. These men were originally elected. They were renominated under the Cook Islands Act, but it is only the other day that the Act was translated. The members of the Council, if they do not agree with the Resident Commissioner, are kicked out. Two have been knocked out recently. Hon. Sir James Allen : Who nominates these members ? Mr. Taylor : Under the Cook Islands Act you can appoint twelve Chinamen to the Island Council. Mr. Platts : No Chinamen are admitted here. Mr. Taylor : These two men spoke up. They disagreed with the Commissioner on many points, and the result is that they are now out of the Council. Hon. Sir James Allen : I do not think it is wise to let this statement go—this statement that a Chinaman can be appointed to the Council. As I understand it, the only persons who can be nominated to the Island Council are Natives or half-castes. A white cannot be nominated just now. And the nomination is on the recommendation of the Arikis. They met their people and discussed with them who was to be nominated, and they sent the name in. Mr. Taylor : I think you will find that the Governor-General can appoint whoever he likes to the Council, whether Europeans, or Maoris, or half-castes. When the question of members being elected was raised the Arikis were asked, " Which of you are going to give up your seats for Europeans? " The Commissioner went to New Zealand about two years ago. At that time he was bad friends with everybody, Native and European. The Natives sent a petition to New Zealand asking to have him kept there. Mr. Mitchell has a photograph of the petition. Mr. Platts came back, and ever since that time there has been this feeling between Native and European. We are no good, according to the Commissioner. Mr. Platts : I have never said any such thing. Mr. Taylor : There have been letters written in the newspaper Press—one by Mr. Charles C. Smith. This appeared in the Evening Post, and in it Mr. Smith called the Europeans here beachcombers, dregs of humanity, half-kanakas, and sundry other names. He was employed by the Administration for six weeks, and I think he drew something like £38 by way of remuneration. I have here a document, something like twenty-nine years old, signed by Frederick J. Moss, who was then Resident Commissioner. It is the document in which Queen Victoria asked the Native people to hand their islands over. I have not been able to get it translated. In conclusion I can only emphasize that we all wish for a full and open inquiry, the evidence to be taken on oath. Mr. Russell (planter) stated: I understood you to say a little while ago, sir, that the .Natives here were hostile to having Europeans on their Council. I would ask you to go back to 1009, when the Council here passed a unanimous vote that there should be a European member on the Council. Hon. Sir James Allen : We have heard that, and we also have heard from the Arikis to-day that their present feeling is that they do not want any white man on the Council. Mr. Russell : The question should be investigated as to what sort of influence has been brought to bear on them, and by Whom, to change their opinion, because they have expressed this wish on no less than three occasions to my knowledge. Hon. Sir James Allen : We have only heard of one occasion. Mr. Russell : The first occasion was, I believe, in 1909. It is on record in the Cook Islands Report. Sir James Carroll, who was then Minister for the Islands, was in favour of it. Then, in 1918 the Arikis and members of the Council came to the same decision. Their wishes were again defeated not by the hostility of the Natives, but by some influence which was brought to bear on them by the Administrator. They came to this decision at a private meeting at which the Resident Commissioner was not present. A resolution embodying their wishes was drawn up at that meeting, and it was ultimately brought before the Council in the presence of the Commissioner. It was " turned down." Hon. Sir James Allen: By whom —by the Council ? Mr. Russell :By the Council. That also is a matter which should be investigated. Another point is that two members of our Council have lately been kicked out —informed that their services are no longer desired. I mean Mr. W. Browne and Te Ariki Maurangi. There is a very strongsuspicion that they have been relegated to the dust-heap because they were very strong supporters of a resolution for the reform of the Council. I do not think they have had a fair deal. It is a matter that is going to cause a lot of ill-feeling in the Native mind. Mr. W. P- Browne (planter) stated : 1 wish to bring up three matters which are of importance for the welfare of these islands—the mail-steamer service, the Island Council, and the fruit business. We have nothing to complain of regarding our fruit in the way of space, although we have been cut down several times. We cannot help it. Where the shoe pinches is between here and Frisco. When the mail-steamer gets here we want space for so-many hundred tons of coconuts, and we are informed that there is no space available. The steamer then goes to Tahiti and picks up several hundred tons. We are left out. I want to know why? The steamer is subsidized by the New Zealand Government, yet we get no benefit. Copra has been in the sheds on the wharf for about eighteen months and cannot be shipped to Frisco, yet the Government subsidizes these vessels. We would urge that in the next contract with the Union Company a stipulation be made that a certain amount of space should be kept for the Cook Islands between here and Frisco. Between here and New Zealand we are all right, in regard to the fruit, I may say that I am a planter of fifteen years' experience, and am one of the biggest planters on the island. I shipped last year something like eighteen hundred boxes of tomatoes from my own plantation, about seventeen hundred boxes of bananas, and four hundred boxes of oranges. I

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have been shipping on consignment and selling to the storekeepers here. Taking my average return for several years, I find there is no advantage in my shipping direct. I would do just as well by selling to the traders. In a report by the Resident Commissioner which appeared in the Otago Times, I believe it was stated that the traders do not supply any cases to the Natives. I say that is not a fact. So long as the Native deals fairly with the traders he can always get cases and can ship his fruit where he likes. It is true that the price of fruit lias gone up. This has been because of the influenza in Sydney last year, which prevented oranges being got across to New Zealand, and a shipping strike which prevented bananas being sent from Fiji. There was a shortage, and because of that shortage we got good prices—not through any act of the Resident Commissioner. With regard to the Council, when it was first started the members were elected by the people. I was one of the elected members, with, two others. That went on until the Act was passed by the New Zealand Parliament under which memhers have to be nominated. I was a nominated member from 1915. The danger is this : once you become a nominated member you cannot say too much in the Council room. I started to say something which did not quite accord with the view of the Resident Commissioner, or perhaps of the Native Arikis. It was something good : I never brought up anything bad. I brought a motion forward, with the consent of the Arikis at the meeting, that one or two white members should be on the Island Council. It was all agreed that I was to bring the motion forward, and the Arikis were to put their hands up and agree. After this was all arranged nicely I got my papers up, thinking everything was all right. In the meantime the Resident Commissioner called a private meeting of the Arikis. I was not present at this meeting and do not know what took place. But when I brought the motion forward the Resident Commissioner was the first to say "No; no European on the Council," and he was supported by the Arikis. There were a few other things I brought forward —nothing bad at all; but what was the result ? I got kicked out of the Council. You members of Parliament have been elected by the people. Why should we be nominated? Why should the Governor-General, or Resident Commissioner, or the Arikis have the say over the whole of the people? I know that a lot of my people do not agree, but they dare not say anything. They want to elect their own members 011 the Council. We want a good, strong Council that will have the support and respect of both Maoris and Europeans. What I propose is that the Island Council should consist of the Resident Commissioner, the five Arikis, six Native elected members, and two Europeans. One more point: We are paying a big price for flour, not through the act of the traders, but through the New Zealand Government or somebody responsible. We are now charged £2 17s. 6d. extra duty on flour imported from New Zealand. It is not right. Tinirau (native planter) stated : Under section 60 of the Cook Islands Act the Resident Commissioner has the right to nominate members for appointment to the Council. That law has been some time in force, but it is only lately that we who cannot read English have been able to read it. This year the Resident; Commissioner has, of his own power, nominated two new members to the Council. Hon. Sir James Allen : On what authority do you make that statement ? Tinirau: We had a wireless message from Wellington saying that two new members had been chosen. Previously every man had a right to vote for a member. Now one man can nominate a member. Is that a fair law? 1 recommend that that provision in the law be altered to allow of every man taking part in the election of members. Kainuku Ariki, a member of the Council, stated : I would like to reply to the remarks made by Tinirau. The members and Arikis did not tell Willie Browne to jump on a sinking ship —to alienate himself from them. We never asked him to get out; he went himself. Mr. W. P. Browne : Who did, then? I have my notice in my hand. [Document shown to members of party.] Hon. Sir James Allen: Te Ariki Maurangi wishes to speak. He is another member of the Council whose time was up and who has not been reappointed. Te Ariki Maurangi stated : With reference to the resolution that was brought by Willie Browne before the Council for the inclusion of some white members, what Willie Browne stated is quite true. We agreed to that. I was appointed by general vote of the settlement of Arorangi as member representing Arorangi on the Island Council, and now lam out. I was a pupil of the school and gained knowledge there. Therefore I did not see eye to eye in certain things, and perhaps that is why 1 was put out of the Council. What is the good of our being educated if we cannot try' to make use of our education in the Council? I, who am trying to do what I can for the benefit of the place, am put out and ignorant men are put in. Mr. F. W. Platts (Resident Commissioner) : Why Mr. Browne and Te Ariki Maurangi were put out of the Council I do not know. Their own people put them out. They had been in for, two periods, for five years. The time came for the renomination of all Councils in the Group, and the people of the island were asked, through their Arikis, to supply to the Government the names of the members they wished to be nominated. The Arikis, to my own knowledge, had meetings amongst their own people in the different settlements, and they sent in to the office a list of persons they wished to have nominated. There is a member of the old Council here to-day, Mr. Cowan. His people renominated him. Regarding the district of Avarua which Mr. Willie Browne represented, his people would not nominate him again, but nominated another. The people that Te Ariki Maurangi represented for many years did not nominate him again, but nominated another man whom I do not even know. These nominations were endorsed by the Administration here. Why Willie Browne's people did not nominate him Ido not know. That is for him to settle with them. And the same with Te Ariki. We interfere in no way with the election of Arikis or the nomination of members for the Council. In regard to the statement that Mr. Browne made about flour, that they were all called upon to pay a tax of £2 17s. (id., the

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position is this : When a bonus was granted by the New Zealand Government to the flour-millers, I understand the people of New Zealand got that flour £2 17s. 6d. per ton cheaper than they otherwise would. Our people wanted a similar concession. I wrote at once to the "Minister, who brought it before Cabinet. The Minister wrote back explaining that the inhabitants of the islands did not contribute anything towards the New Zealand revenue, and therefore the New Zealand Government could not extend this bonus system to the islands; the money came out of the Consolidated Fund of New Zealand. I want briefly to refer to a photograph that was produced here of a petition which, it was stated, was signed by all the Arikis and members of the Council. There was such a petition, and it was sent to Wellington. I was away at the time and saw it first in Wellington. When I came here the Arikis informed me that they had been asked to sign a document referring to a man named Estall, who was taking away one of the Native contingents. This man being a Tahitian, they objected to his being in charge. But they found they had not only signed a protest against Estall, but had signed a document that included also a request to the Minister to put in European members, and included also an attack on myself and some other matters in dispute. They said they had no knowledge that that was in the document put before them. They wrote to the Minister repudiating the whole thing, and when the Minister came here they sent a deputation to him to repudiate it. A precis note of the Arikis' statement is this: "In regard to the signing of the paper, all we know is that we did sign our names to a few words, and they were to request that Estall should not be allowed to go with our boys to New Zealand. Other words put in we know nothing about." Consistently, so far as I know, since I have been here, the Arikis have refused to accept the proposal to place Europeans on the Council. I have never known them take up any other attitude. This is the attitude which they expressed before the Governor-General and which they have expressed before you. Mr. Young : Where is the original document with the original signatures? Mr. Platts : I presume it is in Wellington, also the letters repudiating the whole document. I wish now to refer briefly to some other statements and charges—first, in regard to the copra transaction and why it failed. The Administration brought in a tax on copra. The traders immediately passed it on to the Native producers. The producers came to me with a sale-note showing the deduction. They complained that the Government was putting a tax on them. I explained that the tax was wanted for the ultimate good of the exporter. I sent a telegram to Tahiti and asked the price of copra there, and found it was very much higher than the price of copra here. When the Natives next complained to me I said, " You will get a very much better price if you send your copra to Tahiti," and they put it on board the "Flora." The "Flora" went to Tahiti. When she got there the French authorities discovered a plague-rat on board her. They refused permission to laud any of the cargo, and it was all taken back to Auckland. There it was at the time of the epidemic. There was trouble with the waterside workers, and eventually the copra found its way back to Tahiti. But before then the Armistice had been signed and the price of copra had a heavy fall. However, the copra was sold at Tahiti, and brought, as far as I remember, £16 10s. a ton. The Union Company then sent in a claim to the Natives for the freight from Rarotonga to Tahiti, Tahiti to Auckland, and Auckland back to Tahiti, and the transaction turned out a loss. It has also been said that at a meeting of the Council I stated there was a copra "ring" operating in this Group, and that the " ring " had made large profits. It is quite true I said that. I believe that to be the case. I made that statement after having carefully inquired into the position and after having sent round to the three firms engaged in the copra trade. As a result of my inquiries I came to the conclusion that they were in a combination. The price they were paying then was such that from the advices I received from other parts of the world as to the value of copra I came to the conclusion that they were making large profits, and I am satisfied they were. I did not say that this gentleman's firm was in the wrong. He apparently has fitted the cap on himself. Any firm that likes to fit the cap on can wear it. I repeat, there was a " ring " operating in the Group, and it was the duty of the Administration to break that " ring." It has broken it as far as Rarotonga is concerned. The price of copra advanced considerably owing to the action of the Government in introducing New Zealand buyers into this market. The "ring" may still operate in the outskirts of the Group. As long as I am here every effort will be made to break any combination of that sort which works to the detriment of the islands. One other matter was a personal attack—that I diverted orders to relatives. When I first came here I found that the practice was for any departmental head to send an order to any firm he liked for supplies for his Department. I stopped that, and insisted that all orders should go through the central office. I sent orders for timber and cement direct to the wholesale suppliers, and- I saved considerable sums of money by doing that. The orders for timber and cement still go to those people. Other orders were sent —orders for hardware, which were not very large. There was no rule to guide me at all in regard to orders. We have no rules such as a local body has—that with a £50 order you have to call for tenders. I made one rule as applied to myself —that with a new order of £25 or upwards I required prices. The firms that I thought could supply those goods I asked to quote prices. I adopted that in order to help the Administration and for my own guidance. I have tried to adhere to that rule as far as I possibly can. It is not always possible. I repudiate the suggestion that there has been the slightest preference by the Administration since I have been here. Orders were certainly sent to E. W. Mills and Co., but they were asked to compete with other firms. I admit that it was not notified in any papers that tenders were invited. They were not public tenders. I wrote to different firms and asked at what price they could supply corrugated iron. They sent in their price, and we picked out the lowest, or accepted none. In several instances we have rejected all offers because of their being too high. I appreciated the possibility of the traders saying something of this kind about myself, and I was very careful not to let Mills and Co. have anything like a preference, because I have a brother-in-law who is a member of that firm. It is nothing to him to get a £25 order from this

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Administration, and it is nothing to me. But I kept the orders down. 1 saw the possibility of such a charge being made, and surely enough it came. In order to prevent the suspicion of any preference at all, I decided, after that attack was made on me, to send all orders to headquarters in Wellington and let them send them anywhere they liked. Since that has been done a better proposal still has been made —that there should be in Wellington a central office for supplies for all New Zealand and all the Pacific islands in which New Zealand is interested; that central office to indent each year sufficient supplies for New Zealand's public offices and hospitals, and for island public works and hospitals. That, 1 presume, terminates the whole question. As to the rest, I. want to make one acknowledgment. When the Natives came to me and said they expected the help of the Government because they had offered their fruit at ss. per case and the traders demanded that it should be traded to them for 2s. 6d., and when they said, moreover, that they could not get cases and could not get space, I went to the traders and said, "Is it true that you will not supply these people with cases?" They said, "Yes, it is quite true." A deputation of the traders told me that. I said, "We expect you to supply them with cases, just as you sell them, say, meat." They said, "We will not supply them with cases." There was one exception: it was Mr. Ambridge. I saw him, and he said, " I will supply the Natives with cases." When the Governor-General was here I stated publicly in this hall that Mr. Ambridge's firm had expressed its willingness to supply the Natives with cases, and I was very grateful to him, and we had got quite a number of cases from him. So Mr. Ambridge is mistaken when he says he has never heard of any public acknowledgment. As to the rest of the charges and innuendoes, 1 pass them by :I am getting used to them now; they used to hurt me, but they do not now. I push straight onward to the mark —namely, the happiness and prosperity of the Natives of these islands. I care not a snap of the fingers for the innuendoes that 1 am capable of mean actions in asking meetings behind closed doors to stop Europeans from going on the Council, and so on. 1 pass them all by. If you' like to believe them, well, believe them. I say that the policy of the Administration is to stand for the Native when the interests of the Natives as a whole conflict with the interests of the traders or any other European body. I want to put it to you that the position of the Resident Commissioner here is not an easy one. When Mr. Seddon was here twenty years ago similar complaints were made to him regarding the then Resident Commissioner, Colonel Gudgeon—one of the best Commissioners, 1 suppose, that ever occupied the position. But they had the same tale against Colonel Gudgeon, and when Mr. Seddon had heard it he said, " The Resident Commissioner is here to stand between the white community and the Native islanders." That is the position I take up, and I cannot please both. I regret very much the attitude of the traders. I have explained to them that what I have done since I have been here has been done as a matter of duty; it is not done to injure them. I have no antipathy to the trader. I know his use. All I ask him to do is to come and trade here and be satisfied with the legitimate profit one way —by the sale of his goods to the Natives. I make no charge against the traders at all, and I have not gone out of my way at all to make charges against them in the Press—quite the contrary. 1 am assailed with letters in the Press. In my report 1 said what the complaints of the Natives were to me, and if I were to read the letters sent to me from the other islands it would strengthen the case immeasurably. There are complaints all the time from the outer islands at the treatment the Natives receive at the hands of traders. But I want the traders to understand that there is no personal feud on my part. I have a conception of my duty which 1 shall stick to, whatever any one may say or do, until the end of my term. I. trust that the traders will understand that there is no feud, with me, that if they come to me and I can do them a good turn I will do it willingly; but they must not think that anything I do is done for their detriment. Incidentally it may be to their detriment, but it is done for the good of the Native islanders who are placed in our charge. Mr. Luke : In your opinion, would the working-out of the policy of the New Zealand Government —that there should be full opportunity for the Native—be promoted if there were elected Councillors along with the Commissioner ? Mr. Platts : I have no objection at all to elected Councillors —none whatever. Mr. Luke : Do you think it would promote the best interests of all concerned 1 Mr. Platts : I am not sure that it would. The Natives are in tutelage. They are not yet ready for the free institutions of New Zealand. Mr. Harris : I should like to ask Mr. Browne whether this photograph that has been placed in our hands is a true copy of the petition written by him, and whether he and the other signatories, as far as he knows, understood its full purport. Mr. Browne : It is quite true. Mr. Harris : And it does include a request that Europeans should be allowed to sit on the Council 1 Mr. Browne : It does, and they knew what they were signing. Pa Ariki stated that the request was made to them and they never agreed to it; it was never finished. From the time of Colonel Gudgeon this matter had been brought up for them to consent to the inclusion of a European member, and they had never agreed to it. Mr. Isitt : How does Mr. Browne explain the statement that when he proposed this resolution there was an understanding between himself and the Arikis that they would support it? Mr. Browne : There was a meeting at Makea's palace. There are several gentlemen here who were at that meeting, and they agreed to everything—to a white member being on the Council. Pa Ariki : We signed our names to something else —not to this. Mr. Holland : When the document was presented to the Arikis for signature was it written in English or in Maori? Mr. Browne :In both. They did not sign the English copy, but the Native translation. Mr. Holland : Did they read it?

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Mr. Browne : They can read Native. Everybody was supposed to read it. Pa Ariki : What 1 read was something else: it was something else I thought 1 was signing. I deny signing my name to this paper. Mr. Platts : This is not Pa's signature at all. This was signed, by somebody else for Pa. Mr. Browne: If it is not Pa's signature, it was signed by Charlie Cowan, and she was present. I may explain that there was a lot of trouble on the island. It was thought that Mr. Platts was taking too much power into his own hands. As a result there was a general meeting, with Mr. Ayson as chairman. I was interpreter. 1 never had a word to say. The Arikis spoke : "If Mr. Platts is going, we do not want him here again." Hon. Sir James Allen : What Arikis? Mr. Browne : Pa and others. Mr. Platts : They said that if I was going to send Estall with those troops they were going to do away with me. Mr. Browne : Yes. And then they had a private meeting of their own—the whole —the Arikis, the island Councillors. The only outsiders were Tinirau and Tawi. No European was present. At that meeting they wanted certain people to draft out a petition for them. They said, " Make it as strong and hot as you can. Everything you have got against Mr. Platts put 'in that paper." They elected two others and myself to prepare the petition. They said, " You prepare the petition, and we will see if it is all right and then sign it." I had the work to do, and I brought the petition to Makea's yard. The whole of the Arikis were present. I put the paper in front of them. I read it, and they were all satisfied, and they put their signatures to it. Mr. Horn : You told us, Mr. Browne, that the Natives were angry, thinking that the Commissioner was sending a certain man with their troops—Estall—whom they did not wish to send, and they said in that event they would father wish to discharge the Commissioner than have him carry out that purpose ? Mr. Browne : Yes. Mr. Horn : On the strength of that special circumstance you were instructed to make things as hot as you could in that petition 1 Mr. Browne : Yes. Mr. Horn: Did you then, on the strength of their feeling in regard to the appointment of this man Estall, get them to sign a document which embodied other matters? Mr. Browne: At their request. Mr. Isitt : We had a statement made by the Native Fruit Association that the traders this year offered them Is. 6d. a case for their fruit. Is that correct ? Mr. Ambridge : Speaking for the traders, I can say that that is not correct. The lowest price offered was 2s. 6d. Mr. Platts :I do not think they made that statement in reference to this year. If they did, they did not intend it to apply to this year. Mr. MoCombs : I would like to ask Mr. Browne this : there are twelve signatures to this petition of which we have photographs. How many of the twelve are in the room now? Mr. Browne : Nine, 1 think. Tepuretu, a member of the Council, on being asked, said : The only thing we discussed at the meeting was about Estall. We did not know that other matters had been included in this petition afterwards. Willie Browne prepared the petition and brought it to the settlement. I was on the wharf, and it was put to me, " Here it is: sign your name." I said, " I will not sign it. Sign it yourself." I would not sign with my own hand. I refused to sign it. Hon. Sir James Allen : Is that your signature on the document? Tepuretu : I never signed that paper. No. Mr. Witty : Is it correct that you asked some one else to sign for you ? Tepuretu : No. Mr. Forbes : I would like to ask Mr. Platts what the duties of this Island Council are, and why the whites should not be represented on it? Mr. Platts : The duties of the Island Council are similar to the duties of a Borough Council in New Zealand, shorn of a great deal of the power of taxation. The Council makes ordinances in the nature of by-laws for the good government of the community. But it cannot interfere with the revenues. Mr. Forbes : Why should not whites be represented ? Mr. Platts : Principally because the Arikis object to white representation on the Council. That is the first block in the way. When that is overcome there arises the question of the disparity in the" relative populations. Thirdly, the experience throughout similar communities shows the disadvantage of trying to carry on things with a mixed body such as there would be if there'were Natives and whites on it, when the Natives are in a state of tutelage. Those are the three objections—first, that a promise was made when the islands were taken over by the Crown that their local self-government would be maintained for them, and until their consent is obtained every Minister has found it difficult to suggest any way out of that impasse. The second difficulty is how to allocate the representation when there is such a disparity as nine thousand Natives to one hundred and fifty Europeans. Mr. Forbes : They do it in India : there are whites on the Council there. Mr. Platts : India is a great deal further advanced than this place. Sections of the community in India are trained at the universities. Mr. Isitt : I am going back convinced that it would make ultimately for good if some method were devised for giving Europeans representation on the Council. Mr. MoCombs : Mr. Browne told us that of those whose names are appended to this petition nine are present. We have heard four who repudiate this document. I should like Mr. Browne

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or the others present to tell us whether they think this document is what they believed they were signing, and whether they now stand by it. Tinirau stated, in reply to questions by Sir James Allen : I saw the document, and understood that it referred both to Estall and to the representation. We got up this petition at the request of others as a result of meetings with, other Arikis. We drafted this —myself, Willie, Browne, Charlie Cowan, Tawi Napa, and Te Maurangi. After Willie Browne had typed it out I took it up to my place, and it was on my table that it was signed. I signed for my father, Makea. He told me to do so. The others signed there also. Mr. C. T. Cowan stated that he signed Pa's name, at her request, to something referring "to Install only. Tepuretu stated, in reply to a question, that he did not authorize any one to sign for him. Mr. Witty : Did Mr. Cowan know what he was signing when he signed for the lady? Mr. Cowan : When the paper was brought back we had arranged what we should sign, and it was some protest against Estall. The paper was brought back, and I signed without reading it. Tawi Napa, in reply to questions, said he signed the document and knew what he signed. It was about Estall and the white member on the Council. Te Maurangi said he signed the document knowing fully what it was. Mr. Anderson : I should like to know whether, when the New Zealand people asked the Rarotongans to come under the sway of New Zealand, the New Zealand Government promised in writing that they would maintain the old form of government and that the Arikis should have the nomination of the Council. Have you got that in writing, or is it simply a statement? If it is in writing and part of the agreement, then the New Zealand Government, to my mind, must carry it out. If, on the other hand, it is not in writing and there is only a supposition that it was made, there is no reason, why there should not be European representation. Have we that document ? Hon. Sir James Allen: That will, be answered presently. We had better clear up the question first regarding this document. I want Mr. Browne or somebody to tell me who posted it to Mr. Massey. Mr. Browne : I posted it. Hon. Sir James Allen : Did you see all the signatures signed to the document? Mr. Browne : I think I did. It is such a long time ago that I have a doubt. Any way, the petition was placed before them to read after I had read it through. Hon. Sir James Allen: With regard to this document, you must understand, gentlemen, that the evidence discloses to us that what appears to be Pa Ariki's signature on this paper is not Pa's signature, but was signed for her by somebody else. Nor is Makea's signature his. He is not here, but Mr. Savage says it is not his signature. Karika Ariki is here. She says she did not sign. I have a specimen of her signature. This on the document, though like hers in some respects, is obviously different in others, and I cannot believe it to be hers. Tepuretu is here. The signature on the paper is nothing like his. I notice that in one column are the names of those who are Arikis and Mataiapos, and over the top there is, in the Maori language, what means, I presume, " Signed by the Arikis and Mataiapos." On the other side, in English, are the words " Members of the Island Council," and the only three names under that heading are those of W. P. Browne, C. T. Cowan, and T. Maurangi. It is very curious that there is this separation. I do not know why it is made. Mr. Browne evidently sent this to Mr. Massey. I suppose Mr. Massey has read it. No doubt he has the translation. It has been repudiated by the Arikis and Mataiapos; it was immediately repudiated as soon as they knew of it. lam astonished that any document should have been presented to Mr. Massey, purporting to be signed by three or four Arikis, that does not bear their signature, without an explanation being given. But whatever may have been the opinion of the Arikis and M'ataiapos in 1918, and whether there could be any possibility of doubt as to their statements that they did not sign this but they signed another paper, I cannot see that it affects the question so far as we are concerned now to any great extent, because they have been here to-day, and they have all told us they are opposed to the representation of whites on the Island Council. I am not going to express any further opinion about the principle than J expressed this morning—that I should be very glad indeed if it were possible to arrange for a general roll of Europeans and Natives, and that they should have the right to elect three members to the Island Council, rather than that nomination should take place, as it now does,'on the recommendation of the Arikis, after consultation with their people. That is a matter which will have to be decided later. I want to say to the whites that I sympathize with them in their difficulties. I said this morning that we were not in favour of taxation without representation. But the)' will realize that there are difficulties with regard to representation in view of the fact that when we took over the islands we entered into an obligation with the Arikis, which obligation we are bound to fulfil, unless we can get the Arikis to release us from the obligation. I hinted this morning that I thought it possible that the Arikis, on consideration, might release us from the promise that was made to them many years ago when the islands were taken over. The Hon. Mr. McGowan, the then Minister in Charge, in 1907—in reply, I suppose, to a similar representation made then—stated that "he sympathized very deeply with the desire of the British residents to acquire some share in the Government, but was not aware that they suffered under any special disabilities. When the Cook Group was ceded to Great Britain, one of the conditions was that the then existing Parliament should be abolished and should be replaced by a Council of Arikis. It must be evident that the introduction into the Council of a European representative would materially affect the conditions laid down, at the time of the cession. For this and other reasons Mr. McGowan regretted that the Government was unable then to comply with the request of the petitioners." The Right Hon. Mr. Seddon, in speaking to the motion in the House of Representatives for annexation, said " the Natives had, and would have, a local

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system of self-government. New Zealand had an Agent there, and there need be no change whatever in this respect. They could be given, with slight modifications, their local Council, which they asked for in their petition." The understanding was clear. It was confirmed by the Act of 1915, which, while it altered the constitution of the Council, made no provision for European representation. That is the position as regards the understanding at the time. In the Act it is provided, I believe, that additional members of the Council —the Arikis are members try right of their rank— ma)' be either elected or nominated. The New Zealand Parliament therefore evidently contemplated that the nominative system might some day be replaced by the elective principle. We heard this morning from the Arikis thai they were very much troubled over their loss of mana. That loss of mana has taken place, I believe, very largely through the individualization of the land-titles. I presume they will lose still more mana if we take away from them the right of nomination of members of the Council. It is obvious to us New-Zealanders that there are many objections to the nominated system, and that it would perhaps be in the interests of the Arikis themselves if they would agree to the elective principle with regard to the three other representatives on the Council. Mr. Platts : I believe they would. Hon. Sir James Allen : If that cannot be done, what I am prepared to do and what Mr. Platts is prepared to accept is this : 1 am prepared to accept three selected whites, who shall be an advisory body, having the right of direct communication with the Commissioner. I do not say that that will be a satisfactory solution. It may only till the gap until we can get representation. 1 doubt very much whether the whites will be satisfied with being on the Native roll; but, at any rate, we shall remove the objection that the principle is not carried out of representation where there is taxation. lam not myself placing much faith in this document that we have had placed before us—the photographed petition—and I do not think it has been quite a piece of clean work. As to the other matters that were dealt with by the traders and others, I would remind you that we have our Trade Commissioners with us. These gentlemen have come to hear the details of your difficulties with regard to trade, and produce, and shipping. If you will select one, or two, or three of your members to go and see them and place the facts before them, they will listen to you gladly. We will not deal with the matter finally until we have had their report. Mr. Platts himself has dealt with most of the other questions. I think I said, with regard to the re-lease of the wharves to the Union Company, that no action is going to be taken by the Government; the lease to the company it is intended to continue. With respect, to your schools, you know that we have started an education sysiem here, and Inspector Bird is here to-day. He was with you in 1013. He will report as to the progress of your schools and the requirements of the future. All I wish to say to you whites is this: you realize the difficulties there are in administering these islands; you realize the difficult position of the Resident Commissioner. He has his duty to the Native population : to protect them is his chief duty, and the New Zealand Government will uphold him so long as he is justly and rightly conserving the rights of the Natives. He is also here to assist you as far as he can. May I hope that as a result of our visit and our very candid talk to-day there may be established a more friendly relationship between the whites and the Natives and the Commissioner. My judgment of Mr. Platts is that he is very earnest in his work and. keen to do what is right. We all make mistakes. Well, forgive mistakes, if there are mistakes, and trust to the future that Mr. Platts will carry out what he suggested to 3'ou —that he will be only too glad to help you in any way he can so long as that assistance does not interfere with his duty towards the Native population. We will at once set up the Advisory Board, if you think that is of any value. If it is set up I would ask that the members of the Board should not treat Mr. Platts as hostile to them, but should go to him with a friendly feeling and offer sound advice. If that advice is good and is not to the detriment of the Natives 1 am sure it will be listened to and acted upon, and the New Zealand Government will be advised by Mr. Platts whenever necessary. We shall discuss these things among ourselves when we get back; but may we go away with the assurance that you will shake hands and help one another to promote the prosperity of the islands and good fellowship between yourselves and the Native population? Then we shall feel that our visit has been of material benefit to our own country and to you. Mr. Fisher : You have asked a direct question, Sir James. May I reply by saying that we shall never cease to ask for a Commission of Inquiry to be appointed. Hon. Sir James Allen : You have the inquiry here. Mr. Fisher : We want an inquiry into the administration. Mr. Young r I wish to ask the Commissioner a question. Regarding the meetings which the Arikis have called among the people to make recommendations for the Council: what form did that consultation take? Did it take the form of meetings publicly called so that Mr. William Browne or any other gentleman could be there to take part? Mr. Platts : I really do not know. Mr. Young: You assured us that the public of these districts were consulted publicly? Mr. Platts : That is so. Mr. Young : What form of public meeting or consultation took place? Mr. Platts : All I know is that they had meetings in their settlements about it. Mr. Browne : There was no meeting in Avarua, and never has been one. Mr. Platts : What you say is contrary to what I say, and I have no personal knowledge. Mr. Young : In the course of your address, Mr. Platts, you assured us that you were friendly to the trader, and you wanted the trader to be satisfied with one profit only—namely, the profit he makes in selling goods to the people here. You objected to his making any profit in the matter of the purchase of goods from the Natives for sale elsewhere. These traders have invested capital in their businesses. Do you think it fair that the businesses should be confiscated and

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that they should get no profit for the services they may render to the Natives by the purchase of the Natives' produce and its sale elsewhere? Mr. Platts : They can buy as much fruit as they like. Mr. Young : Is it your policy to exercise the great powers which you have so as to absolutely destroy the trading rights and opportunities of the trader ? You have indicated that you wanted to destroy the trader as a trader in island produce? Mr. Platts : I have not indicated anything of the kind. Mr. Young : You said you wanted him to be satisfied with one profit only—the profit from the sale of goods to the Natives —and you objected to his making any profit by any other means? Mr. Platts : No, I did not say that. I object to your putting words into my mouth. You quite misconceive what I said ami what I mean. I have no such power as you think. I have no power to interfere with trade at all. I have not interfered with trade at all. The Natives came to me and asked for Government assistance. When I say I suggest to the traders that they should be satisfied with one profit, I mean that they should; but if they are not satisfied I have no power whatever to interfere with them in any way. The Natives say that if the traders will give them a fair price for their fruit they will sell them their fruit. I shall be very glad indeed to see them sell it to them. I take no part in the fixation of the price of food. I have never interfered in the disputes between the traders and the Natives. When the Natives came to me and said, "We want your interference to get cases for us," and I approached the traders, that is the only interference that has taken place. I have never said to the Natives, "Do not sell to the traders." I merely stay here, and if there is a conflict between the Natives and the traders as a body, I feel bound to help the Natives. Hon. Sir James Allen: May I say, on behalf of the Government, that the Government would not allow any such thing to prevail. Mr. Platts has certain rights and duties. The Government will not allow interference with proper trade. They will leave it an open thing to the white trader, and they will also permit the Native trader to trade if he can make arrangements to do so. As I understand it, they are trading now. It is an open field for trader and Native. Mr. Young (to Mr. Platts) : Do you object to the trader making a profit on the service he renders to the Natives? Mr. Platts : Certainly not. I would be only too glad to see Natives and traders pulling together, but where their interests as a body conflict and they appeal to me for assistance, I consider it my duty to give the assistance. Mr. Harris : If the Natives came to you, Mr. Platts, with a grievance and obviously they were in the wrong, would you still think it your duty to take the part of the Natives as against the Europeans? Mr. Platts : No, certainly not. Mr. Holland : I should like to say to all the different elements here that I for one want to get the viewpoint of every section, as far as we can get it in the very short time at our disposal. Ido not want to prolong the proceedings this afternoon. If any of the elements have any information to offer the members of the Labour party we will be pleased to have it. We arc desirous of bringing together all the conflicting elements in order that there may be harmony in the islands. Hon. Sir James Allen: I am glad to hear it. But we have been here in open meeting hearing evidence from all sides, and I do not think it advisable that evidence should be conveyed to individual members of Parliament which has not been produced to us. Mr. Holland : I had the distinct promise of the Prime Minister that no restriction whatever should be placed in the way of my getting information. Hon. Sir James Allen : None whatever will be. Mr. Holland : And I want to get it independently of official sources. Hon. Sir James Allen : 1 want everybody to get it.

Rarotonga, 27th February, 1920. FURTHER MEETING WITH ISLAND COUNCIL. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. F. W. Platts (Resident Commisioner); Arikis and Mataiapos. Paaro : We are very pleased to meet you again. There was something discussed between us yesterday and we have thought it over. The matter has been discussed well, and we now put it before you and ask you to be generous in considering it. [Letter written in Maori handed in. Translation by interpreter, Mr. Savage, follows.] Rarotonga, 26th February, 1920. To the Minister and the Members of Parliament. Greetings to you all. This is our mmd —the mind of the Arikis, and all the Mataiapos, and all the Rangatiras— which we disclose to you ; it is our decision to you the Minister and the members of Parliament. 1. About the Council member (Rarotonga): For the future let the mombers be elected. The present Maori members remain in office. We wish to say this here : Our previous members who held office failed us ; they never informed us what they did at the Council meetings, nor did they ever ask us to meet them to ascertain our mind or wishes. 2. About a European (white) member : We agree to one white member being elected, but he must be a fullblood white man—ho must not be a half-caste Maori; and the European community alone must elect him—one member only ; and ho shall sit to represent the whites only; he shall not have any mana (power, or say, or jurisdiction) over our Maori affairs.

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3. As the Europeans want to be level with us, they must therefore be level with us in regard to the law as we are —that is, in law, with regard to liquor and immorality. Absolutely no liquor to be sold to them, and they must bo fined for drinking liquor or for being drunk, and be fined for immoral living. 4. All laws that are mado in regard to our islands, we ask that they bo translated into the Maori language, and printed, because we cannot read and understand the English language. 5. In regard to the law about wills : We ask that this section be altered to read, " That we, the Maoris, may make a will in regard to our interest in our land in favour of our own children, but not to have the power to leave any of our land to strangers, and for the Land Court to sco that the will is just and equitable and that no child is left without land." That is from us tho Arikis and the Mataiapos and the Rangatiras. Arikis. Mataiapos, Rangatiras. Makea Ariki. Pharaoh. J. Tumu. Tinomana Ariki. Araiti. T. Putu. Pa Ariki. Mocr Maoate. Taio Tapetukura. Kainuku Ariki. Teeiao. W. Tongareva. Karika Ariki. G. Tamarua. Tairi te Rangi. Eteke Teava. Noarei'a. Enua Vakapora. Anautoa. Members of the Island Parau Tamaiva Council. Uirangi. TEPURETU MatAIAPO. Al'AI. 0. T. Cowan, Mataiapo. Manavaroa. Kainuku Ariki : There is something we wish to ask :it is about the law. What we want is that if laws are made we should be allowed to discuss them before they are put through. Why not let us have a look? That would meet us half-way. Hon. Sir James Allen : I want to say on behalf of myself and colleagues that they will consider it a duty to submit to you a translation of legislation which is proposed in the New Zealand Parliament dealing with your interests, and we will give you the opportunity, as far as it is possible to do so, of communicating with New Zealand and expressing your views. If this needs an alteration of the law we will have it altered next session. Mr. Anderson : A half-caste in Rarotonga is a Native under the law. What is a three-quarter caste ? Mr. Reed :It should be pointed out that the elected member must be a European. We must be careful that half-castes do not get on the European roll. Hon. Sir James Allen : 1 want the position defined now. They want the electorate to be purely European, just as they want their member to be pure European. Kainuku : Read what is written. The European member shall be a pure European. Hon. Sir James Allen: We will accept the document as it is. I will be glad to bring your representations before the Government for consideration on my return to New Zealand.

Aitutaki, 28th February, 1920. MEETING WITH ISLAND COUNCIL. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. W. S. Cooper (Resident Agent); members of the Island Council (eight in all). Mr. Cooper, in introducing the Island Council, said that Manurangi Ariki, who was the leading Ariki by virtue of being the oldest, would act as spokesman. Manurangi Ariki, in the first place, extended a welcome to the visitors, whose arrival had been totally unexpected. Island Nurse. —The first subject brought up was that of the maintenance of the island nurse. The Council considered that in this respect they should be placed on the same footing as Rarotonga. Mr. CoorEß explained that there had always been a little feeling over this matter. The people of Aitutaki were called upon to pay the sum of Bs. per adult head of the population per annum towards the cost of maintaining the nurse and meeting the cost of the dispensary. The total cost was .£250 per annum, of which Aitutaki was called upon to pay one-half. The nurse's salary was £200 per annum. The quarters in which she lived were rented. At Rarotonga the islanders received medical attention without any special charge at all. The people of Aitutaki asked for the same privilege, without payment. The matter had been represented to the Resident Commissioner v Mr. Platts, who had shown that the revenue received from Aitutaki was not sufficient to shoulder the whole weight of the cost. Mr. Cooper added that the Natives received attention and medicines free of charge other than the impost of Bs. per head that he had referred to. Horse-lax. —Manurangi asked, on behalf of the Council, that the horse-tax should be abolished. Aitutaki was the only island of the Cook Group where such a tax was imposed. The Council had originally imposed the tax itself, and now they wished to do away with it. Mr. Cooper explained that years ago there had been a local Native law forbidding the importation of horses, which were regarded as a danger to the safety of the food-supply. Later it was found that horses would be useful in connection with the plantations, and their importation was allowed on a permit being obtained and payment of a tax of £1 per head. This tax had caused a great deal of trouble, and Mr. Platts had suggested that it be reduced to 10s. per head, on the understanding that the horses should be used on roadwork. The tax was accordingly reduced. There were 120 horses on the island at the present time, and there had been issued permits for the importation of thirty more. For the most part the horses already on the island were of a very small, weedy kind. Mr. Cooper said that his personal opinion was that it would be bad policy to allow horses in without a check of some kind, but the Natives wanted all restric-

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tions removed. The horses were a constant source of trouble. The matter had been placed before the Resident Commissioner. Water-supply. —The Council requested that the island water-supply should be placed on a more satisfactory basis. Mr. Cooper said the question was really one of expenditure. It was receiving careful attention. The only really dependable supply on the island was the spring immediately behind the Courthouse where the meeting was being held. The estimate for making a reservoir was £1,300, and when the work was completed it would serve the immediate vicinity and the southern end of the island. The material was available, and the work would be gone 011 with as soon as possible. A second reservoir would also be erected at one of the other villages. There were several tanks which were out of repair—these would be attended to in due course; and there were two pumps which were to be repaired and made usable again as soon as the work could be put in hand. The Hon. Sir James Allen, in reply, ihanked the Council for their words of welcome, and extended greetings also to them from the members of the Parliamentary Party. With regard to the question of payment for the services of the nurse, the islanders must remember there was a difference between Aitutaki and Rarotonga. There were more people at the latter place, the revenue was larger, and they were therefore more able to meet the expenses for medical services. But if the Aitutakians received great benefit from having a nurse among them it was surely fair that they should bear some portion of the cost. The Government would examine into the matter and inquire whether the allocation was fair, and if it were not, then they would try and make some other provision. They should represent their case to the Commissioner, to be sent on to the Governor-General for consideration. At the same time he wished to make it perfectly clear that they could not carry on without taxation of some kind. New Zealand already contributed some £8,000 per year towards the cost of the Cook Islands Administration, and it was not desirable to increase this burden unless there were some very good reason for it. The position with regard to the horse-tax and the water-supply had been explained by Mr. Cooper. MEETING WITH THE TRADERS. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. W. S. Cooper (Resident Agent); Traders —Mr. John Low (manager for A. B. Donald), A. H. Browne, R. S. Shepherd (manager for C.1.T.A.), W. T. Hewett, Maka (manager for Jagger and Harvey). The Hon. Sir James Allen asked the deputation to represent to himself and the members of Parliament present any matters they wished. . Mr. Browne said it had been the custom of the Cook Islands Administration during the last twelve months to import fruit-cases into Aitutaki consigned to the Resident Agent for delivery to the Natives for shipping fruit of any kind to New Zealand. These cases were delivered by the Resident Agent to a certain number of people called a "committee." This committee had resolved themselves into a body corporate under the Act, and insisted, under penalty of a fine, on their cases being filled before those of the Europeans or any other Natives. These compulsorily filled cases were to be sent to only one agent in Auckland. At the same time the European traders had on the island a number of cases which they were quite willing to sell to the Natives and to ship anywhere they wanted. The Administration had set up a competition against the traders and imported its own cases. It affected the traders inasmuch as if they had known the Administration was going to import cases they would not have done so. Their own cases were of no use, for the Administration had seized the whole of the oranges of the island. As the importers of the island the traders filled the steamer on her inward voyage, but on her return journey the Native company got preference over the space available as against the traders. Mr. Low stated it had been said that the traders had not given the Natives a fair deal in the past in the fruit trade and in copra. During his nine years' experience on the island this had not been so. There were five traders on Aitutaki, and during the past nine years, at all events, such a thing as a combination had been unknown : their own competition prevented combination. It was a case of each trader for his own firm. The Natives had ten different options with regard to the disposal : they could either sell it to any of the five traders or consign and ship it themselves through any one of the traders. The cases, nails, and paper were provided at cost price of landing. The trader also advanced the cost of wharfage, loading, and other expenses. When the account of sales came back from New Zealand they were entered in the trader's books and then handed over to the Native shipper so that he might know exactly how he stood. If a bad market was met with the whole thing fell upon the shoulders of the traders, for it meant that they had a debit account against the Native in their stores. The copra and fruit trades were a gamble. The trader practically kept the Native alive during the time between the despatch, of the fruit and the receipt of the accounts of sale and payment. The traders hud thousands of pounds invested in the island; they earned their money there and spent their money there. The Native was paid upot cash for his fruit whether he was owing any money or not. If he was honest he paid his debts; if he was not he did not. From April to June he had never known of any of the traders making a penny on fruit, and yet the Administration backed the.se people up, and the traders were faced with a note that at the opening of the season oranges would be ss. per case. The traders used to buy them at Is. 6d. per case. Prices had gone up in all directions since the war, and yet this combination forced the prices up. Was it not to the advantage of the traders themselves to raise the prices as high as they could ? But what were they going to do if the Government put up false and misleading statements on the notice-board about the price of fruit and copra? Notice had been put up that copra was £25 per ton. What did that mean —f.0.b., or what? Last year the traders had paid £18 per ton for it on the scales. And it must be remembered that the

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loss in weight was anything from 10 per cent, to 20 per cent. There were the shipping-charges also to consider. And there was the .£1 per ton export duty, the revenue from which they did not see spent on their wharf. Legitimate competition was the finest thing in the world, but illegitimate competition by the Government who ought to support them was not fair. If they complained they were told the Administration was there to protect the Natives —if they did not like it they could get out: the Administration was not there to protect the Europeans, but the Natives pure and simple. The traders had imported 2,000 bundles of shooks for making cases, and then found that the Government had imported 1,500 bundles. Shooks cost 4s. 6d. per bundle. The Natives followed one another like sheep. They had got up a petition to form themselves into a company. Dozens of them on the island now said they did not know what they were signing. And yet this company dared to say they would fine those who did not sell to them. With regard to shipping-space, one of the Natives had asked for space, but on stating that he was shipping through A. B. Donald he was told he would get no space. When one found that the Native company got space surely a Native who grew his own fruit ought to be able to send his oranges through any of the traders and get the space he required. The traders did not mind fair competition, but disliked unfair competition. The Hon. Sir James Allen asked whether space had been allotted to the traders as well as to the Native company. Mr. Low replied, Yes, the traders had got their fair share of space, 475 eases; but what they complained about was that directly a Native applied for a share as a Native he was declined. He was told that if he was going to ship through A. B. Donald he would not get any space. The Hon. Sir James Allen asked whether Mr. Low has been asked to supply timber for the cases. Mr. Low said he had never refused a Native, but he had never been asked to supply the Native company. He would have been quite willing had he been asked. The Hon. Sir James Allen asked whether, before the timber to make cases arrived through the Administration, had the traders been asked to supply either timber or cases. Mr. Browne : No. Mr. Shepherd said he had been asked by the Administration and had said he would supply any one. Mr. Hewett said the Resident Agent had called the traders together and had asked them to supply cases, and it was understood they would supply them. He was not concerned himself, as he only got cases for his own use as a planter and had none for disposal. No written request had been made by the Administration. He had never been asked by any Native to let him have cases. Mr. Cooper (Resident Agent) said the trouble had begun in this way : At the opening of the season last year the Natives had come to him and told him that as the orange season was at hand they had approached the traders and asked what price they were prepared to offer. The traders replied, " is. per case." He had gone to each of the traders and asked them what the prices were likely to be for oranges that year and they had said it had all been fixed up. He had asked Mr. Low whether it was a, fact that the price suggested was Is. per case, and he had denied it emphatically. It was a case of taking the white man's word against the Natives. The next thing was that the Island Council wanted to pass an ordinance law compelling every one on the island who had fruit or produce to sell to sell it at a price not less than that fixed by themselves. He had advised the Council that such a law was not just or equitable, and that every man must have the right to accept whatever price he thought fit. The Island Council went away satisfied. He was next approached by a deputation of Natives, who wanted to know what could be done. He told them to go to the traders first. They went to the traders and asked ss. a case. This was declined. He then advised the Council that if there was any difficulty over the matter the respective settlements should form a committee whose business it would be to discuss the question with the traders. The committee then came to him and said they wanted ss. a case for the oranges. They told him they had not yet been to the Europeans. He suggested they should do so. They went away, and returning subsequently said the Europeans would not give the ss. The Commissioner thereupon suggested they should put the matter in writing and send the letter to the traders. This was done. The traders presented the letter to the Resident Agent and were very much annoyed about it. The committee then asked him for advice. They wanted to make a law fixing the price of oranges at ss. a case and fixing the price of other produce also. He informed them this could not be done, and said the only thing to do was to form an association. He also asked them to refer the matter to the Commissioner at Rarotonga. But time pressed, as the steamer was about due and the association had to be formed immediately. He suggested that those Natives who were prepared to accept ss. per case only should sign the agreement, and those not so-prepared should stand out: they could provide for a penalty for breach of agreement if they so desired. The agreement was duly circulated and signed. The traders thereupon challenged some of the signatures. Another agreement was accordingly prepared, and signed in the presence of the Resident Agent after being fully explained to each person who signed. The association then wrote to Rarotonga asking the Government to help them in their desire to ship their fruit themselves instead of through the traders. The Government sent the shooks which were consigned to the Resident Agent and supplied to the Natives. The question of space on the steamer had been settled practically on a population basis, and the best possible was done to suit everybody. About 50 per cent, of the adult population on the island had signed the agreement, and this meant that the association were entitled to half the space available. They were ultimately granted 1,440 cases out of 4,000. Mr. Hewett complained that Mr. Cooper had told him verbally that if any Native wished to Withdraw from the association he could do so on making application. Several had so applied but had been told they could only withdraw on payment of a penalty of £5.

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Mr. Cooper explained that there were two agreements. The first had been challenged as it was said that some of the names had been forged. Then it was that the question of withdrawal from the association arose. There was no penalty provided for withdrawal, and the agreement was not worth the paper it was written on. Then it was that he had told Mr. Hewett that any member could withdraw if he wished. The second agreement provided for withdrawal only on payment of the penalty mentioned by Mr. Hewett. Mr. Hewett had asked if he had advised the Natives with regard to the agreement. Of course he had :he was there to advise them. The Island Council. —Mr. Hewett said that previously the members of the Island Council had been elected; now they were nominated by the Resident Agent. If the Resident Agent wanted to pass a law and any member of the Council objected to it he appointed in his place another man who would pass it. Mr. Cooper replied that there had been only one vacancy on the Council for some time past, that caused by the death of John Patoki, sen. He had had nothing whatever to do with the new nomination. On the day of his arrival his advice had been asked as to how the vacancy should be filled, and he had called for nominations. No name had been put forward until the visit of Mr. Platts, the Resident Commissioner for the Islands. The late man's son was then nominated by written petition to Mr. Platts, and he was appointed by the Governor. Itoad-tax. —Mr. Hewett complained that although under the Island Ordinances provision was made whereby a man could pay a fine, called the road-tax, in preference to working on the roads as required by law, the Resident Agent had in several cases refused to accept the fine and thereby relieved the Native of his responsibility. Was this not so? Mr. Cooper replied that in some cases this was so. The law provided that each Native must render so-much service per annum on the making and improvement of roads on the island, with exemption from such work only on payment of a fine. There was at present much work on hand. The old system had been for the whole of the adult population to turn out for the work en masse, with the result that it was impossible to control and direct such a large body of workers at once. A new system had been introduced whereby the available workers were called out in bodies of twenty-five. The names were supplied by the Arikis and posted up in the church. Up to that stage there had been no trouble at all. On the following day one man came into the office and tendered the road-tax for himself and two others. The man's own tax was received, but at the same time the Resident Agent tried to persuade him that he ought to be ashamed of himself for not doing his share of the work. Subsequently the Ariki from this man's village came in and protested against this man having been granted exemption. As the result of Mr. Cooper's action she said everybody in the village wanted to pay the tax and be exempted from work. Who was going to make the roads? She said if he had refused to accept the tax in the first place the man would have gone back satisfied. The man was sent for, and he agreed to work on the road. Then two other men came along. They were told to wait until the Agent could see their Ariki. Later still another man came in to pay the road-tax, and he was told he had better bring the member of his Road Council with him. But instead of bringing the Councillor he returned with a letter from Mr. Hewett. Mr. Cooper told Mr. Hewett he had not definitely refused to accept the tax. Mr. Hewett became so abusive and insulting over the matter that the Agent refused to discuss the question further with him. Mr. Hewett did not trouble to mention at the time that he wanted the man to work for him on his land. Every man on the island was liable for work on the roads. The law as it stood provided for ten days' work each half-year or a fine of 8s. —that was 16s. for the whole year. The European traders were not expected to work; they had their business to attend to. Their employees were exempted on payment of the road-tax, as it was recognized that their services were required by the traders. In reply to Mr. Earnshaw, Mr. Low denied that the price of Is. per case had been offered by the traders last year. The lowest price offered was 25., and last year the prices paid had gone up to 55., 7s. 6d., and even Iss. per case. He pointed out, however, that owing to the fact that there was no regular steamer between December and April the traders did not have the faintest chance of knowing what prices were obtaining elsewhere. The law stated that the Resident Agent should not act in the capacity of agent for any one, yet he was having shooks, nails, and paper sent to him from Rarotonga. Mr. Cooper pointed out that he did not collect any money at all. He merely handed the shooks, ore, over to the company. He could not in any case be called an agent, because he got no pecuniary'benefit at all from the transaction. Mr. Isitt asked whether it was not a fact that the traders had agreed amongst themselves as to a certain fixed price. Mr. Low replied that there had never been any fixed agreement except on one occasion, and within half-an hour there was one man giving 3d. a case more than the price agreed upon. Last year the traders had opened with 2s. and the Natives asked for ss. He knew that the traders account of sales were 4s. and ss. a case ahead of what the Natives had obtained. The Native association had not yet received their accounts. In reply to a question by Mr. Luke, Mr. Low said that the traders never charged the Natives even 1 per cent, interest on their outlay in consigning fruit for them, Mr. Luke : It is the general opinion in Wellington that the growers have not had a fair deal. Mr. Low said that that was certainly not the case in Aitutaki. In reply to Mr. Veitch, Mr. Cooper said that the suggestion to form an association had come from the Natives themselves. Mr. Platts had visited the island in December, 1918, and the movement referred to was not in evidence until the following year. He did not know whether there was a similar movement on the other islands. As far as he was aware the Natives had acted on their own volition entirely without any advice from anywhere else —say, Rarotonga. The matter was originally brought up in the ordinary course of business at the Council.

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'In reply to a question from one of the traders, Mr. Cooper stated that the prices he posted up on the notice-board were obtained from Rarotonga. He had done his best to arrange for this information after the trouble of last year. It had been suggested that there was no definite information as to whether the prices he posted up were gross or not. He would see that in the future there was no doubt on this point. He had just received an offer of £35 a ton f.o.b. Rarotonga for copra. The Hon. Sir James Allen, in reply, said that so far as trade was concerned Mr. Low had put the position very clearty before the visitors. A Trade Commission was accompanying the party, and he invited the traders to place their views on record before them. The Commissioners had authority to take evidence on oath, and anything put forward would be recorded in the report that the Commission would submit to the Government.

Niue, 2nd Marcii, 1920. MEETING WITH THE ISLAND COUNCIL. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Mr. Morris (Resident Commissioner); members of Island Council. The Council, which consisted of ten members, was introduced by the Resident Commissioner, and the interpreting was conducted by Mr. Head. In introducing the Councillors Mr. Morris informed them that Sir James Allen had succeeded Hon. Dr. Pomare as Minister in Charge of the Islands. He told them that in meeting the Parliamentary Party they had an opportunity of speaking with absolute freedom, and he urged them to bring forward whatever they wished. It was an excellent chance for them to state any grievances, but if, on the other hand, they were satisfied with the condition of things they should not refrain from saying so. Vila, the Councillor for the village of Tuafa, on behalf of the Island Council and the village he represented, welcomed Sir James Allen and the members of Parliament on their visit, and thanked them. Hamoa, Councillor for Alofi, also extended a welcome to the visitors, whom they were all very pleased to see. Dr. Pomare had done good work on the island in the way of education and other matters, and had sent them a new Commissioner, Mr. Morris, who had given very great satisfaction. Mr. Morris had been very energetic, and had helped the cause of the Natives. The speaker also thanked the Minister for sending the new doctor. A doctor was very necessary to look after the sick of the island, and he asked that they might always get the best medical attention possible. A proper medical service they knew was expensive, but they asked New Zealand to help in this matter. They had had different Commissioners at different times who had introduced different laws. Did they carry on like that in New Zealand, or was it that such treatment was meted out to Nine only? Some of the laws were burdensome to the people. The Customs duties on all imported goods were very heavy. The people of the island were poor, and it was considered the duties should be lighter than in New Zealand, where the people were better off. New Zealand should help them more; it should spend more money upon the island and not depend upon the local revenues only. On the occasion of his visit to Niue the late Mr. Seddon had promised them all sorts of things if they would become affiliated to New Zealand. They were not a very well educated people, and the New-Zealanders knew better than they did what the island was worth. They had asked that the Native President of the Council should be retained. A letter had been sent to New Zealand on the subject, and the reply received had informed them that under the present law the Resident Commissioner had been appointed President. It was considered that the people of the island should make their own laws to suit local land conditions under the guidance of the Minister. Uea, the second Councillor for Alofi, who had been chaplain to the Niuean Contingent, referred to the visit of Lord Ranfurly on the occasion of the annexation of the island. There was a feeling amongst the islanders that the promises made at that time had not been fulfilled. The same feeling also prevailed with regard to the visit of the late Mr. Seddon. The islanders had been against affiliation, but Lord Ranfurly had said he represented the Queen and he had affiliated the -island to New Zealand. He, the speaker, expected they would get just the same treatment on the present occasion : the Europeans would simply hear what they had to say and then, go away and think nothing more about it. At the same time he hoped Niue would not be treated like that. As Dr. Pomare had left them he hoped they would get good treatment from his successor. He hoped also that the members of Parliament would visit Niue once a year. There were two things that the people on the island felt very strongly about. Their forefathers had been dead against liquor and the sale of Native land. Those laws were still being maintained at the present time. The present land laws enacted by New Zealand provided that the land should be surveyed and apportioned off. If then a tribe became extinct the land would revert to the Crown. Under the law the Natives were not allowed to will their properties. Property descended equally to all the members of a family. This did not suit the Natives. They should be allowed to make their own laws in this matter and to will, their properties as they liked. Moreover, the islanders did not wish to have the land surveyed. They had always carried on their own affairs with regard to land, and there had been no trouble. He wished to refer to the mana of the chiefs. There were still chiefs on the islands, but they had no authority. The new condition of things had caused this. In European countries this kind of thing had been

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kept up, but not in Niue. They desired to return to the previous state of things. The islanders also considered that the Niue men should be exempt from the payment of trading licenses: it should apply only to outsiders and to Europeans. Every islander who went away from Niue had to pay a tax of £1 a head. Uea asked that this tax should be repealed. The position with regard to the boundaries of the mission properties on the island was unsatisfactory. The land was not sold to the Church--it was given; but it had not belonged to the people who gave it. Then, the island of Niue was very much isolated from the rest of the world. The people desired a very much improved steamer service. They also wanted more schools in order to give the children a better education. The Hon. Sir James Allen asked what promises Lord Ranfurly and the late Mr. Seddon had made that had not been fulfilled. Uea said the matters he referred to were set out in the deeds of annexation. The islanders had not got a say in anything: their authority had been taken away. The Minister pressed for a definite reply to his question. Uea replied that the Niueans were promised equal authority in making the laws, and also the power of making direct taxation themselves. Now they had got to pay a poll-tax, duties were levied on all goods, and these duties were imposed on the Natives by the Europeans. The Minister again asked for a definite reply to his question, requesting Uea to state specifically the promises he referred to that had not been carried out, but Uea finally admitted that he was unable to do so. Sir James Allen, in reply, thanked them all for the kind welcome that had been extended to the visitors. The object of the visit was to enable Ihe members of Parliament to see the island for themselves, to learn the difficulties of the people, and to help them as far as possible. At the same time they wished the islanders to understand that they must, like the Europeans, help themselves in the matter of work. With regard to the expenditure of money, it had to be remembered that New Zealand had to keep its own country going, but at the same time the Dominion recognized its responsibility towards the island of Niue in some things and would help them; they must, however, help themselves to a certain extent. As for the-complaints as to taxation, Customs duties, ivc, we had taxation in New Zealand also; it was necessary in order to carry on. public works and to meet general expenditure. The same kind of things were wanted in Niue, principally education, and in order to secure these benefits there must be taxation. The Island Council had certain powers in this direction, and it was for themselves as well as New Zealand to see that the taxation was equitably imposed. It was incorrect to say that there were Customs duties on all imports. A great deal had been done for education on the island, and an experienced Inspector of the New Zealand Education Department had come with the visitors to look into matters and advise what further should be done. It had been said that promises made by Lord Ranfurly and by Mr. Seddon had not been fulfilled. He would be very sorry indeed to learn that this was really so. One of the Councillors had stated it was understood they were to have some say in making the laws of the island. The Council had very considerable powers in making laws. They had said a promise was made that there should be no direct taxation. He did not know of any direct taxation imposed by New Zealand, but the Council had imposed some direct taxation itself. If they had imposed it he concluded they could remove it. He had made very careful inquiry from the speakers, but he could not learn that any promise made by Lord Ranfurly or Mr. Seddon had not been kept. He was glad to hear that the two great promises made to them had been kept —namely, that no land should be allowed to be sold except to the Government, and that liquor was not allowed to be introduced. With regard to the willing of land, there were two sides to this question. If the present law were done away with and the people allowed to will their lands without any restrictions whatever some Natives might leave their children without any land at all. He had, however, already promised the people of Rarotonga to consider this clause in the Act upon his return to New Zealand, and if it. could be amended with sufficient safeguards this would be done. As to the payment of trading licenses, this was necessary in order to keep up the revenue and thus meet expenditure. It only seemed fair to treat all alike in this matter. He had heard previously of the emigration charge of £1 per head on every Native who left the island, and would consult with the Resident Commissioner on the subject. It was an Island Ordinance, and appeared to have been enacted for the good of the island. Several of the islands in the Pacific looked to Nine to provide labour for them, but she must keep sufficient labour for her own work. As to the boundaries of the mission properties, a new missionary was coming, and the question would be settled then. The Government sympathized with the Niueans in their isolation, and would help them as far as possible. Just before he had left New Zealand a tender had been accepted for an auxiliary schooner service from Auckland to Nine, which he hoped would prove satisfactory to tlTem. The question of improving the landing-place was receiving attention, and also the possibility of establishing wireless communication with the island. A Public Works Engineer and a Telegraph Engineer, both of whom were accompanying the party, were looking into these matters during the visit. During his visit Lord Liverpool had promised them a hospital. Towards this object £1,000 had been handed over by His Excellency from the Red Cross funds, and he understood the Administration had a sum of money in hand to supplement this amount. He understood also that the foundation-stone had been laid, and that Dr. Chesson and the Public Works Engineer had inspected the site to see whether it was suitable. A doctor had been sent down to Niue comparatively recently, and it had been hoped to bring a nurse down with the Parliamentary Party, but, unfortunately, at the last moment she had been unable to leave New Zealand just now. Niue was not forgotten in New Zealand, and the Dominion would continue to help them : the visit of the members of the Parliamentary Party that day was an assurance of this fact.

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WESTERN SAMOA. Apia, sth March, 1920. FAIPUI.ES' SPEECH OF WELCOME TO PARLIAMENTARY PARTY ON LANDING. We, who are Faipules, representatives of all the districts of Western Samoa, have the greatest respect in addressing you. We, the Princes of Samoa, Malietoa, and Tupua, and the ActingAdministrator, are for the present under the rule of His Majesty George V, King of Great Britain. We had expected the visit of the New Zealand Government, under whose protection Western Samoa is now placed. As you have now arrived in good health it gives us great pleasure to welcome you to-day to these shores. We also thank that our Governor, Colonel Tate, has arrived. You are members of the Parliament of New Zealand. It is your earnest desire and real affection that Western Samoa should attain prosperity and every satisfaction. This has prompted you to come here. We hope that the climate of this country may suit you all during your stay, and that Western Samoa may profit as the result of your visit. We wish to meet your party in our meetinghouse at Mulinuu this afternoon. May each of the party possess the best of health. (Signed.) Aiono. Toelupe. Malupo. And 29 others. The Hon. Sir James Allen, on behalf of himself and the members of the Parliamentary Party, thanked the Faipules most sincerely for their welcome. He was sure that the visit would prove of mutual benefit to the peoples of Samoa and of New Zealand. MEETING WITH FAIPULES AT MULINUU. Present: Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) and members of the Parliamentary Party; Colonel R. W. Tate (Administrator of Western Samoa); High Chiefs Malietoa and Tuimalealiifane; Faipules; and Asiata, Official Interpreter. The following is a translation of the address read on behalf of the Faipules by their President : — This is a very happy day, for it has brought you to meet with us. Your party have arrived in safety. We give thanks that our Governor, who has been on a visit to New Zealand, has returned with you. Your party at your arrival have found us with the Acting-Administrator and the Princes of Samoa in good health, therefore we must all join in rejoicing this day. You are the members of the Parliament of the New Zealand Government, and the party sent by the Governor-General of New Zealand; you are also taken as representatives of His Majesty George V, King of Great Britain, to visit our small islands in Western Samoa in order that you may obtain the right subjects to order the Constitution about to start for the protection and administration of Samoa by Britain according to the desires of the League of Nations. Therefore we now have to express the utmost thanks for your visit, which proves the fact that had led His Majesty and the British nation and Allies to the Great War just ended —that all nations of the world be treated alike, from'the Great Powers to the small nations, as Samoa, so that all shall have every satisfaction and not be held under oppressive rules. Subsequently the great and difficult war has resulted in the coming to Western Samoa of the Government of His Majesty King George V. This day the father meets the son : the father will hear the desires of the son ; the son will listen to the good words and kind advices of his father. Therefore the points we have arrived at in our meetings written above our signatures will be read out with due reverence. We have been authorized by the royal families of Samoa, and also representing the people of Western Samoa, to present these points for your consideration and the laying-out of the foundation of our Government, also for the commencement of the protection of Samoa by the British Government. Address to Sir James Allen, K.C.B. (Minister op External Affairs), and Members of the New Zealand Parliament. Honourable Sirs, —It is with humility and earnestness that we, the President and members of the Samoan Council, do unanimously place before you the questions mentioned hereafter for your favourable consideration. We put forward these matters knowing that your desire is for the protection and betterment of the Samoan people and Western Samoa itself. Further, we ask, honourable sirs, that such consideration be given the undermentioned points as will enable you to make a reply at your convenience before you leave Western Samoa. The wishes of the members of the Samoan Parliament assembled 25th February to 3rd March is hereby presented as follows : — 1. The people of Western Samoa have obediently accepted the order issued by His Majesty King George Yin placing Western Samoa under the care of New 'Zealand. Should dissatisfaction of the Samoan become greater with the Administration it will then be possible for the Samoans to appeal that Samoa shall be ruled from England by the Colonial Office. 2. The Faipules have decided that the appointment " Fautua " (Intercessor), which had been given to the Princess of Samoa by the German. Government, be abolished, and they shall be given hereafter the title " Princes " of Samoa, and their salaries be increased each to £500 per annum, with European dwellings erected for them, and allowances for their maintenance until further future arrangements are made with the New Zealand Government. 3. The power to hold meetings by the Faipules of Samoa be recorded in the Constitution of the Government.

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4. It is the unanimous decision of the Faipules to present before the Governor and Parliamentary Party from New Zealand the following: All Proclamations must first be decided by the Princes of Samoa and the Governor in the meetings with the Faipules of Samoa. If all agree with the Proclamation, announcement will then be made to all parts of Samoa for trial for a few years, and if in good working-order then it can become law for the Natives, whites, and all other people in Samoa. 5. The unanimous decision of the meeting that two Sainoans be appointed to attend the New Zealand Parliament meetings. 6. It is the unanimous decision of the Samoan Parliament that some of the Samoan boys be sent to New Zealand for the term of three years for education in reference to the works in the different Departments of the Samoan Government. 7. It is the unanimous decision of the Samoan Parliament to erect hospitals in various parts of Samoa, as they are in Apia. A clever surgeon and a stethoscopist must be appointed, and also the Samoan boys and girls be taught in medical services in New 'Zealand. 8. It is the unanimous decision of the Samoan Parliament to erect a college for the Samoan Government and schoolhouses in various parts of Samoa, and to send Samoan boys to be educated in New Zealand as school-teachers. 9. It is the unanimous decision of the Samoan Councillors that all the revenues of the Samoan Government be referred to the meeting of the Faipules, Governor, and the Princes of Samoa for their decision for disbursement to various works. 10. The salaries of the Sainoans employed together with white officials in the Government offices at Apia and Fagamalo shall be comparatively equal. They must also receive trip allowances and furlough passage fees, as allowed to white officials. 11. The salaries of the Native Councillors to be raised to £10 per month, and an increase to be made on salaries of all other Native officials in monthly payments. 12. Any native land required to be used by the Government should receive the concurrence of the Princes of Samoa and the Faipules in a meeting with the Governor. 13. A pension to be allowed to Native Government officials serving over ten years. Should a Native Government official die on duty by accident his family— i.e., wife and children—to be allowed to receive support. If lie dies while faithfully serving, his family should receive remuneration according to the time he had served the Government. Such amounts are to be fixed in the meetings of the Councillors and the Governor. 14. The importation into Samoa of intoxicating liquor is to be forbidden. 15. It is the unanimous wish of the Councillors to erect a wireless station at Savaii; also telephone-lines to connect all parts of Upolu and Savaii to be arranged. 16. Roads to connect all parts of Upolu, including cross-roads and bridges over rivers, to be constructed, and to be done as well in Savaii. The capital, Apia, to be improved, and its harbour; a large wharf to be erected, also substantial breakwaters; and a town-clock to be provided. 17. The Samoan to be permitted whichever path suitable to him to obtain sporting arms — i.e., breech-loader or muzzle-loader, and ammunition. 18. A Government printing-press for various Government requirements to be established. 19. There must be a Native Assessor, to be appointed for the Chief Judge's session in Native Court cases in the Courts at Apia and Fagamalo. 20. A steamer is urgently needed for the use of the Samoan Government to ply between the islands of Samoa, for many accidents have happened resulting in deaths due to bad boats. 21. The Government to improve the graves of victims of the epidemic who are buried in the graveyard at Vaimea. 22. The New Zealand Government to give immediate instructions to Samoa for the protection against epidemic when news received in New Zealand. 23. The Native police in Apia to be apparelled like white men, as was always done in the past. 24. The Judge of Native Affairs (Captain Cotton) to be replaced by a person who is acquainted with the customs of Samoa in the position of Judge and Secretary of Native Affairs. 25. The Government to investigate and regulate the prices of goods in buying and selling by the traders and in the Native markets of Samoa. 26. It has been unanimously agreed in the meeting by the Native Councillors to erect a meeting-house, weatherboarded in European style, for .the Parliament of Samoa. 27. The seventy Samoan Constabulary from New Zealand to be returned back to New Zealand. (Signed) Aiono, F. P. Fonoti, S. Vaai. Toelupe. Taimalelagi. Aeau. Malupo. Tuisalega. Sala Leo. puepuemai. unasa. matiu. Laulu. Leilua. Tainau. Salanoa. Tofaeono. Tuilaepa. Tapusoa. Lemalu. Amani, A. A'ama. Seiuli. Asiata, T. 11l Nanai. Lofipo. tuataga. sagapolu. asi ata, n. Seinafo. Logo. T. Laupue, Failautusi ole Fono.

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Hon. Sir James Allen, in reply : Speaking to you on behalf of the members of the New Zealand Parliamentary Party who have come here to-day, we are very grateful for your good wishes, and are thankful that we have come in good health and find you in good health. It is a unique occasion that you and we should be sitting here to-day to discuss these questions. You and we rejoice that the war has come to an end and that peace may now be with us. You have placed certain specific proposals before us, some of which can be answered at once and some of which will require consideration. You have asked that you should receive satisfaction and that you should not be held under oppressive rule. 1 give you the promise from New Zealand that no oppressive rules will be imposed upon you. It is our desire that you should continue your government —your own local government—in very much the same way as it has been carried on in the past. You have referred to New Zealand as your father, and yourselves as sons of New Zealand, and the father cannot oppress his son. The father loves his son and will do all that he can for his good. He may not give to the son all that the son asks, because he thinks it may not be good for the son. But whatever he does it will be out of love for his son. As regards the Samoan Government—the Civil Administration —I am not in a position to-day to tell you that we can institute in the whole the Civil Government because we have not yet complete authority to do so. We have been making ready to institute the Civil Government, and we are waiting an order from the British Government, when we will immediately proceed to act. We are acting through King George's Government and under authority from the League of Nations. You perhaps know that there has been some delay in instituting the Council of the League of Nations, but that is no fault of King George and his Government, and no fault of ours. We have been very anxiously awaiting word from King George's Government that we might complete the Civil Administration. Twice since we left New Zealand I have asked the Right Hon. the Prime Minister to communicate with the Secretary of State for the Colonies asking whether the complete Mandate cannot be expedited. If, therefore, we are not able to do all that we desire to do it is not our fault. lam hoping that before we leave Samoa the Order in Council will have been received from the British Government, and we will immediately complete ours in New Zealand. I want to give you the assurance that it is our desire to secure your protection and the betterment of the people of Western Samoa. With regard to the wishes of the members of the Samoan Parliament, J am glad to know that the people have obediently accepted the order issued by King George's Government placing Samoa under New Zealand. New Zealand accepts that care as a sacred trust. We have experience of the Maoris in New Zealand, and so we do not come to you to help you without knowledge. lam confident, therefore, that the latter part of your first resolution will never trouble you, because lam sure we shall so act that we shall give you not dissatisfaction but satisfaction. On consideration I do not think the alternative will appeal to you. If you are ruled from England by the Colonial Office we cannot come and meet you and hear what you have to say. You like to see us here and we like to see you, and we can help each other. It could not be so under the Colonial Office. In your second resolution you ask that the name " Fautua " should be abolished. I suggest to you that you should retain the name of " Fautua." It is a name that we respect, and always will respect. You ask that the salaries of the " Fautuas " should be increased each to £500, and that dwellings should be erected, and that allowances for their maintenance should be made. I cannot give you a definite answer just now about the increase in salary. I shall have to consult the Administrator and the Parliament of New Zealand before any definite answer can be given about this. In regard to the erection of dwellings, might I give my own personal opinion that I would rather meet you in this dwelling than in a European dwelling. In your third resolution you ask that the power to hold meetings by the Faipules of Samoa be recorded in the Constitution of the Government. I do not think this is necessary, because it would probably restrict your powers. It is better that you should carry on your Government as in the past, and that we should not interfere, except that later on we may come to the conclusion that an alteration should be made in the Constitution. As regards your fourth resolution, I regret that I cannot agree with this, for the reason that there are white men in Samoa who are under our care also, and to put all the power in the hands of the High Chiefs without considering the whites would not be fair to them. You have two chiefs who are advisers to the Administrator, and they will continue to be advisers. You also have your Faipules, who are in touch with the Administrator, and I think, that for the time being will be sufficient. Your chiefs can be placed in the Legislative Council and sit with the Administrator if you so desire. As regards your fifth resolution, we should be very glad indeed to see two of your members attend the meetings of the New Zealand Parliament, but Ido not think it is practicable. I will submit the matter to the Right Hon. the Prime Minister when I return to New Zealand and give you a definite answer later on. With regard to your sixth resolution, we are already sending some of your boys to New Zealand to be trained in departmental work for work in Samoa, and we will continue to do so. We are anxious that your own lads should carry on your works, and we will carry out that proposal. As regards your seventh resolution, the matter is one to be submitted to the Administrator. As regards the appointing of a surgeon, where a man is really required the New Zealand Government will sympathetically consider the question through the Administrator. In your eighth resolution you ask that a college should be erected in Samoa and that Samoan boys should be educated in New Zealand as school-teachers. I do not quite understand what you mean by a " college," but perhaps you will explain later to the Administrator. We have brought to Samoa an Inspector of the New Zealand schools, who has come down to ascertain your needs, and when his report is received it will be carefully considered. With regard to Samoans being educated in New Zealand as school-teachers, if we are not sending them already we will do with you what we are doing with the Cook Islands : we will accept some of them in New Zealand for further training as teachers. As regards your ninth resolution, I regret that I cannot agree to this. It would not be fair to the

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whites, and the Administrator must for the time being control the expenditure. As regards youi tenth resolution, I cannot give you a definite answer just now. I must consult with the Administrator as to the difference in the salaries paid and the conditions under which the whites and the Natives work. I regret that I cannot agree to the trip allowances and the passage fees as allowed to white officials. Some of the officials coming to Samoa from New Zealand have these paid, but there are special circumstances in these cases. With regard to your eleventh resolution, I must consult with the Administrator. As regards your twelfth resolution, I have no doubt that the Governor of Samoa will meet your Faipules and your High Chiefs and consult with them about any land that may be required for the Government. But we must not place ourselves in the position of not being able to acquire land, as we do in New Zealand for schools, &c, under the Public Works Act. We must keep that power. The question raised in your thirteenth resolution is a very difficult one, and I cannot give you a direct answer to-day. It will be considered; but you must understand that if pensions have to be provided the money will have to be found out of the revenues of the Samoan Administration. With regard to the fourteenth resolution, the importation of intoxicating liquor is forbidden, and so far as I am concerned there will be no relaxation whatever. The Mandate imposes it upon us as a duty not to supply intoxicating liquor to the Samoans under our care. And lam of opinion that what is good for the Samoan is good for the white man also. The importation has been stopped, and further steps will be taken as soon as the Mandate is complete. As regards the fifteenth resolution, we have an expert with us to examine into the question of wireless stations and telephones, and I hope that as a result of the visit and investigations that are made we may be able to install wireless telephones in Upolu and Savaii. In the sixteenth resolution you ask that roads and bridges should be constructed. This is a matter for yourselves. I think I had better tell you what the Government is prepared to do in regard ■to your finance generally. The New Zealand Government is prepared to lend the Samoan Administration money for construction of revenue-producing works such as waterworks, drainage, &c. on the condition that the Administration pays the New Zealand Government 5 per cent, interest and 1 per cent, sinking fund. This interest and sinking fund is charged to your Administration because the works will directly benefit you. If you have water and drainage there will be water and drainage rates. For other works which cannot be considered as revenue-producing, such as public buildings and some of your roads, where you are not able to meet the expenditure yourselves the New : Zealand Government will advance you the money, and will charge for the time being no interest. We have a Public Works Engineer with us to examine into questions of public works, roads, bridges, and the staffs required for them. With regard to the seventeenth resolution, the Mandate tells us that we are not to supply arms except under very stringent conditions, and that will have to be obeyed. The request made by you in the eighteenth resolution is one to be settled with your Governor. I do not quite understand your nineteenth resolution. If it means that a Native assessor is to sit with the Chief Judge in the Native Court in coming to a decision, that cannot be agreed to. In resolution 20 you ask that a steamer should be provided for the Government. Inquiry will be made into this, and an answer sent to you later on. As regards resolution 21, I will consult with the Administrator regarding the graves, and I can assure you that we are anxious to have them properly cared for. Regarding resolution 22, information is already being sent from New Zealand every week. Lately we have been receiving from various parts of the world general information about the various epidemics, and that also is being sent. We shall continue to send it to you. Regarding resolution 23, Ido not know that in the past the Native police were dressed like white men. May I express my opinion that I would rather see your policemen in their own Native dress rather than in the dress of the policemen in New Zealand. I hope you will accept the advice of your father and keep these of your children in their Native dress. In resolution 24 you ask that Captain Cotton should be replaced. I have had the most favourable reports sent to me regarding Captain Cotton. However, inquiry will be made into your request, and I can assure you that if his work lias not been satisfactory steps will be taken to secure some one who will do it properly. You understand that Captain Cotton has been reported on most favourably, and it is my duty to protect him in his work, and I shall do so. In resolution 25 you. ask the Government to investigate and regulate the prices of goods. This also is a very difficult question. We have with us three Trade Commissioners, and I shall be glad, if you have any evidence in regard to trade, if you will represent it to them. If you are being exploited the Government of New Zealand will support the Administrator in seeing that you are charged fair prices and fair prices only. In regard to resolution 26, it is for you to decide whether you erect a meeting-house in European style. You can decide whether you will do so, but I have already answered this question, and we would rather meet you here than in European fashion. The last resolution asks that the Constabulary should be returned to New Zealand. Ido not think it is safe to do so now. They will in due course be returned to New Zealand. There are reasons which occur to me why, when we removed the garrison, they should be replaced, for a time at any rate, by Civil police. We have a duty to keep the peace in Samoa, and these police are here so that we may carry out our wishes in this matter. Ido not think that you or any Samoan will cause trouble. We are relying upon you to assist us if trouble should arise. When we sent the police down peace was not ratified. They will be removed ultimately, and we desire to rely upon you Samoans. I have answered your questions. The President : These points were given to be considered by you and the members of Parliament, and we are not anxious for an immediate reply. We desire that full consideration should be given to them. We understand that some of the points are accepted, and some are to be considered again by the Administrator or the Parliament of New Zealand, and some have received a reply. This is the first meeting of the Parliament of Samoa and the Parliament of New Zealand. Whether the points are accepted or not, we wish them to be reconsidered and not to be withdrawn. As to the name " Fautua," it was one given by the Germans to the Princes of Samoa, and for that reason we desire to have it changed.

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Hon. Sir James Allen: The matters about which you have not received direct answers will be further considered. Regarding the name " Fautua," I was not aware it was given by the Germans. I think you should discuss the matter with yourselves and the Administrator, and suggest some other title.

Apia, 7th March, 1920. INSPECTION OF PLANTATIONS. Notes re Conditions of Chinese and other Indentured Labourers. Wetzel's Plantation. It was explained to the parly by Mr. Conrad (manager of the plantation) and by Mr. Cobcroft that the Samoan women open the cocoa-pods, doing the work on task. Their wages are 3s. per day, and they may finish the task in three, four, five, or six hours. After seeing the Chinese labourers' quarters and being shown a room occupied by a man and a woman Mr. Holland asked Mr. Conrad : Do a man and woman live in there all the time? —A Chinaman and a Native woman. Supposing the Chinaman marries in that form and the time comes when he wants to take the woman back to China, can he do it? —No. The children are illegitimate according to German law : the woman is not properly married. What proportion of the Chinamen are married in that way? —A little less than two hundred. And there are one thousand in Samoa? —Eight hundred. Colonel Tate (Administrator) : There were six hundred according to the last figures given to me —six hundred on the plantations. Mr. Holland : I should like to know what the rules are governing the lives of the Chinese here. Are they free to come and go as they like, or have you rules? Colonel Tate (to Mr. Conrad): If the Chinaman leaves the plantation must he have a leavepass?—Yes; and if he goes without it I complain to the Chinese Commissioner. If they could do what they liked, to-morrow I should have twenty out of the forty that I now have here, and the next day none. Mr. Holland : If he goes away without the leave-pass, what happens?—Tf he comes back the same day I do not say anything; but if he stays longer I have to report to the Chinese Commissioner. And you send the police?— The Commissioner does that. What form of punishment have you got?—lf he stays away we take 2s. out of his wages. What becomes of that 2s. ?—The plantation does not pay it. He is not paid for his day's work. Have you any form of lock-up, or watch-house, or anything like that on the plantation?—lt is not the law. We cannot do that. We can only stop 2s. off his pay. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : I should like a little more information about the proportion of Chinese with women here. Hon. Sir James Allen : When we took over there were three thousand Chinese here. More than two thousand have gone back, and probably the married men have been left. Mr. Conrad : The married men stayed. Hon. Sir James Allen : How many of these men are living with women ? —There are ten women and forty Chinese. Mr. Wright : In addition to the Chinaman having his pay stopped when, lie is absent, he is also fined 2s. ? The Chinese Consul explained : According to the contract, his wages are deducted for the day he has lost, and then, by the Labour Ordinance, lie will be fined or imprisoned. The employer deducts the wages, and the Court fines or imprisons. Mr. Luke (to Mr. Conrad) : Will these Samoan women that are living here go round and be used by other Chinamen, or do they stick to the one?— They stick to the one. They do not go about. Mr. Anderson: How many Chinese labourers are living in these huts that we see?— About forty men. What happens if the Chinese labourer, after being fined, says " I will not go back "? _ Mr. J. Kerslake (Acting Chinese Commissioner) :He is simply sent back. My position is practically that of arbitrator between the Chinese and the employer. In the first place he must ask permission to leave the plantation, and permission must not be withheld without very good reason. If the labourer had not good reason to leave, T would send out the police to find him, hear his reason, and send him back to the plantation. Mr. Anderson: If he said "I will not go back to the plantation"?—! would tell hnn he had made a contract for two years and he would have to work there, and I would advise him to go back. . But all that failing and assuming he would not go back ?—I would take him to Court, and he would explain his reason to the Judge. What would happen then ?—lf a labourer said he would not go back he must have some very good reason. I would approach the employer and say that T thought he had better let him seek a new employer. Both parties being agreeable, he would be allowed to go elsewhere. If the planter was not agreeable, I want to know what would happen finally. Do you send him back to his country, or do you. let him go free?—No; he must go to some one. He will be given permission to find a new employer, and he will do so.

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And if he will not?— Then ho will be declared a vagabond, and held for the next transport. Mr. Cobcroft : 1 wish to make it clear that there are seven women and forty men on this plantation. Four Chinese labourers (Nos. 3111, 3122, 2951, and another) were questioned, through an interpreter. Hon. Sir James Allen: Are they satisfied with the conditions of their work?— Yes. Are any of these men married?— One (No. 3111) is living with a Samoan woman. Is he married to her according to Samoan custom?— They simply live together. Does she live with him only? —Yes. The Chinese Consul : In marrying her, did he have the permission of a relative?—No; they simply like one another. Mr. Holland : Are there any children ?—One child. Mr. McCombs : Will the child go back to China with him? —No, it cannot. Mr. Holland: How were they informed in China of the fact that they were wanted for labour in Samoa?— The conditions are read by a man who recruits the coolie. What is the recruiting system?— They have nearly forgotten it, they have been here so long. How long have they been here?— Seven or eight years—reindentured. Hon. Sir James Allen : He had the right to go back and did not go?— That, is so. Mr. Holland : They have been here seven or eight years?— Yes. And only one of them is married?— Yes. There are seven women among forty males here. But out of these forty only one is married ?—Only one. The others have been here seven years and have not married at all ?—No. Never go out with a Samoan woman?— No. In the absence of relationship with women, is there male prostitution among the Chinamen here?— No. Do they live lives of absolute celibacy? —I think they tried to get one, but they cannot support or cannot get a woman. So far as I know Ido not think there is any male prostitution. I have been here only a short time. What punishments have they been subjected to during the time they have been here, under German law and under British law?— These four are good coolies. They have all a clean record. They have never been up for punishment. Have they ever been in any conflict with the Natives ?—No. Do they know of any conflicts between the Natives and the Chinese?—So far they have not had any. Others may have; they cannot say. What is the # difference between the wages they receive here and the wages they received in their own country before they came here? —They have rather more wages here, but the cost of living is dear, which makes up the difference. This one got £1 per month at the time he enlisted. Hon. Sir. James Allen: What was he getting in China?— Five dollars—Mexican dollars. Was he fed for the five dollars ?—Yes. How about medical attendance? —He paid for that out of his own pocket. Does he get his food here and medical attendance? —Yes. Mr. Holland : What are his wages here now?—£2 10s. a month. What food does he get?—lf lb. of rice per day, and 12s. food allowance. Hon. Sir James Allen: Is that in addition to the £2 10s.?—He gets the food in addition to the £2 10s. ; it is not included. Mr. Holland : Are they required to do a task, or do they just do a day's work? Are they required to do so-much work in a day?— According to the contract, ten hours a day. Sometimes they do contract work, sometimes not. If they are on the ten-hours-a-day arrangement they are not required to do a task?— No. When they are doing contract work, as soon as they get it done they are at liberty to go away. What work are they doing—handling these cocoa-pods?— Yes. They do not have to do so-many trucks in a day? —No. They have some special meaning about contract work. As soon as they have finished it they can go. That is task work. Hon. Sir James Allen : What is the number of the first 0ne?—3122. Is he on task work? —He is doing task work at present. What does he get for his task?—To pick cocoa-pods. What does he earn per month?—-No difference. That means £2 10s. and 12s. ?—Yes. Does his task take him ten hours, or less? —It. does not take ten hours; he cannot say how many. What is the number of the second man ?—2951. Will you please get the same facts from him? —He is on task work, receiving £2 10s. and 12s. Does it take him less than ten hours?— Not necessarily ten hours. Now we will take No. 3111 : what wages does he receive?—£3 10s. a month. Mr. Conrad :He is the fireman here. He receives an extra £1. His wife sometimes works, and is paid 3s. a day. Mr. McCombs : As a Samoan does she get her food from the bush? Mr. Conrau : Her food is included in the 3s. She finds her own. Mr. Wright: Where a Samoan woman is living with a Chinaman, who provides her food? Does the Chinaman she is living with or does the employer?—lt comes out of the Chinaman's,wages. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : If this man were allowed, would he marry her in a legal way?—He would.

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Tanumapua Plantation, owned by the Upolu Rubber and Cocoa Estates, Limited. Mr. H. Morley (the manager) said : The trouble is we have not sufficient labour. Now there arc only twelve labourers. To run the place we want three hundred. We had 295 in 1915. Mr. Isitt: Have you any women on the plantation?— None whatever. We formerly had Samoan men and women. It is very hard to keep them. Did they work as the Chinese do? —No. Did they stop with you any length of time?— N o—two or three weeks. They were very irregular. Do you believe it would be possible to get three hundred Chinese coolies and avoid their mixing with the women I —lf the Government are strong enough to stop that, certainly. One planter has told us that if you insisted on repatriation at the end of three years the Chinese would not have time to pick up the Native language, and that would make it difficult for them to cohabit; and at the same time the Samoan woman would not join up with a Chinaman if she knew he was here only for a short time like that? —I do not think there is much in that. The Samoan women would probably only stop with them for two or three months. Mr. Kellett : What about the Chinese labourers bringing their own women ?—I think that would be all right. Mr. S. G. Smith : Do the Sainoans get the same rate of pay as the Chinese? —The coolies run into about 4s. 6d., including repatriation; the Samoans, 3s. lOd. or 3s. lid. per day. Mr. Holland : Cut out the cost of repatriation and the figure is about the same? —It is about 4s. Id. for the coolie and 3s. lid. for the Samoan. You had 294 Chinese here at one stage?— Yes, in 1915. The bulk of those were repatriated?— Yes. Were many of them living with Samoan women ?—I think we had only about two on this estate. The rest were unmarried ?—Yes. What was their relationship with the women on the island : did they live lives of absolute celibacy? —They used to go down to the Samoan villages at the week-end. What is the effect of the system on the moral conditions? —If the Chinese are allowed to run about the island it is bad for the Natives. These Chinese who do not marry according to Chinese custom —you do not think they live lives of celibacy?—lt is very hard to say, of course, but I do not think so. Hon. Mr. Earnshaw : With regard to the difference in the cost of living, 4s. Id. as against 3s. lid., what do you consider is the ratio of values as between Samoan and Chinamen ?—I consider the Chinese worker is a long way ahead of the Samoan —100 per cent, better. It would be utterlyimpossible to run the place with Samoans. Formerly, if I wanted Samoans, I would get a hundred. If I wanted Samoans now I would probably get fifty, and next week there would be twenty or probably none at all. Since the epidemic it has been very hard to get Samoan labour. Is the labourer free to go when he has done his days work?— Yes, he can range the country. Does that mean he can walk away from the plantation without a permit?— Yes. If he goes away for two or three days he must have a permit, but not for one day only. Mr. Luke : What are the hours of labour? —It is generally task work. They generally finish, probably, at ten in the morning. Can they earn more than 4s.? —No, that is the maximum wage. The hours are from 6to 12 and from 1 to 5, but it is very rarely they work those hours. Mr. Wright : If a man is given a task and he fails to finish it in the time, will he have to work longer hours to finish it? —Certainly. The task is a day task. He might have to do twelve hours? —When he accepts the contract the Chinaman knows how long it will take. He takes the contract of his own free will. It is very rarely that we can get the Chinese to work day work. Is there no case on record when a man has failed to complete his task in the time? —Never. Usually four hours is the time taken. Mr. Isitt : Supposing you dispensed with indentured labour altogether, is it true that the beetle would overrun the whole island and destroy the Samoan's coconut-trees? —I have no doubt whatever. If you do not get indentured labour it means the ruin of the industry?— Absolutely. Mr. Anderson : Supposing you had a full supply of labour to work these plantations, how many acres could one man do? How many men would you require?—l should require three hundred men for the two plantations. Of 2,510 acres, 1,103 are under cultivation. The number I have given you is the number required to keep up the area already planted. How many would you require if you turned the whole 2,510 acres into profit?— Four hundred coolies would be sufficient. We would make up with Samoans. Mr. Holland? —How many labourers would you need for the whole island to save these plantations going back, to nature?—l have not gone into that. We would require five hundred altogether for ourselves. I should say that probably six thousand, speaking roughly, would be needed for the whole island. Mr. Luke : What is the greatest number you have had on the island at one time? —I think there were five thousand in the German Government's time. Hon. Sir James Allen: Have there been more than three thousand? Mr. Kerslake : No. There was a treaty, I think, by which the Germans could bring in more labour as it was required. Mr. Holland : Did the three thousand include the Solomon Islanders? Hon. Sir James Allen: It was three thousand altogether.

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Mr. Anderson (to Mr. Morley): Do you find the Solomon Islanders are as good as the coolies?— They are better. It is difficult to get the number. Is there a prejudice against them?— There is no prejudice here against them. Mr. Holland : Have the Samoans raised any objection?— The Samoans themselves have up to the present not raised any objection. Mr. Anderson (to Mr. Morley) : Does the Samoan have any prejudice against his women going with the black boys?—lt is only very rarely that the black boys do go with them. The Sainoans look down upon them, I suppose?— Yes. They do not look down on the Chinese?—To a certain extent they do. What class of Samoan woman goes into these compounds?—ln some cases fairly decent girls go with the labourers. It is generally arranged by their parents. Mr. Wright: The parents evidently offer no objection?— When a Samoan woman goes with a Chinaman it is generally arranged by the parents, faa Samoa. Mr. Anderson: The parents generally get a consideration from the coolie?— Yes; in fact, in all cases. Mr. Holland : Has it anything to do with the Chinese custom in China? Mr. Kerslake : I do not know. The Chinese Interpreter : According to Chinese law the man must ask permission from the head of the family—that is the father, or, if he is dead, the elder brother. The arrangement must be made between the parents on both sides. Mr. Wright : Does the young man have to make any present to the parents of the girl? The Chinese Interpreter : Through the parents.

Apia, 9th March, 1920. INSPECTION OF PLANTATIONS. Visit to D.H. and P.G.s Mulifanua Plantation, now under Control of New Zealand Military Liquidator. After a tour of inspection through the plantation the party adjourned to the manager's residence, where the Hon. Sir James Allen announced that the manager, Mr. Helg, would be prepared to answer any questions that the members cared to address to him. The following conference took place : — Hon. Sir James Allen: How long is it since the plantation was started?—ln 1870—fifty years ago. At the present time there are 4,200 acres under cultivation. How many labourers had you here wdien the war broke out?—32o black boys. Up to the present we have always employed black boys. To-day we have 145 black boys. How many overseers are there on the property ?—There are nine white, half-caste, and three-quarter-caste overseers, and three carpenters. They are good men if the}' do not get too much liquor. How have you been able to keep the plantation up to its present condition during the war with these fewer labourers? —By the help of my great experience. The cattle have also been a great help. When I took over the plantation we had twelve hundred head of cattle : to-day we have nearly four thousand. When the war broke out we had four thousand five hundred head, and the difference in the number to-day is due to the supply of beef to oblige the military authorities during the occupation. How much labour is required to keep the plantation up to its present state of cultivation? — At least 280 black boys are required to keep the plantation in the state in which you see it to-day. If it is desired to break in new country, how many boys would be required to each 100 acres? —140 boys are required to keep 400 acres in cultivation—that is, if they are under good sober white control. For each new 100 hundred acres broken in how many extra boys would be required?— Fifteen would do. I understand you have had experience of black, boys and Chinese: which do you consider better labourers ? —I have had experience of Chinese, and I consider they are far behind the black boys. For one thing it takes much longer to make the Chinese understand what you want. It takes at feast two years to make the Chinese understand, but the black boys are able to understand very.much quicker, and are able to make themselves understood. You know that the black boys have to be repatriated and that we cannot get any more of them. How many Chinese will you require to take their places? —In my opinion the plantation will require about 75 per cent, more Chinese than black boys to do the same amount of work. In other words, the plantation will require 175 Chinese for every 100 black boys. If you cannot get black boys and if you cannot get Chinese, is it not possible to get Samoans? —I do not believe so. At present I have twenty-five or thirty working on the plantation. Do they work regularly?—No; I never can depend upon them. What work do they do?— Copra-cutting. Will they do anything else?—l do not think so. Lately I made a contract with ten Natives to lay water-pipes on the plantation. I offered them 3s. per day and food. The pulvnu'u came and offered to make this contract, and the Samoans said they would be on the plantation on Monday afternoon at 4 o'clock in order to start work at 6 o'clock the following morning. They did not arrive, but came on Tuesday morning about 7.30, and when I complained of their want of punctuality they told me that if that did not suit me they would go; and they went.

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You told me as we went through the plantation this morning that it was practically free of the beetle? —Yes. There is no beetle in the whole of the plantation, but in order to keep it in that state we have to fight our neighbours. The Samoans are making new plantations in our neighbourhood. The clearing of the bush is done in a very indifferent manner. They simply get the trees down and do not burn the wood. The bark and the leaves rot, and at once provide a harbourfng-place where the beetles lay their eggs and the larvae hatch. In this way the breeding goes on, and in a few months' time they would be flying all over our plantation. Since the beetle pest arrived in Samoa the boys on this plantation have gathered about two and a half million beetles and larvae and eggs. We work at least five miles beyond our boundaries, and all this land has to be searched by our boj's. We also do the same work on the western side, where the Natives have their cultivation. There is no doubt that the great danger to this plantation is the land of our neighbours. Am I to understand, then, that if your plantation is allowed to go back the plantations of the Natives will become very much worse from the beetles?— Undoubtedly. Do you think the Native plantations would be able to cope with the beetles if this plantation were allowed to go back to nature?—l do not. In other words, if this plantation were allowed to go back to nature, you are of opinion that the beetle will take charge of the whole island? —It would, without any doubt. What will happen to this plantation, upon which you have spent fifty years of very good work, if your 145 black boys go and you cannot replace them with any other kind of indentured labour?—lt will be destroyed in a very short time. How long do you think it will take to destroy this plantation from the beetles and the weeds? —It could be entirely destroyed in about eight or ten years. If to-day the black boys went away and the plantation was not under control and no work was done for a year, it would take at least another five years to put the plantation back in the state in which it is to-day. If it was neglected for two years it would take another ten years to bring it back into condition again, and, of course, a great deal of expense would be entailed on the owners. It has been recommended that Javanese should be imported : have you had any experience of them?—l had a friend on another plantation who has told me that the Javanese are good workers. I have had no personal experience of them, and Ido not know whether you would be able to get them or not. Could you give us an approximate idea of the amount of money that has been spent on the improvement of the Mulifanua Estate? Mr.. Pattrick (Military Liquidator) : That information, together with full particulars as to the value of the estate, cost, of labour, and working-expenses, will be embodied in my report. Mr. G. J. Anderson : Do the black boys take up with Samoan women?— No. Do you think, if we succeed in importing Chinese labour, it would be any benefit to bring their women with them?— Very likely. The women could do easy work, such as cutting copra, like the black and Samoan women are doing. I think there would always be light work for the women to do. Mr. Luke : Do you think the half-caste Samoans would work on the plantations as labourers? —No. Mr. Witty: What is the average output per acre? —The output is from 1,1.50 to 1,200 tons. That is from 3,800 acres. Mr. Young : Have the black boys any vices? Mr. Pattrick : I think I would be speaking for Mr. Helg if I said they are natural and therefore they have some, but I am inclined to think they have not as many as we have. Mr. Young: Are there any vices indulged in here which interfere with their work? We are given to understand that the Chinese gamble so much that it interferes with their work? Mr. Helg : The black boys have no vices which interfere with their work. Mr. Young (to Mr. Helg) : Have the Samoans? —They do not work, at all —that is the trouble. Mr. Craigie : Could you give us any suggestion how indentured labour could be obviated ? Could you have a free market and employ whom you like and the labourers work for whom they like?—l do not know of any other suggestion. The existence of Samoan plantations depends on a supply of labour. Mr. Bartram: What is the rate of pay that the black boys get?—£2 a month and board and free lodging. . Mr. Pattrick: They are actually receiving £2 10s. : 10s. has been accruing to them from previous years. Mr. Bartr'am (to Mr. Helg): What are their hours of work?— From 6 to 11, and 12.30 to about 5 o'clock. Do they work by the day or do you give them tasks?—lt depends. When I think it is more suitable for the plantation I give them piecework, and contract work when I think that is more suitable. They have no choice in the matter?—No; I give them what I think is right. You say the black man is a better man than the Chinaman. Am Ito understand by that that he is more amenable to discipline?—l think so. He is more obedient and not so menacing as the Chinaman. If you gave him a task which he thought unfair he would not do it?— No. Mr. Anderson : Has any attempt been made at any time to keep down the weeds by machinery? Is that possible ?—lt is absolutely impossible. The whole area is too stony. Has any attempt ever been made to devise a machine to do it?—lt is a difficult work for the black boy to handle a knife without breaking it. Mr. S. G. Smith: If the whole plantation were in full bearing, at what would you estimate the output ?—I would estimate it at least as 2,000 tons—about double what it is now.

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Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : I understand that if the Chinese are dissatisfied they can appeal to the Consul ?—Yes. Is there any one to represent the black boys?— No. They can complain at headquarters in Apia if they are ill-treated on the plantation, by any white man. Mr. Luke : Can they appeal to the British Governor ?—They can. No obstacle is put in their way?— No. Mr. Witty : If they do ask for the protection, of the Consul, are they in any way punished for doing so?—No, not as far as I know. They are free to complain. Hon. Sir James Allen: Have you had any trouble with the black boys at any time?— Very little. They are obedient and, with very few exceptions, very good boys. Mr. Young : In the event of its being decided to subdivide this estate for the purposes of sale, would it be possible for a white man to take up a suitably sized section and cultivate and work it himself without outside labour and make a living from it? —I do not think so. From my experience no white man is able to work in Samoa unless he is in the shade. A wheelwright, or a blacksmith, or any worker like that might work in Samoa for a time, but not steadily. No white man, even with his family, would be able to keep 100 acres of coconuts in order and collect the crops and do the watering of the cattle. Taking this estate as we see it to-day, and assuming that it was subdivided, what would be the smallest area into which it could be suitably cut up for one man to live upon and make a fair living from, and how much labour would a man require to employ on his small holding?— 50 acres would do for a white man and his family if they were hardworking people, but nobody would be able to keep it up for four or five years with his wife here in Samoa working hard. They would have to send their wives to New Zealand to recover. Assuming that the white man with 50 acres requires to employ labour, how much labour will he need to keep his plantation clean and in order, without including his family at all, but assuming that he would oversee and supervise himself : how much labour would the 50-acre holding require?— About three men. Mr. Young : I presume he would make a living after he paid the three men?— Yes. I always assume the people work in the proper way. Mr. Witty: What area of land would be required for a returned soldier, for instance, who had no knowledge of the work? lam assuming he is given a plantation already under cultivation. How much could he manage?—l think, he could manage, on an average, not more than 10 acres. Hon. Sir James Allen: You impressed upon me in the car that it required a great deal of experience on the part of the manager to run even a copra-plantation successfully. Would you mind telling the members what you think about that?— When I took over the plantation eighteen years ago the weeds reached my shoulder on horseback. It took me ten years with the full amount of labour which the manager thought was necessary to work the plantation into a proper condition. In 1910 I went home on furlough for eight months, and another manager, a vice-manager, was put to run the plantation. When I left the plantation, was thoroughly clean, as you see it to-day. When I came back, after eight months' absence, it took me five years again to put it into the condition in which I left it. I want you to understand that a plantation like that can only be managed by an energetic man with a good knowledge of what is needed and experience from boyhood. If any manager comes here and he is not a capable man the plantation will go back. As I told you, we are about 170 boys short. You cannot expect the same work from 140 .as from 320. If there is not enough labour it means a tremendous increase in the growth of weeds. If a plantation is not kept in order each nut has to be searched for; but when it is like you see this plantation, the labourer simply walks along and finds the nuts and puts them into his basket. If a New-Zealander were to come down here with the idea of taking up, say, 100 acres of copra land, how long would it take him to manage it successfully ?—Sometimes it is not possible to put in a man with the knowledge and grip of a manager. I am assuming he is an ordinarily intelligent man with some knowledge of agriculture?—lf he were an intelligent man and a good supervisor, you might break him in to manage the place well in two years. Not less than a couple of years ?—No. Mr. Witty : Could not the income produced from this plantation be much increased by your having a better selection of cattle? —The question is one which is hard to answer. No doubt we could have a much better stock of cattle, but my plan was to get as many cattle as soon as I possibly could to work the plantation. We want a good strong type suitable for the tropics. Your cattle are not good enough. We want cattle from Ceylon and India. Mr. Holland : How many boys have you on the plantation?— One hundred and forty-five. How many are married ?—About fifty. How long have the others been here? —Their contract was for three years. They were to have been repatriated, but they were obliged to stay here during the war-time, and the shortest time is about eight years. What are the moral conditions? —Very good, I should think. The bulk of the men are not married? —No. Do they all lead celibate lives?— Yes. Are you sure of that —that they live lives apart altogether from women ?—Yes, I think so, more or less. They may have some Native women of which I do not know. The morals of the boys are good. May be one does not hear all that is going on. Either the man marries, or leads a celibate life, or an immoral life. These boys live and sleep together in the one hut ?—Yes. When you had the full number here, how many would be in one of those huts ?—According to the new regulations there would be about eight boys in each house.

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That would be four in each end. We called at a place just along here and they told us there were nineteen boys in one place?— There may have been four houses there. When you had the full number of boys employed, what was your biggest number ?—Three hundred and twenty. And how many huts did you have for the 320 ?—About fourteen houses. They were these big houses built for fifty men. Can you tell us the recruiting methods that were employed to get these boys m the early days and later—l mean the method by which they were got to come from the islands ?—They were recruited by the captain of the ship. In what way? —People went ashore and asked who would like to go as labourers to Samoa. And was there a contract signed ?—Yes, for three years. By the boys?— Yes. How did the boy sign ?—By making a mark. Have you got any copies of the contract ?—No. The boys were sent to me when they arrived in. Samoa —after a couple of days. You had nothing to do with the recruiting ?—No. A Solomon - Islander named Dobifel was questioned. Mr. Holland: How long have you been here? —I do not know. I have been a long time. Mr. Helg : I think he has been about nine years. Mr. Holland : I should like to know how you came to come here? —Captain Peters brought me. How were you got on to the ship ?—I liked the ship. I liked to come to Samoa. Have you ever been subjected to punishment? —No. Have your wages been stopped ? —I have been given money all the time. Are you due to be sent back? —Yes. Would you like to go back ?—Yes. Mr. Helg : They all like to go back to their places. Mr. Forbes : Would you like to come back here again J— Very likely. If a ship came, probably I should come back again. Mr. S. G. Smith : Are you married? —No. Visit to Langen's Plantation. Mr. Langen was questioned. Sir R. H. Rhodes : You say you have 150 acres under cocoa. How many Chinamen have you ?—Twenty-three. Is that sufficient for your requirements? —Not for the 150 acres. It is about half the number I need altogether. I want about ten more for the 150 acres. Mr. A. Hamilton: How are you able to get this Chinese labour when others are not able to do so ?—I flatter myself that I know the way to handle Chinese. I will always get Chinamen in some way, I think, if any one is getting them. I do not give them a specially easy time, but I follow their ways. They know they are not cheated for half a pound of rice. They work very steadily with me, and I never have any complaint. Ido not think there is any complaint in the Court records against myself or my boys. I do not pay higher wages than other employers, but I think I understand them. Mr. J. It. Hamilton: Are these Chinese here at liberty to go to any employer they like? — Decidedly. Mr. Holland: At the present moment? —No; they have to finish up their time first, which is at present two years. We had the half-yearly contract, and the effect of it, in my opinion, was that the whole standard of living of the boys was very much lowered. They have a lot of vegetable-gardens and poultry-farms, and a paddock for a horse. They will not go in for that sort of thing when you give them a half-year's contract. Does the law permit you to give them a half-year contract ?—Before we were forced to, but now two years is stipulated. I think it much for the benefit of both. Have you a copy of the contract?—l will try to find one. In the Chinese Commissioner's office you will get one. To tell you candidly, I never saw one myself. I never stick on any paragraph of a contract. If a Chinaman has a just complaint it is granted. But there is a signed contract between you and him?— Yes. As we came through the quarters there, somebody asked if a certain Chinaman was married, and your reply was, " Sometimes he is married, sometimes he is not. I do not know whether he is married now " ?—Exactly. • Would you mind telling us what that means?— The Chinaman is at liberty to do as he likes, just the same as we are. If we want to live with a woman some of us do, and some of us turn her away again and take another. That is just the position of Chinamen with Samoan girls. I think I am supposed by law to put a stop to it, but I do not think I have a legal right to do so. Mr. Potter : Have you any of them doing that ?—I think I have two. Out of ?—Twenty-three. Mr. Holland : The custom is for a girl to go and live with a Chinaman, and then if she does not suit him or he does not suit her they part, and he can take up another; is that what you mean ?—First of all, you will not get a Samoan girl here for money. You must be a decent fellow to get a Samoan girl. And then, generally, they stick well together. I have an old Chinese boy here. I dare say he is just as well married as lam myself, though he never went to any priest or Registrar. What is the largest number of men you have had here ? —Thirty-six, I think.

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Out of that number how many married according to Samoan custom?—I do not think there were many married in those days. They were young men—they did not know the language. When they stopped longer they got familiar : they became practically Natives. Mr. Potter : If they are here about three years they will not take up with a Samoan woman?- • They might then. In six years they probably would. Mr. Holland: Did any of your men who were repatriated leave wives behind here?—l really could not give an answer to that question. Sir R. H. Rhodes : But none of them took their wives to China with them?—No; I do not think they had any intention. 1 do not think any of my men were repatriated. I had a very small bill for repatriating Chinamen. Mr. Luke : What becomes of the Samoan wife and children if the Chinaman marries a Samoan according to Samoan custom and he goes to China? Is she a charge on the community?— That goes according to Samoan rule. If a woman gives birlh to a child and has no man to look after her she goes back to her relations. The communistic course is followed. Such a woman has to work, but there is no stigma on her or the child. She is not looked down upon ?—Not by any means. Mr. Horn : Do they marry again ?—Yes. Mr. Luke: Are your men working on the task system or on day work?— They are on daywork now. I change. I give them task work and I give them day work. One week it is one way and one week it is the other, generally; but it depends wholly on the class of work. What is the lowest number of hours the)- work?— They are supposed to work ten hours, but generally they are not ten hours in it. They are in their homes by the time the hour strikes, and sometimes they have half an hour's walk to the place where they work. In how many hours as a minimum can they complete a task? —If I am very foolish in giving them a contract they might be finished at 9 o'clock. Mr. Bartram : That seldom happens, I suppose?—lt happens sometimes. Mr. Luke: Take the average?—A neighbour gives tasks a good deal, and his boys are generally done by 2 or 3 o'clock. Mr. A. Hamilton : You look like a man who works, Mr. Langen : do you find it impossible for the white man to work here? —As you see, I do some little work, but I do not by any means do the work these boys are doing. There is one of them who suffered from consumption last year; he was spitting blood, lie swings an axe ten hours a day with pleasure. I could not do that. By the way, he is quite cured of his complaint. He gets down just as many trees as one of the big Samoans would. They swing the axe for ten minutes and then they are finished. Mr. S. G. Smith: What do the boys earn?—£3 a month, and 10s. for special food they may like to bnj. Rice they get free—between 1J lb. and 2 lb. a day. Mr. Bartram: You are higher than most people?—l know I am a bit higher than my neighbours. With wages at £3 a month, can you make your plantation a paying proposition? We have been told that with wages at £2 10s. it is impossible to make a plantation pay?—lt is a question of the return. If I had the return of some places which are not well managed I would have been bankrupt long ago. Can you make it pay on a £3-a-month basis? —I can make this place pay at present at £3 a month for wages, because the capital I invested here was invested with wages at 15s. a month. Furthermore, I can at present make both ends meet because the cocoa is in full bearing. If I get a set-back from canker I might be just on the verge of not paying my expenses, or I might even lose. The £3 per month will not allow of any hard luck such as a drop in the price of cocoa. It just gives me a breathing-time now when my place is in good order. I dare say this place is really in the best state at present. In two years' time it will not be so good. For development-work you would have to get the lower class of labour?— Decidedly. Mr. Wright: What is cocoa per ton now?—ln Apia it is £130 a ton, delivered to the merchant. What was it in pre-war times? —About £50 or £60 a ton. It must mean a much bigger profit to the planter now than when it was £50 a ton '! —I doubt it. Just compare the price of rice. Before the war you paid about £1 ss. a bag. Now it is £6 10s. and £7, and they are speaking of £8. That is the 200 lb. bag. Is not that the only item that has gone up ?—No. Take anything you have to buy : take horse-feed; take anything you like. Mr. T. W..Rhodes: They have not gone up in the same proportion?— But rice is the main item. I provide about f ton of rice every month here, and if it rises to five times the price that means something to us. Mr. Holland : With regard to these labourers, when they have finished their day's work are they free to go where they want? —Absolutely. Off the plantation ? Absolutely. When they have finished their task work they can go. When the hour strikes they can go. And they are the law about the watch, too. It gives them about three hours in the afternoon for themselves. Mr. Witty : Are the black boys or the Chinamen the better workers?—On a coconut-plantation I would take a black boy, but on this place a Chinaman. Mr. Sidey : Have you had any experience with half-castes?—As overseers, yes; but I do not think them suitable as overseers over Chinamen. How about half-caste Chinamen?— They are very few. I think, they are highly intelligent. The few we have are very active people. One of the drivers to-day is a half-caste Chinaman. I remember his father very well.

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Have you any idea what the Chinese do in their spare time?— They look after their gardens. They pay visits. To Sainoans?—No, amongst themselves chiefly, and, of course, they indulge in a bit of a gamble. 1 think they have quite a fair amount of their own work to do. Mr. Langen having retired, six Chinese labourers were questioned, through an interpreter. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : Will you please explain to them that we have come to inquire into the labour conditions, for their benefit and our own knowledge? Which one has been the longest here?— This one : No. 1744. How long has he been here? —Thirteen years. Mr. S. G. Smith : How many are married to Samoan women?— None of these. Mr. Holland : Have any of them wives in China?— Only one. Mr. S. G. Smith : How long has he been here?— Eleven or twelve years. What is his number ?—3217. Mr. Young :He is the one who was sick. When did he first get sick? —Six months ago. We were told he was sick twelve months ago and was spitting blood. Did he spit blood when he was in China ?—No; he was sick in this country. Can he chop wood ten hours a day?—He can. Does he like doing that work? —Yes. It agrees with his health?— Yes, it is of benefit to his health. Does he contribute to the support of his wife in China? —At present—not very sufficient. Mr. Potter: Has he any children in China?— No. Mr. Young : How much does he send a year?—He cannot say definitely; sometimes £2, sometimes £1, per month. Would he like to bring his wife to Samoa ?—He would, not like it at present. What is his objection at present to bringing his wife here? —He has no money at present. If he had money would he like his wife here? —Yes, he would like to bring her if he had Sufficient money. Mr. Anderson : With regard to the sleeping-quarters, I would like to ask if the Chinese prefer to be all in one house, as they are apparently here, or whether they would prefer to be distributed over more houses? —They like to live separately, one in a cubicle. Would they sooner build their own or live in the one house?— They would like to do it, but they have not got time. With regard to their surroundings, T should like to ask whether they would like better drainage where they wash themselves: whether they are satisfied with it; whether it is better here than it was in China? —There is enough water; they are quite satisfied. Mr. Sidey : Are they satisfied generally with their conditions, or have they any grievances? —Their general conditions are good, but the Samoans do wrong to them. Whenever the Chinese go out the Samoans will ask them for food, and if they will not give it them the Samoans will assault them. The Chinese have to go out sometimes to buy their food—to town or to somewhere else. Hon. Sir R. 11. Rhodes : Do the Samoans ill-treat them now ?—Yes. One of them was assaulted only two months ago —several of them were. Because they did not give the Samoans rice?— They asked for tobacco. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : Did they complain either to the Chinese Consul or to the Commissioner about this treatment? —They complained to the master, but not to the Commissioner or the Consul. Was the trouble not caused by their wanting to go with the Samoan women ?—No. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : Do they know the Consul is here to protect them?— They obstruct them in the road so they cannot get to the Consulate. Mr. Anderson : Are they better satisfied under the British Government and the British occupation than they were under the German Government?— The same; there is not much difference. Mr. Potter : Did they know there was a change of Government?— They know it. How much money would they get in China as compared with what they are getting here? — If they had to provide their own food at, £3 10s. a month they would get less than in China. Mr. Forbes : What would they work at in China?— Miscellaneous jobs. What would they get there?—lB dollars a month—Hong Kong dollars. Mr. Young: United States dollars or Mexican dollars? —Hong Kong money is the same as Mexican. Mr. Witty : How many hours a day do they work in China ? —Nine hours. Mr. Anderson : Did they thoroughly understand what they were coming to in Samoa when they were recruited in China ?—-They are only told to come here and work, but are not told of the sort of work. Mr. Wright : Were they told what pay they would get?— They were told 20 marks, German currency, gold, per month. Mr. Forbes : Do they want to go back to China when their time is up ?—lf they had about £15 they would go back. When they go back would they advise their friends that this is a good place to come to?— Yes. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : How long has this man (No. 3537) been here?— About seven years. What was the German mark worth seven years ago?—He did not know at that time, but he knows it now —25 cents. What wages did he receive when he first came here ?—2O marks. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : Would he like to remain on here in Samoa, or return to China?—lf he had about £15 he would go back.

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Mr. Horn: He has been here seven years? —Yes. Is he a married man —No. How much money has he sent to China during those seven years? —£15. Mr. Holland : How was the fact that they were wanted for Samoa brought under their notice when they were first recruited?— They noticed an advertisement in the newspaper. Did they engage through the Chinese Government at that time? —They thought they were engaged under the Chinese Government. Mr. Young: But were they engaged with the approval of the Chinese Government?— Yes, if they approved of them. It was an arrangement between the Chinese Government and the German Government at the time?—l think so. When they were engaged first their wages were £1 a month practically ?—2O marks. Did the wages go up under the Ordinance, or did the wages go up by reason of these men becoming free men and reindenturing themselves at a higher rate than the original arrangement provided for?— Because they had the right of reindenture, to find which master the}- wanted. Mr. Young : At that re-engagement was he a more proficient workman than when he came to the country at first, and would he be worth more money in consequence ?—Yes. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : Had he no increase in pay before his first term of indenture was up? —Not until the term expired. Mr. Holland : The point I want to get at is whether there was ever any change made in the wages by Ordinance or not, and I think his answer is that there was no increase made by Ordinance?— Not by Ordinance. Mr. Wright : Do they like the task system ?—Yes. Mr. Holland : When did his first contract expire?— The term was for three years. That would be four years ago, as he has been here seven years, and he has reindentured twice since the expiry of his first contract? —Six times. They were six-months contracts?— Yes. He started with £1 a month. What wages did lie get when he made his second contract at the end of the three years?—4s marks, or £2 ss. And he is getting £2 10s. now?—He is getting £3 10s. now; he has to provide his own food. Mr. Sidey : He does not pay for his rice?— The master provides them with rice, tea, and petroleum. All the other things they have to provide for themselves. Mr. Horn : Under his first indenture he had to be sent back free in the ship ?—Yes. How is he situated now supposing a ship were available : would he go back free or would he have to pay ?—lf their contract expires the master has to, pay their passage. Mr. Luke: He came out in the first place for three years; then he signed on for another period : would the employer be liable to send him back to China on the expiration of the second term ?—Yes. Mr. Holland : Only one of these men is married. Will you ask them if they have gone with Samoan women in the meantime or whether they have lived quite apart from them ?—They cannot speak Samoan. They have never mixed with the Samoan women. Mr. Young : Does he know of any China boys who, if they pay money to Samoan women, can get what they want? —They cannot say. have had no experience themselves. Mr. Reed: He spoke of their doing "miscellaneous jobs" in China: will he particularize? —They mean work as farmers—rural workers. A further Chinese labourer (No. 1416) was questioned through the Chinese interpreter. Mr. Reed : How much money was he given on the first indenture? —15 marks a month. How much is he getting to-day?—£s a month. How long has he been here?— Thirteen or fourteen years. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : Why is he getting so much more money than when he first came?— Because he is a mechanic and is more proficient. • Was he a mechanic when he came at first?—He signed a contract as a mechanic, but he could not find his job when he got here. Mr. Sidey : Is he married ?—He has a wife in Samoa, but not one in China. Did he-have to pay the father before he got married ?—No. Did he have any marriage ceremony?— No. Has he any children ?—No. If he goes back to China will he leave his wife here? —If he has money he would take his wife back to China. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : How long has he been married? —About two years. Mr. Sidey: Has he any complaint to make?—He signed a contract as a mechanic, but now he has not got the job of mechanic. He has to chop firewood and do some other hard work. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : What sort of mechanic is ho?—ln connection with the cocoa-machines. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : Does he not attend to that machine when it is working?—He is not told to do so now. Is there another mechanic, then, here working?— Yes, another Chinaman is doing the work now. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes: Is he getting more wages now than he would as a mechanic? —He is worth more than the £5. When his work was changed did he complain to the Commissioner ?—No. Why did he not ?—He was too far away. Mr. T. W. Rhodes : Has this other Chinaman, whom we have not questioned yet, any complaints?— No. What money does he receive?—£3 10s.

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Visit to Mr. H. J. Moors's Plantation, at Fasitooufa. In reply jto questions it was stated that Mr. Cobcroft visits the plantation once a month. Apart from that it is left in the hands of a Chinese manager, who receives £15 a month. The men receive £3 12s. They do task work. Each man looks after 20 acres. If his 20 acres are clean he can take day work at 3s. a day extra. There is a Chinese woman with a Chinese baby on the plantation, but no Samoan women.

Apia, 10th March, 1920. MEETING OF HON. SIR JAMES ALLEN AND MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT OF NEW ZEALAND WITH CITIZENS' COMMITTEE. The following representations by the Citizens' Committee were submitted in pamphlet form for the consideration of the Parliamentary Party : — Samoa's Problems : A Series of Reports compiled by the Citizens' Committee appointed by the Citizens of British Western Samoa at a Public Meeting held in the Market Hall, Apia, on the 26th January, 1920, in view of the Forthcoming Visit of the New Zealand Parliamentary Party. To Sir James Allen, Hon. Minister of Defence, and Hon. Members of the New Zealand Parliament. We beg to submit the following reports for your consideration. Citizens' Committee. Labour and Agriculture. Gentlemen, — Wo have been asked to gather all the possible information and data that is within our power, and to write such reports as we consider would be required in order to bring most forcibly before you how vitally necessary to the future prosperity of the colony the supply of indentured labour is. We therefore beg to place before you, for your consideration, the following figures and facts relative to the position. We thoroughly realize the importance of the task that has been set us, and how much depends on our ability to place the position before you in such a clear, full, and concise manner that you will have no difficulty in quickly grasping the substance of our arguments and be able to follow our reasoning with a clear understanding. We are fully alive to the fact that exaggeration or rash statements, given through insufficient consideration of the situation, would have the effect of doing harm. We are therefore confining our report to statements of facts, which have been only arrived at after the most careful inquiry and full consideration. We hope to prove to you that upon your deliberations depends the future of the colony —whether it is to bo an asset to the Government you represent or a useless burden on the New Zealand taxpayer. We hope to prove to you that without an adequate supply of economic labour it will be impossible for the planters to carry on, with the inevitable result that the plantations will be forced to close down. The position we face to-day is—more labour or bankruptcy. It rests with you to make or mar us. The contrast between the condition of Samoa when the islands were first occupied by the New Zealand troops and their condition to-day is very marked, but not particularly gratifying. By dint of never relaxing industry and sheer persevoranec some of us have managed to keep our heads above water, but we can honestly assure you it has been a most strenuous tight, carried on with but little assistance from the Government and none from the bank. We will not detain you with any further preface, but proceed at once to the consideration of the points which we have chosen as the ground of our report, and in which you are especially interested. Analysis of Lands. (Extracted from report to Trades Commissioner Dalton, by Norman H. Macdonald, Commissioner of Lands.) ui'OLtT. Acres. (1.) Total Native lands .. .. .. .. .. .. 186,500 (2.) Total D.H. and P.G. .. .. .. .. .. .. 56,000 (3.) Total other German lands .. .. .. .. .. 16,000 (4.) Total British and others .. .. .. .. .. 16,500 275,000 Which may be classified as under : — (1.) First-class lands for settlement, 10,000 acres; second-class lands for settlement, 20,000 acres; waste or inferior lands, 56,500 acres ; available for Native requirements, 100,000 acres : total, 186,500 acres. (2.) Under coconuts, &c., D.H. and P.G., 9,000 acres; virgin bush, first-class lands, 15,000 acres; virgin bush, second-class lands, 15,000 acres ; virgin bush in waste or interior, 17,000 : total, 56,000 acres. (3.) Under coconuts, cocoa, rubber, &c., 8,000 acres; first-class lands for settlement (fifty to sixty Germans a-e interested), 8,000 acres : total, 16,000 acres. (4.) Held by mission societies, 4,500 acres; under cultivation (British companies), 1,500 acres; first-class land available for settlement, 4,500 acres; held as plantations partially developed (some twenty Britishers, including one or two other nationals, being interested), 6,000 acres : total, 16,500 acres. SAVAII Acres. (1.) Total. Native lands .. .. .. .. .. . . 400,000 (2.) Total D.H. and P.G. .. .. .. .. .. .. 20,000 (3.) Total other German owners .. .. .. .. .. 17,500 (4.) Total British (mainly) .. .. .. .. .. 12,500 450,000 (1.) First-class lands for settlement, 50,000 acres; second-class lands for settlement, 50,000 acres ; waste lands, 100,000 acres ; available for Native requirements, 200,000 acres : total, 400,000 acres. (2.) First-class lands for settlement, 5,000 acres ; second-class lands for settlement, 15,000 acres : total, 20,000 acres. (3.) Under coconuts, &c., 1,000 acres ; waste or inferior lands, 6,500 acres ; second-class lands, 10,000 acres : total, 17,500 acres. (1.) Under cultivation, 1,000 acres; waste or inferior lands, 6,000 acres; suitable for settlement, 6,500 acres: total, 12,500 acres. Summarizing : Available for settlement in Upolo—First-class lands, 37,000 acres; second-class lands, 35,000 acres : total, 72,000 acres. Available for settlement in Savaii—First-class lands, 55,000 acres ; second-class lands, 81,000 acres: total, 136,000 acres. In showing 200,000 acres available for Nativo requirements in Savaii and but 100,000 for Upotu, our figures may seem inconsistent, but the fact of the possibility of volcanic disturbances in Savaii have been taken into consideration.

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UPOLU AND SAVAII. Acres. (1.) Total Native lands .. .. .. .. .. .. 580,500 (2.) Total D.H. and P.G. .. .. .. .. .. 76,000 (3.) Total other German lands .. .. .. .. .. 33,500 (4.) Total British and others (British mainly) .. .. .. 29,000 725,000 Classified as follows :— (1.) First-class lands for settlement, 60,000 acres; second-class lands for settlement, 70 000 acres; waste or inferior lands, 156 000 acres ; available for Native requirements, 300,000 acres : total, 586,000 acres. (2.) Under coconut, &c, for D.H. and P.G., 9,000 acres ; virgin bush land, 20,000 acres ; second-class land, 30,000 acres ; waster or inferior, 17,000 acres : total, 76,000 acres. (3.) Under coconuts, rubber, &c., 9,000 acres; first-class lands for settlement (fifty to sixty Germans are interested), 8,000 acres ; second-class lands for settlement, 10,000 acres ; waste or inferior lands, 6,500 acres ; total, 33,500 acres. (4.) Held by mission societies, 4,500 acres; under cultivation (British and others), 2,500 acres; first-class available for settlement, 11,000 acres; held as plantations partially developed (some twenty Britishers including one or two other nationals, being interested), 6,000 acres ; waste lands, 5,000 acres : total, 29,000 acres. The total amount of land available for settlement is given as —First-class, 92,500 acres; second-class, 116,500 acres. We show this acreage for your information, but make no comments. The total Native lands are 586,500 acres. We estimate the area under cultivation to be 70,000 acres, and the yearly output 7,000 tons. The population of Samoa is made up as follows: Men, 7,723; women, 9,623; children, 13,290: total, 30,636. Allowing two thirds as working population, this would be 20,424 —equal to, say, one unit to 342 acres ; which, when taken into consideration with the fact that foodstuffs have to be planted and maintained, houses to be built and repaired, canoes to be built, roads to be formed and maintained, beetle-searching carried out, and the thousand-and-one other things necessary to the upkeep of a community and its plantations should be more than sufficient to show you that as a source of labour-supply for European plantations they are not to be considered. We would also lay great stress upon the fact that with the present price of copra a Native and his wife can (if they are in want of money), by cutting out 400 lb. of dry copra—an easy task —earn in one day more than the planters could afford to pay them in a month. The next area for our consideration is that held by foreigners, and is given as 138,500 acres, made up as follows : — 20,500 acres under cultivation, 6,000 acres partly developed, 39,000 acres first-class reserve, 40,000 acres second-class reserve, 4,500 acres held by mission societies, 28,000 acres waste or inferior lands. The amount of the capital concerned must be considerable. The Government, through the D.H. and P.G., is directly interested in 76,000 acres. It is in order to safeguard this area and capital, in which you, as representatives of the New Zealand Government, have a large interest, that we, as representing the planters of Samoa—who, you must remember, are settled in the country, and in many cases married into the country, and therefore have the interests and welfare of the country at heart—make our earnest appeal to you to strain every effort to procure for us from some source the necessary labour we require in order to protect our interests and the interests of the colony.

Port of Apia, Samoa. — Return of Shipping for the Calendar Year 1919.

These figures are given in order to remind you of the significance and the necessity and importance of labour to our merchants. The Union Steamship Company bring round each trip about ninety indentured Fijian labourers to assist in discharging their vessel; they also have been assisting the Administration of late by placing some of this labour in the lighters. The wages paid these men are £3 per month and food. Our own merchants are entirely concerned with the local labour-supply, their requirements being in the vicinity of one hundred men.

Comparative Return of Principal Exports, the Produce of the Territory.

Steam. Sail. Total. Sail. Num- Net ber. Tonnage. Tons Cargo. I I " ' [ Nam- : Net Tons Num- Net Tons her. Tonnage. Cargo. ber. Tonnage. | OargO, Sritish 'oreign INW/! iRD. 33 19,273 23 2,830 56 22,103 5,046 2,047 : 33 19,273 | 5,04 21 12,170 1,516 j 44 15,000 3,56 21 12,170 1,516 j 77 34,273 J 8,60 19,273 15,000 5,046 3,563 Hi ).'{ >9 Grand total.. 7,093 1,516 77 34,273 8,609 Iritish 'oreign 33 24 19,279 2,903 OUT' 1,187 1,276 ABI). I 24 13,758 [33 15,886 | 48 19,279 16,661 1,187 17,162 Grand total.. 57 22,182 2,463 24 13,758 15,886 81 35,940 18,349

1910. 1011. 1012. 1013. 1914. Article. Tons. Value. Tons. Value. Tons. Value. No llgures. Tons. Value. £ 498 27,753 9,010 i 148,564 632 10,088 2 £ 38,508 179,145 646 723 11,017 24 £ 41,982 203,496 5,538 £ 1,033 62,477 8,573 146,627 41 10,446 Joooa . !opra lubber Article. ioir>. Tons. Value. Tons. 1! 916. 1017. 1918. 1010. Value. Tons. Value. Tons. Value. Value. ?. Tons. Value. Cocoa Copra Rubber .. 879 11,974 67 £ 59,322 187,429 13,907 929 7,544 62 £ £ 63,970 1,207 69,549 143,245 ; 8,992 230,971 20,228 j 70 14,097 £ 795 I 54,169 9,370 I 426,576 17 i 2,850 I £ 820 ! 81,110 16,359 ' 449,917 Besides which small quantities of papaii ., pineapples, and kava have been exported.

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Port of Apia, Samoa. — Return of Exports for the Calendar Year 1919.

The following table shows the amount of revenue the Government have derived from a purely agricultural source through the export duty: —

This substantial addition to the Government revenue was collected at a time when we were labouring under great difficulties. Owing to the war the cost of provisions and labour had increased enormously, and money was tight. We were fighting with all the resources at our disposal the, dreaded rhinoceros-beetle and cocoa-canker, which were ravaging our trees and threatening our very existence. We were put to considerable expense by the Government, who in the first instance treated us with scant consideration. Our Chinese hospital, which had been erected in a central position for the convenience of the plantations, and furnished with the medicines and equipment necessary for our purpose at considerable expense, was closed by the Government, and we were forced to send our men to the Government hospital, which was not conveniently situated. Again, our labour barracks, which had previously been considered to fulfill all requirements, were found unsuitable for the accommodation of our labour force, and we were compelled to make additions or erect new buildings ; this in spite of the fact that the health of our men had been universally good, and building-material was scarce and the price inflated. To add to our difficulties, the forced repatriation of our labour at the prohibitive cost we were called upon to pay was almost the last straw. Many of us, after having at great expense rebuilt or erected new buildings in conformation with the new regulations, found, on account of the forced repatriation, it was impossible to utilize them fully. Was this the time to tax us ? To the causes we have enumerated and the labour shortage we mainly attribute the bankruptcy of some of our largest companies. And we have been requested to petition you as to the possibility of the return of at least a part of the prohibitive repatriation foes which we were called upon to pay. In support of our statement we give the following information, obtained from the manager of one of our largest companies, showing how, through these causes, they have been reduced from the employment in 1.915 of 294 labourers to 12 labourers in 1920; and an output of 69,383 lb. of rubber in 1917 to nil in 1919; and an output of 138 tons 10 owt. 12 lb. of cocoa in 1916 to 20 odd tons in 1919. Following are particulars of the Upolu Rubber and Cacao Estates, Limited : —

Upolu Rubber and Cacao Estates (Limited). — Tanumapua and Alisa Estates. — Labour Particulars and Crop Returns from 1915 to 1919. Total area of properties, 2,510 acres; area under cultivation, 1,103 acres.

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Country to which exported. llate of Duty. Quantity. i Article. Value. Total Value. Duty. Cocoa Australia New Zealand United States America £2 per ton.. 401 tons 217 „ 202 „ £ 39,489 22,503 19,118 £ £ s. d. 81,110 1,040 14 2 Copra United States America. 10s. per ton 820 tons 16,356 tons 449,917 449,917 8,178 5 11 Hides Australia New Zealand Free 900 tons 250 ., 840 200 1,040 Kava 1,150 tons United States America Free 125 125 2,587 1b. Papain Canada United States America Free 332 lb. 261 „ 175 120 295 Pineapples (preserved) United States America Free 593 lb. 40 do/,. 13 13 — 532,500 532,500 9,819 0 1

1916 1917 1918 1919 Totals Year. Cocoa-beans (C2 per Ton). £ s. d. 1.466 9 10 2.413 13 1 1,589 11 2 1,640 14 2 7,110 8 3 Copra. Rubber (IDs. per Ton). (IJd. per Pound). £ s. d. £ s. d. 2,950 16 10 667 0 5 4,496 0 4 977 13 6 4,684 19 2 233 10 2 8,178 5 11 Copra. (IDs. per Ton). £ s. d. 2,950 16 10 4,496 0 I 4,684 19 2 8.178 5 11 Rubber (IJd. per Pom £ x. 667 0 977 13 233 10 Hid). (I. 5 0 2 i Totai. £ s. d. 5,084 7 1 7,887 6 11 6,508 0 6 9,819 0 1 I r 20,310 2 3 1,878 4 I 29,298 14 7

Year. Number of Coolies on the Estates. Coolie Unit Cost per Day Cost per Acre, Old (includes Uepatria- ('lean Weeding, tion Charges). ~T~ s. d. s. d. 19 2 1 2 (i{ 2 4 2 10? 2 8k .Rubber Crop. Cocoa Crop. lb Tons ewt. lb. 41 129 SO 3 87 53'496 138 10 12 09! 383 80 9 8r > Cost of Repatriation to China per Coolie. 915 . . .916 .. 917 .. .918 . . 294 206 207 140 5 5| 9 3J 34,913 43 9 2 £ s. a. (18/8/15) 9 16 6 (10/9/16) 13 2 8 (10/2/17) 16 10 0 f (22/1/18) 20 9 3 )(20/9/18) 24 0 0 Repatriation duo on 3/1/19 and 31/7/19, but postponed to 1920, when coolies had changed employers. 919 .. 920 .. 31 12 * J No clean weeding Nono 20 9 92 4 I * This docs not include repatru iation charges. itriation charges.

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Duty paid on rubber and cocoa from April, 1916, to June, 1918: Rubber, £819 11s. 8d.; cocoa, £331 14s. 1d.: total, £1,151 5s. 9d. No duty paid previous to the occupation. Several of our largest companies have been forced either into bankruptcy or to suspend operations.

List of Plantations and Numbers of Coolies employed in 1914 and 1919.

This information has been compiled for your guidance wheh visiting the different centres. Our estimate to bring 100 acres of virgin bush into bearing cocoa is as follows :— £ s. d. Purchase of 100 acres at £4 10s. .. .. .. .. .. . . 450 0 0 Survey and Court fees .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 20 0 0 Clearing and burning at £10 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1,000 0 0 Fifteen Chinese at £6 per month for four years .. .. .. .. .. 4,320 0 0 Cacao-dryer, tools, and dwellinghouses .. .. .. .. .. .. 1,000 0 0 Manager, £300 per annum for four years .. . . .. .. . . 1,200 0 0 Total .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 7,990 0 0 Cost per aero at end of four years, £79 18s. Yearly expenditure will be —Twenty coolies, £1,440; manager's salary, £300; tools, wagons, kc, £200: total £1,940. Return will average 4 ewt. of cacao per acre—Say, 20 tons at £100 = £2,000 ; showing a profit of £60 per annum, and allowing nothing for interest on nearly £8,000 capital invested, and allowing nothing for losses due to disease, &c., nor provision for health purposes or depreciation. Disposition of Labour. Disposition of labour is given as follows: Chinese —Total coolies (1914), 2,200; deaths, ordinary, 77; deaths epidemic, 31 ; repatriated to date, 1,254; balance in Samoa (1920), 838.

Plantation. Situation. Approximate Area Number of Coolies under Cultivation, employed in 1014. Present, Number of Coolies. Keese, H. Perking, Mrs. Catholic Mission D.H. and P.C. D.S.G. D.S.G. D.S.G. Frantz, J. .. Goebel, W. .. Goebel, C. J. Government Grevel, Dr. W. Grevel, Dr. W. Haaben, E. Harman, F... Hufnagel Haensell, G. Jaeger, F. .. Langen, E. A. Langen, E. A. Magia PI. Ges. Moors, H. J. Moors, H. J. Moors, H. J. Moors, H. J. Mugele, C. .. Peemueller, B. Puipaa PI. .. Papaseea, PL Kerslako and R. Rothchild (store) Schroeder, P. L. Schwalger's .. Schoeneich .. Dietzch Avele Letogo Moamoa Acres. 90 40 30 9,000 8 II) 8 802 7 4 4 430 Tapatapao Aleisa Talimatau Falelauniu Aleisa Fasitoouto Vailima Faleula Savaii Vaiula Malua Lotopa Saleimoa Alafua Tuvao Lata, Savaii Magia Ululoloa Papal oloa Fasitoouta Palauli Lotopa Ululoloa Puipaa Papaseea Tuana'i . . Samatau Falemauga Saleimoa Aleisa Aleisa Aleisa Utualii Tafaigata Tafua Siusega Tuvao Solaua Tuanaimato Falelauniu Lesea Tanumapua Aleisa Moamoa Siusega Fasitoouta Papaseea 1 J 683 184 110 180 30 100 230 450 100 40 135 90 300 200 400 80 60 132 400 50 115 260 300 50 60 100 33 20 20 78 54 125 110 130 1 1 154 24 16 16 14 20 8 15 4 32 12 30 15 80 120 4 16 36 100 40 8 12 15 6 5 10 6 8 4 7 4 23 33 55 5 1 25 27 4 10 14 o 1 28 8 3 20 9 15 Spemann Stowers, A.. . Suhren, G. .. Suhren, R. .. Suhren and Meyer S.P.G. S.K.C. S.S.G. S.S.G. Trevirnanus, 0. U.R. and C.E. U.R. and C.E. Walter, Mrs. Wetzell's Estate Zieschank, Dr. Kionka 18 2 3 3 15 4 35 22 30 1,300 420 420 194 590 ; ? 512J 355 60 86 29 152 150 | 78 15 \ * 240 140 36 16 3 40 II 5

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Solomon Islanders —Total (1914), 850; deaths, ordinary, 75; deaths, epidemic, 93; repatriated to date, 277; balance in Samoa, 405. The balance of these Solomon Islanders, we understand, are awaiting repatriation. The following table shows dates and costs of repatriation : —

The above tremendous cost of repatriating these 1,254 coolies should not have been incurred. We feel quite sure that a large majority of the coolies would have been prepared under the circumstances to sign fresh indentures for a further period of three years, or until the termination of the war. The limiting of the period for reindenture to six months has caused dissatisfaction to the coolies as well as the farmer. In some cases practically no opportunity was given the coolie to reindenture, the employer being therefore forced to pay without having any option in the matter. This can bo definitely proved from records in the Chinese Commissioner's office. Chinese Crimes. Particulars of Chinese crimes punished by imprisonment of three months or over, since 1915, as supplied by the Chinese Commissioner : No. 1296 —seven years, rape ; No. 2896 —seven years, rape ; No. 2752 —ten years, breaking and entering; No. 1608 —seven years, breaking and entering; No. 3127 —two years, assault; No. 2741—tw0 years, theft; No. 2749 —two years theft; No, 2083 —three years, breaking and entering; No. 1443—tw0 years, breaking and entering; No. 2960—0ne year, knowingly helping thieves; No. 1616—nine months, knowingly helping thieves ; No. 3141 —two years, knowingly helping thieves; No. 2258 —six months, assault on police; No. 360 —two years, inflicting bodily harm ; No. 1578—six months, assault; No. 2226 —one year, theft; No. 2638—five years, inflicting bodily harm ; No. 1183 —one year, assault; No. 3237 —six months, assault; No. 2559 —one year, assault; No. 3634— two years, assault; No. 3643 —one year, assault; No. 1837 —six months, theft; No. 1779 —six months, bodily harm ; No. 941 —three months, theft. A Plea for Indentured Labour. (The following article, written by .Mr. Alan Cobcroft, an acknowledged authority on the subject, appeared in the Samoa Tin>es in September, 1919). Are the Chinese a menace to the future of Samoa ? Are we to recruit more of these men for our agricultural pursuits or not ? If not, is it proposed to replace them with other indentured labour less inimical to the interests of Samoa, or are we to understand that the idea of indentured labour in any shape or form will be repugnant to our Mandatory '? These are the questions the many thousands of shareholders and other people interested in tropical agriculture in Samoa would like settled. If it is decided that the interests of Samoa will be the best served by maintaining a plentiful supply of economic labour, then, can we get a better class of labourer than the Chinaman —one who is more amenable to argument, or who conforms to the existing laws and regulations of the country more readily : personally, I doubt it. And, let us heed, the evil we know is better than that we do not know. Chinese indentured labour was first introduced to Samoa in 1902 by the Planters' Association, it having, even at that early stage, been found, by costly experience, impossible to depend upon the local labour-supply, and that in order to be in a position to compete with other tropical countries more favourably situated an adequate supply of cheap labour was essential. Under sanction and supervision of the Chinese Government, the men were recruited through Messrs. Wondt and Co., recruiting agents, Hong Kong. The method of recruiting was simply to make known that a certain number of labourers were required for Samoa. The intending recruits volunteered. The conditions of the agreements under which they were to indenture were thoroughly explained to them, and they either accepted and signed on, or not, as they thought fit. If they elected to sign on they were medically examined before being allowed to indenture. When it is remembered that the population of China is over four hundred millions, or something like ninety-nine persons to the square mile, it will be readily understood that it was not difficult to recruit the few hundreds required for Samoa. Having succeeded in recruiting the necessary number, they were brought to Hong Kong, where they were medically examined a,nd embarked upon a specially fitted transport for Samoa. During the trip they were cared for by a doctor specially engaged for that purpose. Upon arrival at, their destination they were allotted to the different planters, as requisitioned, taken to their respective plantations, and housed in hutments specially erected and passed by the Government doctor for that particular purpose. During their three years' indenture they were only required to perform the different work necessary to the running of the estate. They have as an overseer one of their own nationality. If it is found necessary to punish any of the; men they are sent to the Chinese Commissioner with a note setting out the charge against them. The charge is carefully investigated, and, if substantiated, the man, should it be his first offence, is admonished ; if it is other than a first offence he is oned a few shillings, commensurate to the charge. On the other hand, if the labourer has been unjustly treated, or has any grievance, he has the same privilege of placing his case before his Commissioner, and is sure of impartial justice. During his indenture the man has proper medical treatment, being treated at, the Government hospital by a Government doctor. The fact that at the time of writing there are some eight hundred odd indentured Chinamen in Samoa, whose original indenture expired years ago, and that each and every one of these men has had numerous opportunities—had he so desired - of returning to China, but instead preferred to be reindentured, is in itself sufficient guarantee of the fair and equitable treatment they have received as indentured immigrants. As a citizen the Chinaman has, I contend, been a quiet, law-abiding subject, keeping much to himself and interfering very little with the community at large. The immediate seriousness of the planting position in Samoa cannot possibly be exaggerated or underestimated. It is imperative that labour of some sort should be secured, otherwise it will be absolutely impossible to carry on. Three large companies have already gone into bankruptcy, representing a capital of approximately £120,000. Another, with a capital of £90,000 and an area of 1,200 acres, is on its last legs. IMost plantations are working short-handed, unable in many cases to even harvest their crops, while weeding and many other important requirements have to be shelved. The outlook is indeed alarming, and, unless steps are taken at once, hopeless ! JS fleet of forced Repatriation.—The policy pursued by the Administration (acting under instructions, 1 understand, from the Home Government) of forcing the planters to repatriate those labourers whose contracts expired during the occupation, and who desired to return'to China, and of refusing to sanction the recruiting of labour to replace these men, has had a disastrous effect upon tropical agriculture in Samoa. As each transport was despatched the demand for indentured labour quickly overran the supply, and labour getting scarcer and scarcer each year. Planters, in order

Steamship. Sailed. Number of Coolies. Cost. Cost per Head. Upolu Shanghai Atua Taiyuen Taiyuen 8 August, 1915 . . 9 September, 1916 2 February, 1917 22 January, 1918 .. 19 September, 1918 320 231 61 380 262 £ s. d. 3,144 13 7 3,033 13 9 1,006 10 2 7,774 14 6 6,122 13 7 £ s. d. 9 16 0 13 2 8 16 10 0 20 9 3 20 7 4 1,254

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to secure the minimum amount of help necessary to the running of their estates were competed to bid against each other, thus gradually forcing the cost of indentured labour to the present almost prohibitive prices. Again, in order to secure transports to convey the time-expired men back to China special inducements had to be offered, and, instead of £2 10s. previously paid, the planters were compelled to pay £22 10s. per head, and that within a certain time, or as warned by a notice issued from the Chinese Commissioner's office, be mulcted of 10 per cent. Native Plantations. —-The nuts are mainly growing in the immediate vicinity of the coast, and very few are planted inland. They are planted without care and at no regular intervals —probably well over 150 trees to the acre. Many trees, owing to overcrowding, do not produce. The coconut is the Natives' main article of trade ; without it he would indeed bo a very poor man. The forced repatriation of indentured, labour must undoubtedly have some effect upon these plantations. It is not necessary to be a planter of experience to know that the supply of local labour is not, sufficient to keep the European estates going, even if the companies could afford to pay the high wages which would be demanded by these people if they had no competition. Now, if the few remaining labourers are repatriated and we are not allowed to introduce others, what will the planters' position be and what will that of tho Native be ? Granted that the local labour-supply is insufficient, nevertheless planters will have to draw upon it. The old trouble of demand and supply will affect wages to such an extent that the planters must inevitably be forced, through the shortage and impossible cost of labour, to abandon their holdings. Before this is brought about, however, the Native, attracted by the high wages offering, will have been induced to neglect his own properties, so that a stage certainly will be reached when both European and Native holdings will be in a very bad condition. To remedy this the Native will bo unable to hire out his services, as he will bo fully occupied in attending to his own lands, and with no available labour to care for the European properties they must revert to jungle. Every one knows what that means—ideal breeding-nurseries for the dreaded rhinoceros-beetle, which with no one to disturb it will breed in thousands, and after eating out the palms in the back-plantation districts will come down in droves to attack the Native coastal plantations. Position of Beetle before Epidemic. —There is not the slightest doubt that prior to the epidemic the beetle was fairly held ; many trees that had suffered severely through the attacks of the beetle had recovered, and altogether the outlook for coconut-planters was most encouraging. Every credit should be given to the Department of Agriculture and Administration generally for having brought about through their untiring efforts this most desirable situation. They spent thousands of pounds combating this pest. Competitions with generous prizes were started among the Natives for the greatest number of beetles, larvae, and eggs destroyed. Inspectors were appointed and posted in different districts to check the returns. The whole Native male population of Samoa, together with all indentured labour, had to turn out each Monday forenoon to search, for beetles. A cinematograph was imported and showed round the islands on other than searching-days, at which a charge of so-many beetles was made for admission. The Natives were forced to clean some 17,()00 acres of anything likely to form a breeding-place for beetle. This, then, was the position before the influenza struck Samoa. Beetle during Epidemic. —lt will be readily admitted by the people who arc in a position to judge that up till the time the epidemic struck Samoa we were moro than holding the beetle in cheek. Now, what happened ? During the awful weeks of influenza—for practically three months -no searching was carried out either by Samoans or Chinese, with tho result that the beetle undisturbed has flourished, and signs may be noticed by intelligent observers which warn us that once more we will have to buckle down to a very strenous fight if we are to save our trees and regain the position we held before tho epidemic. Let us now review our position and find out what force we have at our disposal for the fight. In proportion to her population Samoa probably suffered as heavily as any other country in the world. As far as we can ascertain tho death-roll is as follows: Upolu—Men, 2,079 women, 1,720; children 1,027 (21 per cent.). Savaai — Men, 1,186; women, 984; children, 546 (20 per cent.). Totals—Men, 3,265 ; women, 2,704 ; children, 1,574 ; (19 per cent.). 7,543 deaths —19 per cent, of the total, population. The majority of people who died were middle-aged, or, in other words, the working population. Old people and children practically escaped. Now, unfortunately for the future of Samoa, at least 75 per cent, of the most influential matait, or head men, died. With her population depleted to such an extent, with at least two-thirds of her working population gone, with the majority of her trained officials dead, three months' back work to catch up, with young, newly appointed officials who do not thoroughly realize the danger threatening the very life of Samoa, is Samoa in a position to carry on the war successfully against the beefle ? The population is made up as follows : Men, 7,723 ; women, 9,(123 ; children, 13,290. Where are our workers and fighters to come from '! Is it not obvious that, with their own area to look after, it is out of all question that they should furnish labour for the European plantations ? Then what is to be the result if indentured labour is to be barred. Are the thousands of acres now under European cultivation to be allowed to go back to jungle as nurseries for the beetles and every other kind of disease ? Tho whole copra life of Samoa is seriously threatened. Is the outside capital already invested in Samoa to be sacrificed ? Is no inducement to be held out in order to encourage new capital into the country and thus increase our revenue ? In other words, are we, instead of pursuing a vigorous go-ahead policy for the future benefit of the country and people, to stagnate and drift back '! Unless indentured labour or labour of some kind is brought into the country we are faced with bankruptcy. It is only by a great increase in the working population of Samoa that she has any chance of coping with the rhinocerosbeetle. I have endeavoured to compile this report to show how vitally necessary to the future welfare of Samoa indentured labour is. The question of the type of labour possible to be secured is a difficult, one. Wo have not yet heard for certain whether Captain Carter, who was despatched to China, has been successful in his mission. There are rumours that he has not. In our opinion he should not have had any difficulty if he had gone to the right place in securing all the Chinese coolies required at an outside wage of £1 10s. per month. Failing this, it would appear that our only other hope of securing sufficient labour is from the Dutch East Indies, where there are teeming millions of population ready and willing to be employed, providing the Dutch Government's permission is secured to their introduction as indentured coolies. Previous to the war, negotiations were conducted between the German and Dutch Governments for the importation of Javanese labour, and the planters pray you to despatch a mission of some one entirely cognisant of local affairs to continue the negotiations. We consider it possible that some arrangement might be come to whereby some of the many surplus acres of Samoa might be given to Javanese settlers in return for their work, or that they might be induced to work here for a share of the crops of tho estate. The following report has been received from a German planter who lived there some years : — " I will give you some particulars about my experience in Sumatra during six years' work on plantations with Javanese and Chinese labour. I left tho Dutch East Indies in 1906, and there may have been some changes since then. I saw Javanese labour, men and women, on rubber, tobacco, and coffee plantations ; we had in Sumatra only indentured labour. As indentured labour you can get men and women married or single as required. They will find each other and live together. The Javanese works at least as well as the Chinese nowadays, and will be cheaper. In any case, Javanese labourers are far easier to satisfy than Chinese. Rice, dry fish, and coconut-oil will be their staple food, and if sometimes fresh meat is added they will be very satisfied. In Sumatra these people supplied their own food and got only wages which were during my stay very low —men 6 guilder per month, and women 3| guilder. (A guilder represents about Is. Bd. in English currency.) If they reindentured after three years they got up to 9or 10 guilder per man and sto 7 guilder for women. The labour on coffee-plantations is similar to that with cocoa : cleaning

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of the soil, pruning of trees, and harvesting are practically the same. 'Hie harvesting of cocoa is heavier, and the men could be used for this. Curing cocoa and weeding could be done by the women and children only. Tho proportion in Sumatra of labour is one man to five women. The main thing for a Javanese is water. He uses plenty of water because he is particularly clean in everything. The Javanese are far easier to treat with than Chinese. He still has respect for the white race ; by good treatment they will do everything and stick absolutely to their master. On most plantations drivers, watchmen, boys, and cooks are all Javanese. Now as to the location from where to take Javanese. The farther from Batavia and Soerabaya the better. The Batavians —the so-called Sudanese —are too far advanced in culture and want any amount of privileges, but the people far in the interior are very harmless and will learn quickly. The Malay language is understood by all of them, although some differ in dialects, and white people can learn it quickly. Should you have any special questions, I should be pleased to answer them." Wo consider that five thousand permanent labourers would ultimately be required to carry on the present areas under cultivation and necessary development on these areas, for the work of tho merchants, as servants, and for public works. Fresh numbers would have to be added as business increased and new settlers arrived to take up virgin bush. Wo would like to point out that unless the right to indenture this amount of labour were guaranteed, and for a stated term, no new capital could be induced to come into the colony. We have just heard that a large number of Javanese have boon imported to Noumea by the French for work there. For publio works, where higher wages could be paid, we consider that Niueans could be procured on contract from Niue, with the permission of the Minister of External Affairs. Despite Colonel Logan's original idea that Natives could be trained to work on the plantations, we have no hesitation in saying, and have shown you by figures, that for many years to come their numbers will only be sufficient to look after the acreage they already have under cultivation. The necessity for the improvement of roads in the plantation area is apparent, as we hope to show you. Two hundred labourers could bo used on this work alone. The planters also pray you that you will consider some scheme of advances to settlers. Our only bank, the Bank of Now Zealand, owing to the unsettled state of tho planting industry, will not advance a penny on the most valuable plantation property, thus putting tho plantation-owners frequently in difficulty between crops and when the trees are nearly coming into fruition. Should tho labour difficulty bo satisfactorily settled, in the future when the country is opened out more by roads and the operations of largo companies, no doubt fit men of energy and resource will be able, as in other colonies, to carve out homes for themselves, but the wherewithal for them to exist must first of all be created. If the present prices of copra and cacao do not materially lower, then many thousands of acres arc awaiting only tho necessary road access and capital to bring them into remunerative investments ; but we consider that no ono would be willing to finance any concern if a bank is not willing to do so. We would not be doing our duty to those we represent if we did not point out as strongly as we are able that the planters, owing to adverse conditions, are. barely existing. None of them, except the D.H. and P.G., have taken out of the country a penny profit. Any returns they may have had from their properties have been reinvested in the way of development of fresh areas for cultivation. The planters bog you to appoint a local Secretary of Labour who will deal with all labour questions arising, also a scientist who will advise thorn in tho matter of fertilizing, &c. There are so many things in connection with the Government of this colony that vitally affect the interests and welfare of the planters, and in the immediate future there are likely to crop up so many important points in connection with the planting industry, in the discussion and final decision of which we consider we should have a voice, and upon which we are of opinion the planters' experience and advice would be necessary and invaluable to the Government, and in order to protect our interests, we think it incumbent upon the Government to elect at least two planters to act on the Administrator's Council. When you come down to the people who count, the real stakeholders in tho country, you will find the planters' interests astonishingly large, and so great in proportion to other interests that tho influence the laws and Government of the country have over us is a life-and-death one, and we put it to you, gentlemen, if, in our position, when our very existence is concerned, you do not think our request for direct representation a right and reasonable one. With at least two seats we would in a measure feel that our interests were safeguarded, and our association would have representatives who would keep us an, fait with tho doings of tho Council, and through whom we could express tho views of our association. In conclusion, gentlemen, we trust we have put before you sufficient data and arguments to make you realize tho gravity of the position, the seriousness of the matter on which you have to adjudicate, and how insolubly the future prosperity of the country is connected with labour and agriculture, and repeat to you the resolution which was carried unanimously by a representative meeting of planters : " Tho planters desire to submit to the new Civil Administration the promise of loyal support by putting all their experience and energy unreservedly to the common task of making Samoa prosperous." Municipality fob Apia. The Samoa Constitution Order states (paragraph 61) ■' It shall not be lawful or competent by any ordinance." (Clauses (d)) "to establish any form of municipal or local government possessed of rating, taxing, or legislative authority." In direct contradiction to clause (d) of this paragraph, we respectfully pray that the Constitution should particularly provide for the establishment of a municipality for Apia. In the treaty of 1889 between the three Powers over Samoan affairs a municipality was established in Apia, and if one was ever required it is certainly needed now. The town of Apia is the only European settlement in Samoa, and, apart from the fact that the residents should be allowed some form of local government over affairs, a Municipal Council would relieve tho Administration of quite a lot of responsibility if the roads, public works, &c., within the area were turned over to it; tho water scheme and sanitation within the boundaries of tho municipality would also with advantage be passed over to the Municipal Council. The boundaries of the old municipality may be somewhat revised to fill the requirements of the suggested one. The plantation district as now existing was not there when the old borough was formed. The municipality taking over large expenditure from the Administration would require to be vested with powers for rating, taxing, &c, within the area. Native villages within the said municipality should have all their rights reserved to them, and would not be interfered with by the Municipal Council except in regard to sanitation and roads. Natives would not be taxed by the Municipal Council except for what is actually served to them at their own request in the form of water, light, &c. If a municipality were established in Apia it is needless to say that the Municipal Council would be eleoted by the European residents, and would thus have greater weight and powers than a Chamber of Commerce, but should not prevent the establishment of a Chamber of Commerce later if one were deemed necessary. Besides relieving the Administration of a lot of local affairs appertaining to the European community and the town of Apia, the Municipal Council may also be of great assistance to the Administrator and tho Legislative Council in shaping the general policy for Samoa, whenever occasion arises. Had a Municipal Council for Apia been in existence now, many of the complex problems which the present committee had to deal with for representation to the Parliamentary Party from New Zealand would have devolved on it, and matters made much easier for the residents in this as well as all other points of public interest to the residents of Apia. Every Native village has a Village Council to deal with local affairs, and if old Native customs are to be observed they will retain their rights ; therefore it is the opinion of the residents that the time has arrived when they should have some form of local government, and a municipality for Apia would just meet the ease. We are informed that Colonel Logan has already submitted a scheme to the New Zealand authorities concerning a proposed municipality for Apia, with plans and all the necessary data complete. The said plan covers only about half the area of the old municipality, but the property within the area is assessed at about a quarter of a million sterling. A small tax on property alone would make an ample basis for funds. We sincerely trust that tho New Zealand Government will take into serious consideration the conceding of our request for a sadly felt want.

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A Free Press.—Section 102 of Samoa Constitution Order. We beg to submit our report on the subject, " A Free Press." We find there is a unanimous desire on the part of tho public that there should be a free Press in Samoa, and that the present censorship over the Samoa -Times should be removed, particularly so since the military occupation has practically ceased to exist. In war-time it is fully recognized that there is a certain justification for a military censorship of the Press, which, as far as Samoa is concerned, has been accepted without demur, but now that the war is long since over, such censorship, on whatever grounds, is wholly unnecessary. We are led to understand from interviews with the directors of the Samoa Times that at a meeting of the directors and the Administrator (Colonel Tate), at which Judge Watson was present, held on the 23rd December, in the course of a discussion on the censorship, the Administrator stated that it may be necessary to continue the censorship of the paper under Civil Administration. We are of opinion that if tho censorship is continued, as at present, under Civil Administration, then such censorship would be unprecedented in the British Empire. It is felt generally that if tho censorship is continued it must bo detrimental to the best interests of the country and no less to the Administration. It is a recognised fact throughout the Empire, and upheld by high authorities, that any interference with tho time-honoured liberties of the Press, provided that Press is guided with discretion, is a great mistake. Even if its criticisms on Government are harsh, it is often fruitful of a great deal of good. We learn from correspondence which has taken place between the Administration and the Samoa Times that the Administration does not object to fair criticism of the Government, but it does object to criticisms tending to disaffection or sedition. The directors of the Samoa Times are desirous of conducting their journal in the entire interests of Samoa, and that being the case there is no fear of any criticisms appearing in its columns tending to either disaffection or sedition. But at the same time we would like to point out that extracts which have been culled from Now Zealand newspapers for publication in the Samoa, Times have been censored within the past few months and not allowed to appear; yet those New Zealand papers are allowed to come into Samoa and be spread broadcast throughout the community. Some of those newspapers are among tho foremost in New Zealand. We learn also that the Administration was offered by tin; directors "of the Samoa Times that if anything critical of tho Administration appeared in tho paper it could have the option of adding an explanatory note to such criticism, thereby giving both sides a fair opportunity of stating the case clearly. This offer was turned down. One other matter of considerable moment we have discovered. One of the reasons why a good deal of criticism of tho Administration appears in the New Zealand Press emanates from local residents —Press correspondents—who feel that however justified they may be in their criticism, as the Samoa Times is censored they must seek another source of ventilation i.e., tho New Zealand Press. If the censorship were removed it would create a more harmonious relationship between the Administration and the community. It is felt that the censorship of the local paper is a usurpation of the public's right of a free Press. Furthermore, the censorship creates a wide feeling of suspicion among the community who are suspicious of the Government. We are forced to the belief, after the fullest deliberation, that there is no reason whatever why the local newspaper should not enjoy the same privileges as other newspapers throughout the Empire. In dealing with this question it is necessary to introduce here section 102 of the Samoa Constitution Order, which would operate over the Samoa Times. Section 102 is as follows : — " (1.) A ' seditious intention ' is an intention to excite disaffection against His Majesty or against the Parliament or Government of the United Kingdom, or against the Parliament or Government of New Zealand, or against the Government of Samoa, or to excite such hostility or ill-will between different classes of tho inhabitants of Samoa as may be injurious to the public welfare, or to excite, encourage, or procure lawlessness, violence, or disorder in Samoa, or Constitution of Samoa. " (2.) ' Seditious words ' are words expressive of a seditious intention. " (3.) A ' seditious libel ' is a libel expressive of a seditious intention. '' (4.) A ' seditious conspiracy ' is an agreement between two or more persons to carry into execution a seditious condition. " (5.) Every one is liablo to two yoars' imprisonment who speaks any seditious words or publishes a seditious libel, or is a party to a seditious conspiracy." The Committee has ascertained that a seditious clause of praotioally the same wording as shown above is embodied in tho Constitution of every British possession. In the present instance the reading of section 102, with a few slight alterations, is practically a facsimile of section 118 of the New Zealand Crimes Act, 1908. The crux of the question is of course the interpretation put upon the section by the local authorities, and from a verbal statement made by the Judge of the District Court before the directors of the Samoa Times the measure will bo rigidly adhered to in the event of newspaper criticism that may be adjudged destructive of the Government's authority. Colonel Tate stated quite explicitly that section 102 was inserted in the Samoa Constitution Order to operate specially over Samoa; and yet we learn that such a section is embodied, as stated heretofore, in the laws of all British possessions. Such a section operates in New Zealand, and it appears that a liberal construction is placed upon it by tho authorities. If the interpretation as given by Judge Watson is correct, then it is apparent that the Samoa Times will not have the same liberties as the New Zealand Press. Indeed, portions of articles concerning Samoa culled for publication from tho foremost New Zealand newspapers have been censored out, suggesting that such articles tended to disaffection. Thus it is obvious that a rigid adherence is given to section 102, thereby placing the Samoa Times at a great disadvantage to its New Zealand contemporaries working under a similar law. It is apparent that it is a matter of interpretation. It is fully recognised that such a section is necessary, but in so far as Samoa is concerned all that.is asked for is that the section be given a liberal and broad-minded construction. In compiling this report wo are quite cognisant of the fact that the population of Samoa is greatly Native and requires delieato administration. The directors of the Samoa Times are fully alive to this fact. In purely Native affairs the company is prepared at all times to seek the advice of the Administration. The directors do not desire to have matters affecting the Natives discussed or touched upon in the paper. The Samoa Times is primarily published in the interests of the European community. That being so, is it not feasible that the Administration should seek tho assistance of the newspaper in such a cause ? In this connection we feel sure the directors would be favourably disposed. At present it appears as though " the big stick "is being held over the Samoa Times where there is no occasion for it. The co-operation of the Press and Administration should work hand, in glove —such as has existed under the present Acting-Administrator, Major-General Sir Alfred Robin —and which is done in other countries. If such an understanding could be brought about there will be no occasion for the citing of section 102, nor even for the exercising of the censorship. In conclusion, we cannot help thinking, after taking everything into consideration, that there is a lack of confidence between the Administration and the newspaper, or vice versa. Education in Samoa. (By Rev. W. E. Clarke, London Missionary Society.) In view of the intention of the New Zealand Government to take over the work of education in Samoa, I have been deputed by the committee appointed by the citizens' meeting to lay before the Parliamentary Representatives a few particulars concerning the existing system of education in these islands. The education of the Samoan people has hitherto devolved entirely upon the various missionary societies represented here, the existing Government schools providing for about one hundred and fifty children only. The Roman Catholics and the Wesleyans have, roughly, about five thousand school-children. lam including in these figures the scholars of the excellent schools of the Marist Brothers in Apia and the Sisters' School at Sogi. The Mormons have also a few schools, but their numbers are small.

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The London Mission, exclusive of its High School at Leulumoega, the Girls' School at Papauta, and the Pastors College at Malua, have an attendance of some eight thousand children in their village schools in Samoa. It will thus be seen that this society is responsible for the education of about four-fifths of the Samoans ; and as the other societies have largely followed the methods of the L.MS., it will perhaps be most useful for the purpose of your inquiry to briefly outline the L.M.S. system. It has to be borne in mind that the work of the society is primarily of a religious character, and that while it has sought to do tho best possible for the secular education of the people, that work has necessarily held a subordinate position, for our school-teachers are also our village pastors. While saying this the L.M.S. can assert, without boasting, that they have achieved considerable success in the work of education, and that their village children in this respect will boar favourable comparison even with the village schools of New Zealand, always bearing in mind their many limitations. Having given the Samoans a written language and a literature, the educational problem which confronted the early missionaries, and which still confronts us to-day, is how most effectually to reach the great body of the Samoan people, scattered as they are in many small villages along the coast-line, with the means of intercommunication poor and limited. They decided that the only effectual means would be to train a Native ministry, to live the village life, and to give these men an education fitted to make them not only evangelists, but also teachers in the schools. The institution at Malua was tho outcome of that decision. It was started exactly seventy-Bix years ago, on very simple lines ; but the experiment proved successful, and it has now developed into an organized and comprehensive scheme of work. Every village in Samoa has now its native-trained pastor, who is also the village schoolmaster : and although the standard of education falls below that in the schools of New Zealand, it has been, up till now, quite adequate to the needs of the villagers. Probably not 1 per cent, of the Samoans are unable to read and write, and the children of these village schools are enabled, before they leave them, to reach a standard about equal to the Fourth Standard in the New Zealand schools. A syllabus for the year is printed and circulated throughout Samoa ; the pastors' schools are examined at tho end of the school year, and it is expected that every child shall secure a minimum of 50 per cent, of marks in each subject in which it is taught. Tho examination is held by the English missionary in charge of each particular district, and the results are carefully tabulated and announced at a public meeting of villagers in each examination centre. There is keen rivalry between the villages, end the pastor who fails to maintain the standard of the school is a- marked man. In connection with these schools there is attached to each mission station a district school. This school is taught by a Native master, who has no ministerial charge, and is under the immediate charge of the English missionary. It is known as the faawatani school, and is a higher-grade school for the more ambitious youths of the village schools. For the most part these lads ar" candidates for the High School at Leulumoega, and all prepare for tho entrance examination there. At Leulumoega a three-yoars training is given in a sort of arts course for those who are thinking of entering the college at Malua. In connection with the Leulumoega School there is a school of carpentry, and the object is to turn out youths from this school fitted for office work or artisan work, as the case may be. Students for Malua on leaving Leulumoega must pass an entrance examination, and on admission are put through a five-years course of training to fit them as pastors and teachers. It will be seen that the village schoolmaster of the L.M.S. undergoes a course of training extending over eight years to fit him for his work. Leulumoega students aie all single men, but Malua men are encouraged to marry in their second year of tuition, so that their young wives may attend the classes given by tho lady missionaries and so be fitted to be useful helpers to their husbands, both in the work of the church and in the school. All the village schools are mixed schools, the gills for the most part being boarders in the pastors' family. The higher education of the girls proved a rather difficult problem at the outset, but we have a large boarding-school at Papauta for the girls of Upolu and Savaii, accommodating 120 girls. It is intended at an early date to erect a similar school on Savaii; and there is already an excellent school for the girls of Tutuila, at Atauloma. These schools are officered by European ladies, assisted by the Native mistresses.The outbreak of war hung up for the time a largely extended scheme of higher education which the L.M.S. have had in view for some years, and for which they have been accumulating a sinking fund. The project is to centralize the higher education at Malua, and to form there an island university with a divinity school, so that competent pastors and schoolmasters may be there trained, that youths may bo educated for government and commercial offices, and that tho more ambitious may be equipped for a medical course, or other of the professions, at one of the Dominion universities. Tho Citizens Committee deputed me to interview the representatives of the various societies working in It may be useful to this parliamentary assembly to briefly recount their views : — The Rev. Bishop Darnand, of the Roman Catholic Church, accorded me a long and courteous interview. Summed up in a few words, His Lordship deprecated Government interference. The Roman Catholics would endeavour to conform to the standard of education required by the Government, and would welcome any financial assistance to enable them to improve their educational work ; but the Church desired to educate her children by her own teachers and in her own way. To quote his own words, His Lordship desired for the Roman Catholics liberty and freedom. The Rev. Mr. Shinkfield, the Chairman of the Wesleyan Mission, had loft Samoa before this committee was formed, but he had already been in correspondence with Rev. A. Hough, the principal of the Malua Institution, and had interviewed him on the subject. Mr. Hough has informed me of the purport of Mr. Shinkfield's views, and has handed to me the correspondence. Mr. Shinkfield informs us that the Wesleyans are opposed to Government control of their schools, on the grounds both of efficiency and public economy. He points out in his correspondence that the Government in Fiji have left the schools in the hands of the missions, and that the result from every point of view has been admirable. He thinks that the interests both of the Samoans, as also of the Government, will bo best served by leaving the work of education in the hands of the missionaries. I regret that I was unable to obtain an interview with the leader of the Mormon Mission. He was absent from home on the two occasions on which I called, and my own subsequent absence from Apia prevented an interview. The Director of Education called upon Mr. Hough at Malua, before leaving Samoa, and roughly outlined the details of his suggested scheme. The impression Mr. Hough obtained was that the Government propose to begin by erecting five central boarding schools on Upolu, and three on Savaii. These schools to be staffed by Europeans with Native assistants, and the scholars to be picked youths from the existing mission schools. The teaching to be secular and undenominational. The nature of the religious teaching to be imparted and the process of the selection of these youths did not transpire. In fulfilment of the duty entrusted to me by the Citizens' Committee I waited upon His Excellency General Robin, who was good enough to accord me an interview, but could afford me no information. Officially he knew nothing beyond the fact that the Government will ultimately undertake the entire work of education. He remarked that whatever scheme the Director of Education had evolved it was not yet that of the Government. Whatever scheme was elaborated would have to be first discussed by the Advisory Council. He recommended the citizens if they had any ideas on the subject to submit them to the meeting of Parliamentarians. The opinion of tho Citizens' Committee on learning the foregoing information was strongly opposed to any Government interference in the work of education in Samoa. They regard tho scheme set, forth by the, Director of Education as crude and unsatisfactory, and an unnecessary interference with the work being successfully accomplished by the various missions. They view with dismay the unnecessary expenditure of public, money, especially in view of the discouraging experiments the Government lias already made in the matter of education, and the pressing need for reform, and expenditure in so many directions. The Citizens' Committee are of opinion that the educational need of Samoa to-day is a High School in Apia for the children of the Europeans and half-castes, and that the efforts of the, Government at this juncture should bo limited to the establishment of such a school.

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It will be asked, what is the point of view of the London Missionary Society, which is responsible for the education of the majority of the children concerned ? I reply, first, that the L.M.S. welcome anything that makes for the good of Samoa and the welfare of its people. That is our business here. The L.M.S. feel, as I have already pointed out, that the time has arrived for a forward movement in the work of education of our Samoan people. They are rapidly getting civilized. Tho old communistic life is passing. The influenza epidemic marked a crisis in the lifo of Samoa. The old leaders and chiefs whose counsel and leadership formerly controlled Samoa wore nearly all swept away ; the young chiefs and matai are not only destitute of power but destitute of influence. The new Constitution, moreover, avowedly aims at the destruction of Samoa as a self-governing community. The only hope for the preservation of the Samoan race as a nation lies in education. Tho idea is prevalent with quite a number of New-Zoalanders amongst us that tho mission of the Samoan is to become a hewer of wood, a drawer of water, and a plantation labourer for tho benefit of the white man. Men who reason thus know nothing of the genius of the Samoan character, and entirely underestimate their capabilities and their ideals. The Samoan is proud and ambitious, and keenly alive to his future possibilities. A fair share of his land has been providentially spared to him out of the European plunder of past years, and, thank God, cannot bo diverted from him for some years to come. We welcome any educational scheme that will meantime fit him to cultivate his own land to the best advantage, either by his own labour or labour which he employs, and which will prepare him to become a useful citizen of the Empire. It seems to us that an education that will enable him to tako a part in European commerce and civilization, to benefit by European literature, and to understand and live up to the idoal of European Christianity must certainly be worth while. We remember, too, that New Zealand has a Mandate in relation to Samoa, and that therefore it is " up to her " to do something for the intellectual and moral betterment of the people over whom she has jurisdiction. If New Zealand can take up the work which our mission has done with limited resources and with only a moral control, and can organize an educational scheme better and more efficient than ours, wo shall welcome the assistance and do all we can in support. The question is, can she ? One thing is certain, and that is that the Government will be well advised in this matter to consult the representatives of missions before embarking on this costly and difficult enterprise. The London Missionary Society in Samoa has not hitherto been overwhelmed by tho consideration or the courtesy of the Government, but it is safe to say that even the immature scheme outlined by the 'Director of Education can nover sucossf ully come to birth without tho co-operation of this society. I have already shown our willingness to assist in any well-organized and practicable scheme. The Advisory Council, however well intentioned, will know very little of the practical difficulties in educating this Native race, and in the nature of things will not be an authority on the work of education. As the scheme outlined to us by the Director of Education is, on the testimony of General Robin, only in process of incubation, we have not attempted any criticism. We await the matured scheme ; at present it amounts to little more than the substitution of a white teacher in the existing district (faamasani) schools. We feel bound to add that the attempts so far at Government education are not very encouraging, and fully warrant tho citizens' fear of enormous expense with very inadequate results, and their contention, and the contention of all the other missionary societies, that the work could be done infinitely better and at much smaller cost by the existing agencies if encouraged and helped by a Government subsidy based on results. Finances of Samoa. In approaohing this very big subject it is not the general wish of the residents to carp and complain about what has been done under military rule in Samoa for the past five years ; not to pick holes in, or point out, the apparent present overstaffing and cost of some of the Departments—matters that should rather be left to the careful consideration of our future Administrator and his advisers ; but to go generally into the future policy as indicated by tho several actions already taken, and by those we hear are projected, in connection with civil administration in Samoa, and which actions and projected actions up to date have given us, as citizens and taxpayers, cause for vory grave concern. Taking first the statistics for as far back as possible, from available records, we find the following : By treaty between the three Powers, Western Samoa was ceded to Germany in 1900, after a long series of wars which terminated shortly before annexation. The first clear year of the German Administration (1901) showed a gross revenue of £14,250, which had to meet an expenditure of £24,700, which expenditure was largely for reconstruction. The revenue increased until by 1911 it had reached the total sum of £41,350, and surpluses were already shown since 1903. Imperial donations started from tho very first year (1901), £8,500, tho largest being in 1903, £13,000 ; and these Imperial donations ceased in 1908. In 1910 Samoa started to contribute to the expenses of the Samoa branch of the German Colonial Office. The occupying Forces arrived here in August, 1914, and the first statement of revenue and expenditure issued by the Administration reveals tho fact that from September, 1914, to the 31st March, 1915, the revenue was £29,015, which, with the money taken over from the German Administration, made a total of £43,456, from which a balance of £13,711, cash in hand at Treasury, was carried forward to the new financial year which opened Ist April, 1915. In 1915-16 tho total revenue amounted to £68,663. English currency replaced the German early that year, and to meet currency notes issued to the amount of £53,000 a large sum was put in investment, and the year closed with a Treasury balance of £2,664 in hand. Tho revenue of 1916-17 amounted to £74,596, and by 1918-19 it had reached the gratifying total of £88,295, with an expenditure of £89,778. It will be seen that in seventeen years the revenue of Samoa has increased more than sixfold, and during the British Administration it has increased by about 30 per cont., and wo feel, certain that under Civil Government and normal conditions the total should soon exceed £100,000. We might mention here that export taxes levied since the advent of military occupation, on copra and cocoa, assisted our revenue in 1918-19 by £6,500. Through the newspapers of New Zealand we first learned of the formation and probable cost of the Samoan Constabulary, and as far as could be estimated tho annual cost of salaries and allowances, housing of the Force and keep of horses, &c., would approximate £30,000 per annum, and which cost, in the absence of information to the contrary, we feared would bo a direct charge on our revenue. Since tho arrival of the Force in Samoa it has been verbally stated that the cost of same will not be a charge on our finances at all ; but in view of the reported address by Sir James Allen to the Force, just prior to its departure from New Zealand, we were fully justified in thinking that its maintenance was a part and parcel of the future cost of civil administration in Samoa. Sir James Allen is reported as follows :— " In the course of a speech to the men Sir James said he thought they knew the Samoan belonged to the same race as the Maoris, the Polynesian race, and. in many respects wore like the Maori people, proud and dignified. Thoy had a special duty towards them, because this was tho first time they were taking over the civil administration of Samoa. Since it was captured in 1914 Samoa had been under military occupation. Now that was being changed. The Constabulary were the first evidence of the great change that was being made. " The Samoans," continued tho Minister, " wero a peculiar people, but they would learn to know them better after they had been there some time. They had a great responsibility towards them, and in that they were responsible to the League of Nations, to whom they had to report every year. The League of Nations would watch them very closely. It was their first experiment in government beyond their own shores. They were told that they could not do it, and they wanted to prove that they could do it with success. " Sir James said he wished to point out that the men on parade as constabulary would be a most important factor in the administration of Samoa. They were going as the representatives of the British race to bo the trustees of the Natives, to maintain justice in all times and difficulties. They would come closely into contact with the Samoan people. He was not so much concerned about the whites as about the Natives, and he appealed to them to carry out their duties with dignity, calmly and firmly. The Natives respected a dignified man. They should always be dignified. He wanted to see them a fine upstanding body of men, typical of the British race and the best Now Zealand could produce. If they did that they would help the Now Zealand Government very materially in laying the foundations of

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civilization there Whatever representations they had to make should bo made to the Administrator, and they would, always receive favourable consideration. They were going from New Zealand with a very special mission. " My message to you is this, concluded Sir James : I look to you specially to uphold the honour of New Zealand and lay the foundation of civil administration there with great success. " He wished them a pleasant voyage, and hoped the people of New Zealand, when they welcomed them back, would be able to say ' Well done.' " Major General Robin also addressed the men. He wished them, as " the first act in civil administration," every success, and themselves individually every success also. We think, after reading that reported speech, we cannot be blamed for feeling that £30,000 of the revenue of Samoa was being ruthlessly wasted, as no normal mind with any experionco in the affairs of Samoa under civil administration could sanction such an excessive and unwarranted expenditure out of a known revenue of £88,295, and which revenue for 1918-19 was exceeded by expenditure by £1,500. This enormous expenditure, added to the loss in revenue to follow the issue of Proclamation 65 —some £4,000 per annum—was, we contend, sufficient to make the minds of residents very uneasy when contemplating what further possible acts might take place under the new order of rule. Regarding projected expenditure, we are very alarmed to hear of a proposed expenditure totalling, according to report, between two and throo hundred thousand pounds sterling, and can only hope that not only will very grave consideration be given by New Zealand before finally consenting to the expenditure of such large amounts, but that such consent be backed up by the very best expert evidence New Zealand can procure, under the different proposed headings of expenditure. For instance, we hear of a proposed expenditure of £20,000 for ships' moorings for our harbour, and £85,000 for roads, being only part of the public-works proposed vote, and a very heavy expenditure for buildings and salaries under the head of " Education," and further heavy expenditure in connection with the long-talkcd-of water-supply. We are not for a moment suggesting that under each and every head mentioned there should not be a considerable expenditure, but what we maintain is that before this small community becomes pledged to so large a programme of expenditure it is only reasonable that the proposals of the local Administration should bear tho heat of the closest expert scrutiny. As far as we as citizens can learn in respect to the Mandate and proposed Constitution, New Zealand becomes responsible for any deficit in the cost of governing Samoa, also that she has the right to make advances for public works, &c, and to charge interest upon the same, and take security over such loans, and also to make certain payments on account of expenditure in Samoa, out of the New Zealand public revenues. This being so, we would greatly appreciate, if it can be given, information regarding the final disposal of'any deficit paid—whether it becomes the subject of a loan chargeable with interest, and" repayable in the thirty-years period provided in the proposed Constitution, or from future surpluses of revenue in Samoa ; what is the nature of the security to be taken ; and are the allocations from tho New Zealand revenue free-will offerings, or do they also later become converted into loans or a public debt on Samoa, for which we, the taxable residents, become responsible ? These and other matters that will no doubt arise during your control of Samoa arc of very keen interest to the residents, who, after all, are not, as popularly depicted by the visiting novelist, dissolute beachcombers and degenerates, but keen agricultural, pastoral, and commercial people, mostly with every stake they have in tho world firmly planted in Samoa, and whom New Zealand can very easily hold to herself by open, fair-minded rule and dealings, and whose good will is every whit as essential to a successful administration as the good will of tho Native race which so greatly outnumbers us. But to secure this confidence of the Europeans the " Hush " and " Shrouded in mystery " policy of the past five years must be totally eradicated or dropped overboard. Given labour for cultivation as required, capital will come in. Given wise rule, sane expenditure, and tactful handling of many complex Native and European matters that will undoubtedly arise from time to time, Samoa has a future second to none in the South Pacific ; given normal seasons, her exports should almost invariably exceed her imports, which places her in the favoured position desired of all countries, and makes her finance easy and successful; and it is with a whole-hearted desire to assist New Zealand towards successful control, and to protect ourselves as well, that we have approached you, stating our fears, and praying that it is not yet too late to amend some of the proposed acts of expenditure. Leoislative Council. Tho Samoa Constitution Order states (paragraph 48) :—. " The Legislative Council shall consist of— " (a.) Official members (not less than four in number), being the holders for the time being of such offices in tho Samoan Public Service as the Governor-General from time to time appoints as entitling the holders thereof to sit in the Legislative Council: " (b.) Unofficial members (not more in number than the official members), being such other persons (if any) as the Governor-General appoints to hold office during his pleasure as members of the Legislative Council." We interpret these clauses to mean that the Legislative Council may be complete without any unofficial members; that there is a minimum of four official members gives no guarantee that tho latter may ever be equal in number to the former ; that unofficial members, instead of being elected by the people whom they are supposed to represont, only hold office at the pleasure of the Governor-General of New Zealand. Wo now respectfully request: Unofficial members be elected by the people and not nominated; and that the unofficial members should in number equal tho official members, tho Administrator or Chairman reserving the right of a castimg vote. One of the principal reasons for desiring elected unofficial members is to prevent the anomaly in Samoa of taxation without representation, which would be the result if the Legislative Council were all nominatod. We do not know of a single instance where a nominated Council has proved satisfactory to the public. Wo feel sure that whoever is nominated would have preferred accepting office on the voice of the people. Cost of Samoa Constabulary. Some two months ago a strong Force of picked officers and men arrived from New Zealand to act as police, consisting of four officers, five_sergeants, and forty-eight constables, and the military garrison was, as far as Samoa was concerned, disbanded from the date of the arrival of the constabulary. From information very kindly supplied by the Inspector-General of the Samoan Constabulary we find that the approximate amount of salaries and allowances for the present Force is £18,500 per annum, and the amount of the proposed vote for buildings and housing of the Force is unknown; also that forty horses in all are employed by the Constabulary. Beyond this information we have to fall back on the newspapers of New Zealand for the knowledge that it was originally intended to send down a total Force of seventy-one men. We arc; unable to givo exact figures, but it is very generally admitted that had tho original number been sent and a proper housing scheme undertaken (as about six-sevenths of the strength are reported to be married, and some with considerable families), the estimated cost would approach £30,000 per annum—a rather alarming total for the simple policing of Samoa. We are now very pleased to be verbally advised by Sir Alfred Robin, the Acting-Administrator, that it is not contemplated the balance of the Force will come to Samoa, also that the cost of the body now here will not be a charge on the finances of Samoa, and, further, that the men now here will not remain long in Samoa as constables. This is very satisfactory information, as we feel that a constabulary of this nature, besides not being warranted, might at any moment, quite unintentionally, cause friction between the Europeans and Samoans, mainly through want of knowledge on the part of the Force of Samoan customs, traditions, and etiquette, and which friction or trouble would reflect on New Zealand generally, and particularly on those directly responsible for the sending of the men to Samoa ; also the cost, even of the present Force, would go a long way towards crippling our finances.

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We would like it very clearly understood at this point, and in any subsequent remarks that may be made, that we. have nothing but the highest opinion of the officers and men who compose the Force now in Samoa, and, as we are assured that they will not remain long in Samoa as constables, we would freely and gladly welcome them one and all as citizens, as we consider they would be a very creditable addition to our small community. In stating that such a strong and expensive Force is not warranted, we wish to point out that even in the very disturbed periods of Samoan wars the lives, though not always the unprotected property, of Europeans were never seriously endangered, except in cases where certain Europeans took active sides in the conflicts. This does not, of course, refer to the many and valuable lives of officers and men of different navies lost in trying to quell Native uprisings, when Forces six and seven times the proposed number of the present Force, when landed fully armed and assisted by machine guns, were not always eminently successful in preventing the Native wars—proving how totally inadequate the present force, however brave individually, would be in the case of an uprising, and yet how unnecessarily strong and expensive for tho simple policing of Samoa in times of peace, as at present, especially as far as the Natives are, concerned. We can assure you that some of the present officers and a few—say, half a dozen —selected men, put in charge of a strong Native Constabulary, would not only be ample, but far more effective, and much more in keeping with the general peace and safety of Samoa. Proclamation No. 65, and Sections Nos. 341 to 346 of Constitution. We ask for your earnest consideration of the following points. Revenue. —The average annual revenue for the past ten years derived from import duties on alcoholic liquor amounts to £4,028, and the average revenue from liquor licenses for the past six years was £198. The total amount received for duty and licenses for the year 1919 was £4,895. Consumers of alcohol pay these taxes in proportion to the extent of consumption, and non-consumers reap the benefit. The stoppage of importation will mean that some other source of revenue must be found, and the non-consumer will discover that he has to stand his part of this £5,1)00 which up to the present the consumer of alcohol has been paying for him. Might we inquire how the Cabinet proposes to replace this lost £5,000 ? Health. —With the exception of, perhaps, the most rabid prohibitionist, any one who has lived in the tropics for more than two or three years will admit that a certain amount of alcohol is necessary for the system. This will be endorsed by almost any member of the medical fraternity. We venture to say that during the epidemic of 1918 thousands of lives were saved by alcohol. No one who was not here at tho time can have any conception of the helpless state of the Native population during that dreadful time, nor of the splendid work done by the small band of military and civilians who volunteered to work, relieving the sick and burying the dead, and but for whom thousands of the Natives, unable to shift for themselves, would have died from starvation. Many of those engaged in this terrible work themselves had high temperatures and racking coughs, and only managed to keep going through the stimulating effects of alcohol. Without whisky it would have been a matter of physical impossibility for any white man to have handled the putrid corpses, some of which had been lying in their houses for three, four, and even five days. Strong men with hearty constitutions and stomachs like iron have, after handling some of these bodies, sat on the roadside and vomited, and declared, that it was impossible for them to continue ; and it is a matter of common knowledge that it was only through the stimulating effects of whisky that the work was carried on. Had there been no whisky to carry us through, the bodies would have remained unburied for weeks, and there would have been little if any relief work amongst the Natives, and as a consequence the death-rate would have been fully 50 per cent, higher than it actually was. Should we at some time in the futuro have another such visitation with no supplies of stimulants to help along the good work of relief, wo can assure you that the result is likely to be appalling. Terms of Mandate. —Either we have been misinformed or the terms of the Mandate do not call for total prohibition for Samoa. As interpreted to us, the Mandate states that liquor must not be allowed to Natives. To say that liquor cannot be kept from the Natives except by instituting prohibition is, to say the least of it, absurd. If you ask us to believe this, then we must also believe that you are unable to control the country as well as Germany could and did. Under German law supplying liquor to Natives was punishable by heavy penalty, and the Native found with liquor in his possession was also punished. With only two white police officers the Germans were able to so control the liquor traffic that drinking among the Natives was practically unknown. During military occupation the Natives were unquestionably supplied with liquor, but since the departure of the Forces there has been little sign of drink amongst the. Natives, with the exception of a few boys who appropriated the alcohol provided for use in the harbour-lights. We are informed that one of the arguments in favour of prohibition is that prohibition is in force in American Samoa. Thero is no parallel between the two places, as America Samoa is a naval station and automatically dry in accordance with American legislation, and that island is being administered by a country that is itself dry, and not by a country that has rejected prohibition in fair and open referendum. Effect on the Public of Proclamation No. 65. —We are assured that Proclamation No. 65 was not a military measure, and yet we have received no notification that we are not still a German colony under military occupation and subject to Gorman laws. We are also unaware that the Constitution has yet come into force, and we still maintain that the powerful machinery of military law was used to forco this measure upon the public. From the beginning, the majority of residents were not in favour of Samoa being placed under the control of New Zealand and this measure and the fact of it having been forced on us without any consultation of our wishes in the matter have almost completely alienated the sympathies of the public. If it is persisted with New Zealand will commence her administration of Samoa bitterly opposed by almost the whole of the settlers. You may consider that you are taking control of Samoa solely for the benefit of the Natives, and that the settlers are to be considered as passengers or strangers, and that their wishes are of little or no importance, but we can assure you that you will find tho difficulties of your task considerably enhanced if you attempt to control the country without the sympathy and co-operation of the public. Referring to the petition which was forwarded from here asking that Proclamation No. 65 be rescinded, and which was ignored except for a short cable message, we understand that every effort has been made in certain quarters to belittle the importance of the petition and the public meeting that led up to it. We can assure you that no more representative meeting was over hold in this or any other country. The statement that the meeting was engineered by a few people interested in the liquor trade will, not bear examination. The, meeting was called as the result of a universal outcry of indignation when Proclamation No. 65 was first made public. The petition was signed by all the principal residents, and we are almost certain was not signed by any soldiers or Civil servants, the latter having practically been ordered by tho Administrator not to sign. We understand that it is the desire of the New Zealand Government to foster trade, with Samoa, but it is more than evident to those who are in a position to note the popular feeling that if these sections of the Constitution are enforced, Samoa's trade with New Zealand will be confined almost entirely to commodities that are not obtainable elsewhere. We assure you that the high-handed and autocratic action of tho New Zealand Government in forcing prohibition on Samoa without consulting the residents has caused a feeling of grave mistrust, and is considered by almost the whole community here as unworthy of the democratic pretensions of that country, and we can scarcely bring ourselves to believe that such a thing could happen to people living under tho traditional liberty of the British flag. Wo strongly submit that tho liquor question of Samoa could easily and safely be handled under strict and capable Government control, and we believe that such Government control would meet all tho requirements of the Mandate and at the same time satisfy the public that their rights and liberties are not being trampled under foot and usurped. We now ask that, for the good of Samoa, for the good of the residents, and for the good of New Zealand, Proclamation No. 65 bo rescinded, and sections Nos. 341 to 346 of the Constitution be revoked or amended in such a form as to allow of the institution of strict and proper Government control.

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Status of German Property. We have been instructed to request that you kindly advise, if possible, what is the status of German property in Samoa at present. This question arises from the desire for purchase of properties now held by Germans, or sale of properties to Germans. Flag-raising day. Wo have been instructed to bring bofore you the request to select a day to be known as " Flag-raising Day," the first ceremony to be made impressive to both European and Native inhabitants, and kept as an annual holiday. Citizen's Committee. (Signed) C. V. Allom. E. A. Dobbie. B. I. Annandale. N. H. Macdonald. W. E. Clark. . G. Hay-Mackenzie. A. R. Coboroft. O. F. Nelson (Chairman). R, D. Croudace. J. T. Dunlop (Secretary). Hon. Sir James Allen (Minister of External Affairs) ; Gentlemen, we are here to receive the committee and to see' any of the public who like to attend to-day. We are very grateful to the eommifctee, who have put in concrete form in the pamphlet which has been distributed to members of Parliament the matters they wish to place before us. My intention is to ask members of Parliament, if they so desire, to put questions to you to elucidate any point about which they may be in doubt and want further information. Before doing so, however, I think it will be right to ask you whether you have anything further to say, either on the subjects mentioned in the pamphlet or on any other subject which you may deem it desirable to place before us, so that we may go away with the fullest information and with a complete knowledge of your mind, as far as it is possible to ascertain that. I should like to be informed by some one who is able to tell me what the position is with regard to the pamphlet. I understand that the articles have been prepared by individuals. I understand also that the separate articles were not submitted to the committee —at least, 1 have heard so—and I want your assurance whether each member of the committee had a full knowledge of each article when he signed the pamphlet. It is rather important for me to know whether the individuals who signed the pamphlet knew exactly what they were putting their signatures to. I want to know, therefore, whether the pamphlet was considered by the committee —whether it was read to the committee. Before Igo any further perhaps you would be kind enough to give me an answer to that question. Mr. 0. F. Nelson : In reply to the question, I have pleasure in saying that a special meeting of the committee was held to consider each and every one of these papers that were prepared by the individual members. The members of the committee in signing this pamphlet knew what they were signing, and agreed with everything that is said in it. Rev. W. E. Clarke : I am responsible for the paper that is written on the subject of education. 1 think it only fair to say that at the first meeting of the committee I had to inform the members of that committee that although I had been appointed by the citizens' meeting, yet I was not in sympathy with the resolution that was passed at that meeting. The members of the London Missionary Society are really in favour of the view outlined by the Director of Education, as far as we understand its details. I therefore stated that if it was understood that the views of the committee were to be endorsed by every member it would be impossible for me to sit among them. I suggested that in such case it would be desirable to nominate another member of the committee, and 1 would cheerfully withdraw. The committee replied that they wished to obtain the fullest possible information on the matter of education; they recognized the different point of view of the London Missionary Society, and they were quite pleased to have one of its representatives sit among them and to make that difference known. That accounts for the character of the paper. You will observe that the first portion of that paper represents the views of the Citizens' Committee, and there is an addendum to that which represents the views of our London Missionary Society. 1 have signed the paper in order that that might be quite unmistakable on the part of members of the party. Hon. Sir James Allen : Might 1 ask you whether in signing the pamphlet you endorsed all the other articles in it? I ask you and other members of the committee, Do you endorse all that it contains? Rev. Mr. Clarke ; I am bound to admit that on the prohibition question the members of the London Missionary Society are altogether in favour of prohibition. This committee was nominated with a view to each of us dealing with the subject on which we wrote an article. Therefore, while the document was signed by myself, I cannot, on behalf of the London Missionary Society, associate myself with the views expressed on the subject of prohibition. I think that, in view of the growing

Year. Import Duty. LI censes. 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 (duty altered).. 1915 1916 1917 1918 1919 £ s, d. 3,892 16 8 4,098 4 5 4,521 2 8 £ s. d. 4,051 12 0 4,601 19 3 3,418 5 9 3,309 19 11 3,594 18 11 4,766 1 8 281 10 0 291 10 0 190 10 0 151 10 0 136 10 0 129 10 0

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taste for alcohol amongst the half-castes, and the danger thereform to the Natives, prohibition is desirable for the community. The great bulk of the Native population have no taste for drink. They are already, I understand, protected by the Government in that matter. The prevalence of drinking among the Natives is, I think, practically confined to the immediate neighbourhood of Apia. But some form of prohibition, I think, is desirable. Hon. Sir James Allen: I should like to know whether you knew at the time what the other statements were in this pamphlet j Rev. Mr. Clarke : Yes. The papers were all read and discussed in detail at the final meeting, I think I ought to add that on the policy of prohibition I am not in favour of prohibition. I think that as a temporary measure for the present it is desirable; but as a permanent thing 1 do not believe in prohibition. Hon. Sir James Allen : I do not know whether the committee desire to add anything to what is stated in this pamphlet before I ask honourable members if they have any questions to ask. lithe committee do so desire, now is their opportunity to make what statement they think it desirable to make. Mr. Nelson : The Citizens' Committee have nothing to add'to what has been presented to the party in pamphlet form. Hon. Sir James Allen: Then I think we had better take these articles seriatim, in the order in which they appear in the pamphlet. The first article is the one dealing with labour and agriculture. Honourable members have had the opportunity of reading the pamphlet, and I now invite them to put questions on the subject of labour and agriculture. Mr. MoCombs : I understand that the committee was set up at a publio meeting, that it was asked to draw up a report to submit to a subsequent public meeting, and that at the subsequent public meeting the report was not read: is that so? Mr. Nelson : The public meeting that elected the committee instructed the committee to work up these different subjects, and to report their deliberations to another general meeting. This was done by giving an outline of the work done by the committee, and it was accepted by that pubile meeting. Mr. McCombs : I should like to ask some member of the committee if the report in the Samoa, Times of the second meeting is a correct one, which states that the report of the committee was not read to the meeting ? Mr. Nelson : I think I have already stated that the report as it appears in this pamphlet was not read to the public meeting, because when the first public meeting was held there was no thought of putting the views on these subjects into pamphlet form. Before the second general meeting was held we notified the public that the work of the committee would appear in pamphlet form, and thus all would be able to read it, and that it would take all night if it were read that night. A vote of confidence in the committee was passed by that general meeting, and the outline given of the work that had been done bj the committee was accepted. Mr. Veitoh : Since the publication of this pamplet have the committee received any protest from the public concerning the pamplet 1 Mr. Nelson : We have received no protests from any of the public up till now. Mr. Young : Did the general public have access to this pamphlet ? Mr. Nelson :It was available last Saturday. It would have been available before but for the fact that it was thought that the Parliamentary Party should first have their copies. Mr. Young : How many copies were printed, and how many were circulated ? Mr. Nelson : Five hundred. Mr. McCombs : It was submitted to the Parliamentary Party before it was submitted to the public, in whose name it speaks : is that so? Mr. Nelson : The public had accepted it already by the vote of confidence in the committee at the last general meeting. Hon. Sir Jambs Allen : I think we had better get to the question of labour and agriculture if members have any questions to ask. Labour and Agriculture. Hon. Mr. Garland :On pages 2 and 3 there are important statistics given. May the Parliamentary Party accept those figures as correct and culled from the reports of the Department in whose name they are printed? The figures deal with the acreages of land held under different titles. Hon. Sir James Allen : I think I had better answer that myself. These figures will be accepted by the Parliamentary Party and by the Government of New Zealand, with, one exception. They have been supplied by the officers of the Department here, and the other information has been obtained frdm reliable sources, I am informed. So we accept your figures, with the exception of one on page 7, under the heading " Copra." lam informed that for the year 1918 the value of the export set down—£426,s76 —is incorrect. It should be £246,576. There has been a transposition of the figures. With that alteration I think I may advise members to accept the figures. I think it will be most convenient to me, and I hope to you, if I make my statement after each of the subjects has been dealt with. Gentlemen, we are very grateful to you for the trouble you have taken to prepare the statistics and the information which is contained in this part of your pamphlet. There are a few items which I want to refer to before I make a general statement. On page 8 there is a reference to a considerable expense that you were put to by the Government removing the Chinese hospital from tho place where it was, and treating the Chinese patients in the hospital at Apia. I am informed that the reason for it was (hat the treatment of the indentured labourer would be very much safer under Government control—safer from the point of view of the labourer himself and the community generally—than would be the case if he were

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left very largely in the hands of the planters. Ido not think, therefore, you have any reasonable ground for complaint, though there may have been some little additional expense— 1 do not know how much. As far as lam concerned, 1 endorse the action that was taken in the interests of the labourer himself. In the next paragraph you refer to the expense you were put to with regard to labour barracks. What was done there was to endeavour to improve the barracks in which these labourers have to live. Your complaint is that you were asked to do this at a time when labour was being repatriated, and that you therefore had to bear additional taxation when your labour was going away from you. I admit that that may be so. At the same time, it was the duty of the Administration —and I endorse what the Administration did—to secure that the accommodation for the labourer was what it ought to be. I do not think, therefore, that your complaint with regard to the alteration of the barracks is one that we can endorse. Then you refer to the forced repatriation. It is quite true that during the war-time a great number of your Chinese and black labourers were repatriated. We were under a bond to repatriate these men when their time came unless they reindentured. Whatever action was taken by the New Zealand Government, 1 want to make it perfectly plain to you that it was action regarding which we were under directions from the Imperial Government. The Imperial Government sent us absolutely definite instructions that we were not to indenture any more Chinese labour during the war-time —nor Solomon Island labour either. We asked the Imperial Government if we might reindenture the labour already here, and their first reply was "No." We realized that that meant the destruction of the Samoan plantations, and we communicated over and over again with the Imperial Government and begged them to permit us to reindenture the labour which was here. Filially they gave a partial consent. They consented to our reindenturing for three mouths only during the war-time. If, therefore, you were asked to reindenture your labour for only three months during the war-time, it was not the action of the New Zealand Government, except as acting under direct instructions from the Imperial Government. As soon as the Armistice was signed we again approached the Imperial Government. We had been telegraphing constantly about this labour question to the Imperial Government, and to the Prime Minister when he was in England. 1 realized the situation and how you would suffer unless we could keep the plantations cultivated as far as possible. When the Armistice was signed we communicated again with the Imperial Government,, and begged them to allow us to reindenture for a longer period or to get labour from outside. After considerable correspondence they consented to a reindenture period of two years, and that is the position to-day. We did our best to induce the Imperial Government to allow us to indenture further Chinese. We communicated with them, and asked whether it was possible to indenture Solomon Island labour. The reply was, " You must communicate with Australia," because it was known that Australia would receive a. mandate over certain of the Solomon Islands which had been German possessions. We communicated with Australia, and we got a direct " No." We then communicated with the Imperial Government and said, " You have some of the Solomon Islands under your control : can you let us have some labour from there?" The answer was "No." My memory is not quite clear with regard to the Javanese, but if it is correct we also communicated with them about Javanese labour, and we were told we could not get Javanese labour. So you will see that as far as New Zealand is concerned every "effort was made to get you the labour which, we realize just as much as you do, was necessary for your plantations. I ask you. therefore, in all common fairness, as between this country and New Zealand, to do justice to New Zealand. We are not going to rest under the accusation that we have neglected you during the war-time, because it is not so. We were just as anxious to serve you during the war as we are anxious to serve you now. We were restricted, not because of any wish of ours. You ask on page i) for a return of at least a part of the repatriation fees. Who is to pay it? Would it be fair to call upon New Zealand to return to you part of your repatriation fees? Gentlemen, 1 must call your attention to the fact that we have all suffered during the war-time. There are people who may have acquired wealth during the war, but there are many who suffered through the war; and if you suffered because of the increased cost of repatriation it is no fault of the New Zealand Government. It is owing to the circumstances of the war. lam sorry that you have to suffer, as others have to suffer. I can hold out no hope to you that New Zealand will return to you any portion of the repatriation money. I am sorry that I cannot give you a more favourable answer. I hope to get a more definite reply with regard to the Javanese before I leave. Then, on page 22 you ask that Niue-Islanders may be brought her.c for public works. We should be only too anxious to supply you with Niue-Islanders if it were a fair thing to do so. We have been to Niue Island. I was there seventeen years ago, and exactly the same problem was in existence then as to-day. Deputations met us in Niue seventeen yearns ago, and prayed that we would not take all their best labourers away. We had to tell them_that we had to consider them and their island before we considered the needs and necessities of other islands in the Pacific. To-day it is just the same. We approached the Besident Commissioner in Nine and asked him whether he could spare some labour. When Dr. Pomare came round here last year I asked him to inquire in each of the Cook Islands whether there was any labour available for Samoa. He returned the answer that there was practically no labour available in the Cook Islands for Samoa. When we were at Niue recently we had an interview with the Commissioner. We told him of your necessities, and told him how great they were, and asked him, if he could, to spare some Niue-Islanders, if only a few, to come and help you in your dire necessity. He finally consented to permit a few to come. He could only spare a few, because there is their own island to keep going and their food-supply to maintain. He consented to allow a few to come here to work for the Administration. They will come here on the condition that, they are to be returned at the end of twelve months, and then they will be replaced by an equal number at the end of twelve months. A further condition is that if there are any Niue-Islanders here they shall be returned. That is the best we could do for you, and we have tried our best to help you. These

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men will come to work under the Administration, to serve the purposes of the Administration, 1 hope, within a few weeks. They will be utilized mostly for harbour-work. Then, gentlemen, you ask that we should provide for you an advances-to-settlers scheme. Ido not think at the present moment any advances-to-settlers scheme is very practicable. You know what your difficulties are; and until the labour question is settled and until you know where you stand and where we stand, I do not see how the Government of New Zealand can supply New Zealand money by way of advances to settlers. But we will take this into earnest consideration. I will report to the Prime Minister and to my fellow-members of Cabinet what you have said to me with regard to advances to settlers, and the matter will be further considered when I get back to New Zealand. Then, on page 23 you ask for the appointment of a local Secretary of Labour. I should like from you some explanation of the purposes for which a local Secretary of Labour would be required. There is already a Chinese Commissioner, who is the go-between from the Chinese to the employers and the Government, and I cannot myself at present —I do not know whether my fellow-members can; we will discuss the matter among ourselves —see any necessity for a Secretary of Labour, and we do not want to appoint officers who are not necessary. Then you ask for a scientist to advise in the matter of fertilizing. New Zealand is prepared to do all that it can to provide you with scientists for agriculture, or horticulture, or stock, or any other urgent necessity of the country. We brought down with us several experts. They are here to see for themselves and to report to the Government when they get back to New Zealand. We are anxious to help you to develop the country, but if we cannot act as quickly as you think we ought to act you must remember that our means are limited, and we can only do that which is possible. What is possible for us to do to help you, either with respect to agriculture, or stock, or anything else, the New Zealand Government are only too anxious to do, and I am sure members of Parliament will endorse this. Then you ask that two planters should be elected on the Administrator's Council. Perhaps I had better leave this until we come to the Legislative Council, which we will deal with later on. Then, on pages 23 and 24, you promise us loyal support. Before Igo back to deal with the general question of labour I want to thank you all for the promise of loyal support. We cannot do our duty, nor can you who are settlers here do all that you ought to do for the advancement of these islands, unless there is co-operation. We are anxious, now that we are here, to remove any ill feeling if there be any. We are anxious to bring you all together, to unite you as one community with the Administrator, in order that we may all put our shoulders to the wheel and do our duty to the Samoans, and do what we white men ought to do for the development of this country. But we cannot do that unless we pull together. We cannot do it if we are all pulling different ways —and there has been a certain amount of pulling different ways. May 1 ask you that, as a result of our visit, this should be put away, and that we should join hands and do all that we can to conserve that which is best in the Natives, and to make this land what it ought to be. Now I come back to the general question of labour. You will gather from what I have said that the New Zealand Government are anxious to help you with regard to labour. Since the Armistice we have communicated over and over again with the Imperial Government, and after a great deal of pressure and correspondence we again induced them to approach, the Chinese Government. As a result the Chinese Government did consent to the further indenturing of Chinese labour, and then the question cropped up in our House of Parliament; and we are like you —we have different opinions; we do not all agree about indentured labour. It was towards the end of the session. The Prime Minister was very anxious to get the session finished. The election was pending, and he gave a promise, and the promise has to be fulfilled. It was that whatever further Chinese labour should be indentured at the present moment should not bring the number of labourers in Samoa above the number that were then here, or about that number. He further asked members to come down to Samoa to see the conditions for themselves. We are here for that purpose, and we are under a pledge to do nothing more than that until the next session of Parliament. We are going back now, all the members who are here, having seen your island and having heard what you have had to say. I am unable to tell you what the opinion of all the members of Parliament may be to-day or when they get back, to New Zealand. 1 believe that most of them—l do not say all —must have been impressed with what they saw yesterday and what can be done by cultivation. We have also been impressed, and very much impressed, by what may happen if there is not sufficient labour to keep your lands cultivated. We must discuss the question in Parliament. lam unable, therefore, to give you more than my own opinion-, and that, I believe, is endorsed by the members of Cabinet. We believe that it is necessary —absolutely necessary —in the interests both of the Samoans and of the white people that provision should be made, somehow or another, for the necessary labour, at any rate to keep the plantations that have been cultivated up to the pre-war standard, and if possible to provide sufficient labour for the further development of your country. I want to say to you what I said to the Samoans. As I read the Mandate the islands are committed to us, it is true, in the first instance, to conserve the Native interests; but they are also committed to us in care for the rest of the world, and I personally do not believe it possible or right that rich islands like these in the Pacific, which produce things that the inhabitants of the world require, should be left uncultivated. That is my own opinion. I cannot go further than that. I think you may rest assured that we are very much in sympathy with you, and that we will do whatever we can to get you out of your trouble and to make your lands produce all that they ought to produce. But the matter must stand over until the next session of Parliament, which will be held at the end of June. The question will then be dealt with, and you will know from the legislation, or whatever may be done, what the mind of the New Zealand people upon the subject is. Perhaps I can take this opportunity to explain what the position is with regard to the Mandate. We have not received the final instructions with regard to the Mandate. The Mandate commits these islands to the

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care of New Zealand, to be administered as an integral portion of New Zealand. We took steps before Parliament adjourned to prepare for the introduction of Civil administration at, the earliest possible moment; in fact, we have taken some steps already to bring about Civil administration. The steps that were taken were these: We communicated with the Home Government, and asked them to advise us in what way we could bring the Mandate into force. The advice that we received was that the best way to do it would be by an Imperial Order in Council under the Foreign Jurisdictions Act, upon which we could base our Order in Council. Our draft Order in Council has been in existence since Parliament was .sitting. It was circulated to members of Parliament. It has been sent down here. It is all ready to be brought into force a few days after the Imperial Order in Council has been gazetted. I have telegraphed twice since I have been away from New Zealand to ask them to expedite the issue of the Imperial Order in Council. We have not yet received an answer to say that it has been gazetted. As soon as it is our Order in Council will be gazetted also, and then we can proceed to carry out the Civil administration fully. Municipality for Apia. Mr. Harris : I should like to know what area is proposed to be taken in—whether it will be as large as the municipality that was in existence here years ago, or whether it will be smaller. Mr. N. H. Macdonald : The proposed municipality will take in about half the area of the old municipality. Mr. Wright: What would be the population?—ln the old municipality to-day there are about 2,600 people, including Natives. What is the population of the proposed municipality?— Probably the number I have given would be reduced by one-third or one-quarter. Possibly there would be a population of two thousand, including Natives. Mr. Wright : Would the Natives be agreeable to come into the municipality and pay taxes? — That is a point I could not answer at present. I presume they would. They would derive a lot of benefit. Inside the municipality there is a different Native from the outside Native. The Natives there are accustomed to roads, and would appreciate the benefits the municipality would confer upon them. They might take the benefit of the municipality and refuse to pay the rates? —I have not gone into that. What would be the white population of the proposed new municipality, exclusive of all Samoans?—l estimate the number of the white population in the proposed municipality at 670. Hon. Sir R. H. Rhodes : Is it possible to make a valuation of the property in the municipality? —We consider that an approximate valuation would be worth £250,000. Hon. Sir James Allen: Do you know how many British there would be in the proposed municipality ?—There would be 335 British subjects. Mr. Luke : The pamphlet says that the Natives would not be taxed by the Municipal Council except for the services it actually supplied them with at their own request in the form of water, lighting, &c. Would it not be advisable that the Natives should come into line with the Europeans in the interests of health and the best that could be given to the Natives living within the municipal area? Have you considered the question on the lines of taxing the Natives for all these essentials in connection with municipal government ? Mr. Nelson : We were considering the old-established Native villages, which have something similar to a municipality of their own. Every one of these old-established villages lias a Village Council, which controls all local affairs. We thought that it might be to their interests, and that they might wish, to come under the jurisdiction of the municipality. For that reason the proposed municipality is prepared to allow the Native villages within the said municipality to have all their Native village rights preserved. Nevertheless they should only he taxed to the extent of whatever they require from the Municipal Council in the form of water or lighting. or whatever the service be. Mr. Wright : Supposing you had drainage, they would get the benefit of it and they might not want to pay for it?—lf they did not ask for it they would not get, it. Mr. Luke I Assuming a municipality were created, a drainage scheme and a water-supply would naturally be the two first essentials to be brought in. You would be safeguarding the interests and health of the European population; but unless you brought the Native population to conform to the requirements of the municipal work you would still have a menace to the health of the whole community. How are you going to obviate that menace if you leave the Natives within the municipal area unconnected with drainage and not served with water?—Tt is proposed that the Native villages should be controlled also by the Municipal Council in regard to sanitation and roads. Hon. Sir James Allen: At the top of this article reference is made to the Samoa Constitution Order. It is true that no local Ordinance can establish local government in Samoa when the Constitution Order comes into existence, but the Government of New Zealand have absolute power to do so, and if necessary will do so. It was thought advisable in the initial stages of the Administration not to give these very large powers, because the Government of New Zealand realize the very many difficulties, and they are therefore anxious that they should be consulted and that it should be done through' them at the present stage. You have already realized some of the difficulties from the questions that have been put. I may say with regard to the general principle— I think I can speak for my colleagues, but, in any case I speak for myself—that I am in favour of a municipality when the time comes, or a local Government Board. I do not think the time is ripe. The time is not ripe, in my opinion, because of the very many difficulties that are obvious to any one. The boundary can be easily settled, I dare say; but when the boundary is

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settled, whom will it include? It will include whites—British, Germans, others; it will include half -castes; it will include Natives. And what is to be the franchise? Who is to vote? These difficulties have all to be settled before you can become a municipality. I am in sympathy with the idea, but Ido not think it is feasible until we get these other questions settled. We want more experience before we shall feel justified in passing an Order in Council which will authorize the setting-up of a municipal body in Apia. Have any of you considered the franchise—who is to get the vote ? Are whites of all classes to get the vote if they are ratepayers ? Are the Natives to get the vote and the half-castes ? Have you considered it ? Mr. Nelson : It seems to me that the ratepayers would get the vote. Hon. Sir James Allen: Natives or otherwise? —Not Natives, because the Natives are supposed to have their own privileges reserved for them. I think it will be plain to members of Parliament that that raises a very serious question which we shall require to consider very carefully in New Zealand before we can consent to a municipality being established. I should also ask, Would the half-castes have a vote? —Yes; they are considered Europeans in Samoa. Hon. Sir James Allen : We realize the very many difficulties, and we cannot commit, ourselves until we see the solution of the difficulties. Mr. Wright : Would the committee be agreeable, if there were a municipality as they suggest, to allow the Samoans to elect one or more members, according to arrangement, to the municipality —the Samoans who are ratepayers in the municipality? —If the Natives become ratepayers I should think there should be no objection to their having representation; but they would not be compulsorily ratepayers, according to the pamphlet. Mr. Young : On page 26 it is stated : " The property within the area is assessed at about a quarter of a million sterling. A small tax on property alone would make an ample basis for funds." Is there included in that quarter of a million sterling the Native property within the proposed area? If so, do we understand from this statement that you propose to rate Native property ? Mr. Mac Donald : The amount mentioned there includes all the property within the proposed area—Native, European, and half-caste. Mr. Young : Do we understand, from the motive and ideas of those who are promoting municipal government here, that you will put a small tax on property, including Native property, within the proposed area? Mr. Nelson : No, not on Native property. Mr. Young: What is the value of these figures if you do not give us the actual rateable value upon which you are going to base your revenue? Can you give us some idea of the value of the property which you propose to rate for the purpose of carrying on government? Mr. Mac Donald : I think I answered that question before —that I cannot from memory give the figures, but I will do so later. A Free Press : Section 102 op the Samoa Constitution Order. Mr. Holland : Might I ask the Administrator if it is proposed to continue the censorship under the Civil administration? There is a statement here on page 27 that "at a meeting of the directors of the Samoa Times and the Administrator, at which Judge Watson was present, held on the 23rd December, in the course of a discussion on the censorship the Administrator stated that it might be necessary to continue the censorship of the paper under Civil administration." Is that so? Hon. Sir James Allen : I think I had better answer that question myself. I will answer it presently. Mr. Holland i I wanted to follow that up with another question. Can we not have that before we go into the general matter? I suggest that if the Administrator or the Minister can tell us that it is not proposed to continue the censorship, that might considerably shorten the proceedings with regard to this matter. Hon.- Sir James Allen : 1 have no desire to shorten the proceedings. I want the fullest information myself before I give an answer. Mr. Holland : Then I should like to ask from the committee for a statement, to some extent, in detail, of their complaints with regard to the censorship—a statement of the disabilities under which they claim they have suffered in connection with the censorship. Mr. E. A_. Dobbiio (Editor of the Samoa Times) : This matter is a very vexed one locally, and one on which I can speak witli some feeling. I have had a good deal of experience of censorships in London and New Zealand. I was the editor of a paper in New Zealand, and with regard to the censorship I have been put under here I have no hesitation in saying that I very strongly doubt if there is such another censorship in the whole world. In my opinion it is puerile foolishness. In the period since I have been here —during the past eight months —there have been four Censors. Amongst them have been Censors and Censors. I am a Britisher out-and-out, and a New-Zealander. I understood fully when 1 came down here that I was taking charge of a paper which catered for a cosmopolitan community. Prior to my coming to Samoa I was in the service of the Tongan Government as Government Printer. When I came here I had had some knowledge of Native life in Tonga—l had made a study of it. When I came here I knew I was in a strange community, a mixed community, and I knew that as editor of a newspaper I had to be very careful how I conducted that paper. Ido not think up to the present, even with the censorship,' any one can say I have not conducted that paper wholly and solely in the interests of this community and of New Zealand. This paper, of which I am part owner in association with another member of the committee, is temperate and mild; but if I were to give you gentlemen the experiences I have had under this censorship you would hardly credit them.

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Hon. Members : Let us have them. Tell us what has been censored. Mr. Dobbie : On the 23rd December, as is stated in the pamphlet, the directors of the Samoa, Times were asked to appear before the Administrator, Colonel Tate, and we went up there with the idea that possibly the censorship was going to be removed. Prior to that meeting I had written a certain editorial, a criticism concerning the police, who we thought were coming to the number of seventy-one. It was not very strong, but the last paragraph in that editorial was something to this effect, that the community were out of sympathy with the Administration. That particular editorial was censored. Furthermore, I was told this before my directors and in the presence of Colonel Tate : " Mr. Dobbie, if that article which you wrote up last week for the Samoa, Times had appeared in print I should have sent down a military guard to your office and had you arrested; and if you had got out of it with two years' imprisonment you would have been a lucky man." Mr. Harris: Who said that? —Colonel Tate. As I say, I have had four Censors. One in particular—l will not mention any names—would come down to my office and argue the point with me. That is not the duty of a Censor. If there is anything in the Press which he does not care about, as Censor he should carry out his duties; but instead of that this gentleman would argue the point at length. This happened time after.time. At the finish I was insulted. The position was becoming intolerable to me, and T had to inform my directors that I could not carry on. As T say, I was insulted on one occasion. This went on until that Censor gave it up. He got tired of it, as they all do. But I want to say that my last Censor, Major-General Robin, has treated mo with such courtesy and broadmindedness and tact that I would have been willing to do anything for him. I wish to pay him my respects, and to say that in my association with him he has given me a good run. Mr. Holland : I still think we ought to get more details of the censorship—the matters that were censored —if Mr. Dobbie can give us any information. Mr. Dobbie : I have certain proofs here with me that I should be pleased to submit to you gentlemen. Mr. Holland : Read them. Mr. Young : Might I suggest that you tell us whether the Censor has completely censored whole articles or expunged certain portions. If the latter, the censored parts will be sufficient for our purpose. Mr. Dobbie : I have instances of both kinds. I have here a letter to the editor on the subject, of indentured labour concerning Samoa. It commenced giving particulars regarding labour in other parts of the world. Hon. Mr. Lee : Who signed it?—lt was not signed —it was anonymous; but before the letter went into print I would have insisted on the writer's name appearing. Mr. T. W. Rhodes: Was the Censor supplied with the name of the writer?— No. This is what follows after the introduction :— Gentlemen of the New Zealand Government, what are you going to do about it ? Than Samoa there is no fairer land beneath the tropical sun. To know her is to love her. In proportion to size she is the greatest prize rescued from the Hun. She came to you willingly, aye ! joyously, blooming like the rose-garden of a connoisseur in the Homeland. What is she to-day ? The shadow of the jungle is over us :in certain abandoned plantations the jungle is here. By dint of united effort we kept the dread rhinoceros-beetle in cheek. The jungle becomes their unmolested breoding-placo, and our Native population has not merely been decimated but quadracated (Peccavi !) by an epidemic whose entrance was due to your inefficiency. Tutuila, about eighty miles away, exposed from Honolulu and Sydney, with twenty-four steamer calls in the year, kept it out; you, with half the chances of infection, failed. We want neither explanations nor excuses. He who runs may read the results. We have paid and are paying. To-day you are probably astounded at the outcry over Proclamation 65, imposed on us without our being consulted and without warning—a Proclamation meaning prohibition in three months. This can only be justified under the Hague Convention as a war necessity. But why ? The war was finished a year ago, and this action was not found necessary during its continuance. Although the white man of the tropics, deprived of . most of the comforts and pleasures of life, plagued by scores of insect pests, encountering all the business difficulties of tho Temperate Zone and many unknown there, is better for a " tonic " at the end of the long day, do not think that it is this deprivation which is responsible for the feeling thus expressed ? Not so ; this is but the last straw of the camel's load. We particularly object to being made a football for your " forty-seven warring sects." We are apparently tho bone of contention in the coming political campaign, and we must wait again until that is over. This Proclamation 65, so unceremoniously thrust upon us, seems to be another political move—the Prohibition Party, through the Military Administration, making sure that prohibition will be in effect when the oountry reverts to Civil In the meantime, we are told you are preparing a Constitution for us. We are curious to see it. How many of those concerned in its framing have ever been in Samoa or lived in tho tropics ? Or is it believed that we have no interest in the matter ? A fig for your Constitution ! What we want is a mart--a trained man—one who can distinguish between a banana and a coconut. And with him he must bring a policy—a proper policy suitable to our needs. Gentlemen of the New Zealand Government, will you help us or not ? You prate to-day of the sacred trust, you are about to assume under the Mandate. How about the trust you took over in August, 1914 ? Our needs have been laid before you repeatedly. Have you ever listened to them ? Have you in a single instance raised a hand or voiced a protest ? In the trying times of last November proffered assistance at hand was ignored, and Australia was eventually asked to and did furnish aid which, unfortunately, arrived too late. We suffered in patience during the war; we have waited patiently for one year for the hoped-for fruits of our sacrifice. Gentlemen of the New Zealand Government, the issue is squarely up to you. What are you going to do ? Mr. MoCombs: W T as that all struck out? —All struck out. I have here another one. We had down here some few weeks ago a very reputable citizen of New Zealand, a Mr. T. J. Adair, of Gisborne, who visited Samoa as a sightseer. He just came by the steamer and went back, and he gave a few of his impressions to one of the Gisborne papers, the Poverty Bay Herald. I wished to print in the Samoa Times some of his impressions. One passage here is struck out. Originally it read, " The reason for the lazy propensities of the Samoans he ascribed to the fact that each

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Samoan had a certain number of trees, and by this means he secured his livelihood and fully used his independence." The words " The reason for the lazy propensities of the Samoans " were struck out, and altered to " the disinclination of the Samoans to undertake outside work." Then, a little lower down this sentence was censored out: "The Samoans did not care what rule they were under, as they were just as well satisfied under the Germans as they were now." That was censored out. Hon. Members : Quite right, too. Mr. Dobbie : I quite agree with that. I have here another article, an historical article, which appeared in the Sa.moa Times of the 6th December. A portion—about a column of the Samoa Times —was censored out; but the peculiar part is this: this particular story had appeared in consular reports which had been made to the different countries concerned, and they had appeared in a book written by Mr. Trood, and photographs of this particular incident are all over this little town. As I say, it was an historical article on Old Apia, and this is the part that was censored out : — Old Charlie Netzler used to say that Governments were good for little else but to collect taxes. In the good old days they got along without thorn just as well. " What about law and order, Charlie ? " " Well, you see," was his usual reply, "if anybody went too far, there was always plenty among the rest of us to pull him up." Thus it happened, forty-two years or thereabouts ago, when a murder was committed, the infuriated mob meted out stern justice to the perpetrator by hanging him from a coconut-tree. The murderer had been conveyed by order of the Consuls on board a schooner in the harbour, ostensibly to be tried in California, he being an American citizen. But the enraged citizens were anxious to make sure of his fate. That same night, about 7 o'clock, they put off in boats to the ship and brought the culprit ashore. Meanwhile preparations for his execution were proceeding apace. The coconut-tree selected for the purpose was located opposite the Central Hotel, on the vacant, plot a few feet from Tattersalfs rails. A block was fixed to this tree about 60 ft. from the ground. When all was ready the culprit, who had been under surveillance in an outhouse across the way, was brought forth. This was about 8 o'clock, half an hour after he had been brought ashore. Barrels of tar had been ignited in the vicinity of the coconut-tree, and there was a crowd of people present, several hundred strong. When the man arrived, blindfolded, at the foot of the tree, the noose (with two monstrous knots in it) was quickly adjusted around his neck, and at a given signal the score or more persons holding the rope dashed forward in the direction of the beach, the man being jerked off his feet and run to the top of the tree with lightning-like rapidity. Needless to add, death was correspondingly swift. The body remained suspended till the following morning, when a photograph was taken. Copies of the photograph are still in existence. Among the spectators, how many survive ? Only two that we hear of—Harry Ducker, now resident in Falelatai, and Manuel Silva. Manuel was more than a spectator, as he was one of the long queue who dragged at the rope. That was censored out —why, I cannot say. Now, here is another article, taken from the Auckland Star. It referred to Samoan affairs, and this part was censored out : — An Administrator whose main qualification for the post is the knowledge gained in his profession is not the man to undertake the work of reconstruction that is ahead in Samoa. Dr. Solf, who established the system of German Government in Samoa after the partition of the islands in 1898, was a capable official who had had some years' experience in the Group in charge of Oorman interests. He was familiar with Native problems and thoroughly awake to the needs of the Territory. We are afraid that, however capable an official Colonel Tate may be in his own particular sphere, he lacks the knowledge that, Dr. Solf had when he started out on his task. Mr. Young : What is the date of that publication in the Auckland Star? —l cannot supply that offhand. I. should say it would be some time in December last. Have you any of your own writings which have been censored? —Yes. The only editorial of mine that was censored was a criticism in regard to the seventy-one police, in the last paragraph of which I stated that the community was out of sympathy with the Administration. This is an editorial of the 20th December, which did not appear at all owing to the Censor : — Samoa's Constabulary. The appointment of seventy-one men for the Samoan Constabulary has given considerable food for thought in the public mind. It is difficult to understand why such a large force has been engaged. Residents of long standing and high reputation are amazed and are asking how far Samoa can stand such an expense, which at the very least must cost the country £30,000 a year. At, first when it was noised about that such a large Police Force was to be engaged it was considered a baseless rumour, but as the truth dawned and became generally known, resentment was keen. The expense to the country for such a force represents £1 per head of the total population. In former times, before the occupation, only three Europeans, assisted by Native police, were found necessary to police Samoa. The appointment of seventy-one men would infer that there is a considerable amount of crime in Samoa. But that is not the case. Wo think the police records would show that Samoa stands, in comparison with other countries, pre-eminent in its respect for law and order, hence the surprise and resentment for engaging such a force. One of the most painful sights is to note the difficulty the soldiers of the garrison have to fill in their time. One of their chief complaints is that they have not enough to do. They themselves, with the community, wonder why they have been kept here so long. All the more wonder is expressed at the military being replaced by a Civil force equally as strong. We have been at pains to interview old residents, whose views on such a matter cannot be denied. Without exception the step has been decried as being wholly unnecessary and unjustifiable. It is considered a mistake. Tho enrolment of police to such a number compares with Auckland City, with a population of 100,000, where a force of only seventy to eighty police is required. In Fiji under twenty European police are engaged, while in Tonga, over a population of 23,000, there are only twenty Native police. When it is considered that the estimates for Samoa for 1919-20 show a revenue of £80,125 and an expenditure of £80,11.4, one is at a loss to know where the £30,000 is to come from. Penetrating the matter dispassionately, we regard, in common with the general community, that the appointment of seventy-one police is a blunder which it is particularly difficult to reconcile. It suggests the hope that the time is not far off when a disfranchised community The remainder of the proof was kept, I believe, by the Administration. Hon. Mr. Carnchoss : In one of the articles you read there was a reference to the fact that you required here as Administrator " a man who knew a coconut from a banana." Do you know what the personal reference was that was intended to be conveyed in that? —I can guess at it.

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Did you see nothing offensive in that? —I did. Yet you printed it?—l am not so sure about that. I used to send my proofs to the Censor. He would go over those proofs before 1 had had them corrected or read. This paper is not like one of the big city dailies in New Zealand. I am up against a very heavy proposition here. I am printer's " devil," proof-reader, reporter, and manager. In this particular case I sent the proofs up. Any further alterations I make are made on those proofs, and I do not think that would have gone into my paper. Do you send your proofs out before you as editor have read them? —Yes, to save time. That is an unusual proceeding, it is not? —Perhaps you know the procedure in newspaper life when you are culling from another newspaper. You paste it up, and when you have time you pass it on to the boy to have it set up. I think if I could explain to you more fully what my position is you would understand the bustle I have to put up with. Is it your custom to cut out articles for insertion in your paper without having first considered their effect? —Sometimes. It all depends on the amount of time I have; but they are always considered before they go into the paper. In this one particular case apparently (lie article was not?—lt never went into the paper. You sent it to the Censor without having first censored it yourself ?—I invariably do that. You say you have had considerable experience as a journalist? —Yes. You read to us an article concerning some brutal affair that took place here during the early days. That went in with your approval. Had you read that before you submitted the proof? —It went up in the usual way before it was corrected. Did you yourself make that selection? As editor of the paper did you select that article for printing in your paper?— That was not culled. It was an original article written locally. Did you read that original article before you inserted it?— Yes. Anything that is supplied to me in manuscript form I read through. Have you any Samoans among your subscribers? —I can only think of one full-blooded Samoan. There are many half-caste people here. Do they read your paper?— Yes. Do you approve of literature of this kind being circulated among a people of this kind?— I do not. Yet you permit it to appear in your paper?— But it has not appeared in the paper. It would have appeared if the Censor had not stopped it?—As I said, although that may have been sent up to the Censor, if I did not care about a particular thing I would alter it myself even after the Censor had done with it —as I have had occasion to do before. You are editor of this paper ?—Yes. Do you not yourself personally peruse all that goes into that paper?— Yes. Then you must have approved of this article appearing which you tell us you did not approve of?— No. It is rather an awkward question. I was trying to explain that from want of time very often, rather than sub-edit the stuff that appears in the New Zealand papers, I cut it out and pass it to the boys to set up. When that is done the proofs are pulled. They go up to the Censor in that form. When they come back and I have more time Igo over them myself and correct them. Then you are wasting the Censor's time by sending articles up to him which you have not perused yourself? —I have perused them roughly. With regard to the article I was referring to, do you not think that it would have an effect upon the Samoan mind in inclining them to recognize that there is such a thing as lynch law? — No, If they felt inclined in that direction they would have been influenced many years before that article was written. Mr. Harris : Has it been a usual thing for the Censor to censor articles which have been culled from the New Zealand papers? —He has only censored an article when he has thought it unfit for local consumption. It may be all right for New Zealand, but as far as Samoa is concerned it is another matter. Are those papers from which you have taken these articles circulated in Samoa?— They are spread broadcast round this island. There are articles in the New Zealand papers —some of the extremist New Zealand papers—which 1 would not think of culling; but with regard to the reputable section of the New Zealand Press, if I come across anything that is of local interest I publish it. I can tell you this, however, that there has been matter even in the reputable New Zealand papers .which I know would not be tolerated in the Samoa Times. Mr. Wright : What papers?— The Auckland Star. Any others ? —You have caught me napping at the moment. Mr. Isitt :Do j r ou not recognize that criticism of the Administration here in Samoa is safe and valuable in the New Zealand papers, and that criticism that may appear there with the possibility of doing good and with no possibility of doing harm, may, if it is copied here, do all the harm in the world with the Native population?— Yes, I realize that. Mr. Wright : I understood you to say, with reference to that passage about the banana and the coconut, that you would not have allowed that to appear in the paper. Would you have allowed that to appear?— No. Then you approve of the censoring of that part of the article? —Quite. Mr. Holland : As a journalist, do you really think there was anything that would justify the censoring of that statement, allowing that the statement was in bad taste?—My opinion about that is this : I did think it in bad taste, because I am of opinion that our Administrator is doing his level best; I believe he is trying to carry out his task as conscientiously as any man can: but of the reasons, I hold, why there is such a lot of discontent about the place is that because of the censorship of the Samoa Times people are suspicious of the Administration.

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Hon. Mr. Triggs : Would the directors of the Samoa Times, and the white residents generally who are interested in the freedom of the Press, be satisfied if the censorship were removed and a stringent law inserted in the Code against anything calculated to excite disaffection, or anything of a seditious nature ? Would that meet the case ? In that case you would take the risk of whatever was published, and the Magistrate would act as censor if you overstepped the law?— I think that at once time the Samoa Times Company was almost given the option of going along without censorship but with a strict interpretation of clause 102, which is a facsimile of a clause in the Crimes Act in New Zealand. If the company had been prepared to put up with that condition—that the interpretation would be a strict one —I believe the censorship would have been removed. But after an experience of one of the Censors who was censoring my proofs—after an experience of his views on certain matters—l came to the conclusion that with the interpretation which was placed on clause 102 my work would be so difficult that I would not carry on fairly and satisfactorily in the interests of the readers. Are you not prepared to be subject to the same law that we are subject to in New Zealand? — As I said a moment ago, there is certain matter in the New Zealand papers which would not be allowed in the Samoa Times. Therefore a much broader and more liberal interpretation must be given to that clause operating in New Zealand. Mr. MoCombs : You do not know. Mr. Dobbie : 1 do not; but according to the interpretation given to us I am inclined to think that the carrying-out of that clause would be very stringent. Hon. Mr. Triggs : 1 suggest that either you must have a censorship of your articles before they appear or you must subject yourself to the censorship —if I may so call it—of the Magistrate or the Judge in the event of your publishing anything of a seditious nature or calculated to excite disaffection. Which of those two alternatives do you ask for?—lt seems as though the carrying-out of that clause would be rather strict, and to safeguard myself I would say it would be better to carry on with the Censor. Hon. Mr. Michel : Are the whole of the directors of the Samoa Times British-born subjects or men born in Samoa ? —One is Samoan born; all the rest are thoroughly British. Hon. Mr. Garland : In your opinion has the censorship of your paper resulted in any harm or any detriment to the people of Samoa? —Not that I am aware of; but we have a good many growlers here, and if it is a particular growl that a man desires to make he would not send that to the Samoa Times, because he would feel that he would not get a fair run owing to the Censor. In regard to loss, there is a loss involved in that. The growlers are generally individuals? —Exactly. There is a certain loss attached to this censorship, and my paper could not stand the racket that was carried out some weeks ago, when I have to report to my directors that the Censor had cost the little office anything from £15 to £20 in that particular week. After I had finished with the Censor —and 1 w r as adamant on a particular point—that Censor went round this town and interviewed all my directors to persuade them to get me into a certain way of thinking. It so delayed my paper that week that I despaired. Had it been delayed another hour I could not have published the paper that week. The delay cost the company anything from £15 to £20. Mr. Young: Have you absolute editorial control over what appears in the paper?— Occasionally when I feel 1 want advise I go to one of the members of my directorate. Do you ever receive instructions from your directors as to what you should put in the paper? —No, but I have been told what they would not like to appear in the paper. Mr. T. W. Rhodes :We mean as to the policy dictated by the directors?— When I was engaged to take control of the paper I was given an entirely free hand. Mr. Young : Do you not think it would show tact on your part and make for the clearing-up of a lot of the misunderstanding and feeling that appears to exist if you sub-edited all your articles before they were submitted to the Censor? —That is a very good suggestion. I would be quite prepared to do that. Hon. Mr. Geddes : Do you make the whole selection of the copy yourself, or have you any one under you in the capacity, let us say, of sub-editor, who occasionally gives out articles or copy to the printer, leaving them to be revised by the editor later on? —No. I am the only European. I have ten Samoan boys under me. 1 am the reader, reporter, editor, sub-editor, message-boy occasionally, and printer's " devil." Hon. Sir James Allen : 1 am in favour of a free Press, but not a free Press that is unlicensed. A free Press must " play the game." It has been obvious from this discussion that the complaint that has been made about the Censor is not as solid as it appeared. The articles have been submitted to the Censor without having been read by the editor. May I suggest to the directors that they make the staff strong enough to allow the editor to himself censor articles before they go to the Censor; and I venture to say that if Mr. Dobbie acts in the spirit in which he has met us to-day, the censorship will be practically a dead-letter—he will do it himself. But if you ask me to remove the censorship altogether, I fear that that cannot be done. You must adopt one of the alternatives which the Hon. Mr. Triggs has suggested. You must have the censorship, or you must go before the Magistrate or the Judge regarding material appearing in the paper which is against the law. Either of those two alternatives is open to you, and one must be accepted. Now I want to point out to you the great difference that exists between the publication of newspapers and so on in New Zealand and their publication here. Here we have to deal with a Native population numbering 30,000, and the whites altogether, including half-castes, number 1 606 We have a grave responsibility with regard to the Samoans. If they are to be excited by articles in the newspaper published in this town it is the duty of the Government to see that those articles are restrained; and you must please understand that. As far as the Administrator is concerned, I am quite sure he will deal with you fairly and squarely, and I doubt very much

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whether there will be any trouble at all in the future if you carry out the suggestion which I understand you have agreed to —that you will edit the articles yourself before they are submitted to the Censor. We are anxious to have a paper here which will criticize, honestly criticize, but not go beyond honest criticism. I must confess that in those articles which have been read there is, to my way of thinking, an underlying suggestion to the Native mind which will create trouble. We cannot permit that. We have a difficult problem to deal with, and in these initial stages we must ask you to make your criticism such that it does not excite the Native or anybody else to revolt, that it does not create in his mind suspicion of the Government, because unless he trusts us we can do nothing with him. We must, so far as we are concerned, lead the Native to look up to us with perfect trust. I can only say with regard to the censorship that though we do not propose to remove it, we hope it may become a dead-letter, and I suggest to you that you will make it a dead-letter yourselves by publishing criticism that is fair and does not excite. Education. Hon. Mr. Thomson: On page 32 of the pamphlet it is stated, " Probably not 1 per cent, of the Samoans are unable to read and write, and the children of these village schools are enabled, before they leave them, to reach a standard about equal to the Fourth Standard in the New Zealand schools." Do J understand that these young people are taught in the Samoan language only, and, if so, is it possible to arrive at any relationship between the two classes of schools? Is there any English taught in these schools ? Rev. Mr. Clarke : The whole of the teaching in our Native Samoan schools is in the vernacular. English is being taught, but a large number of the Samoan teachers have only a scanty knowledge of English. Therefore attempts at English education at present are rather weak. You must always remember that English was forbidden to be taught in the schools during the German occupation, therefore during those fourteen years our Native pastors did not have very much opportunity of acquiring facility in the English language. Still, it is now being taught in all our schools. To that extent our standard is not equal to the Fourth Standard of a New Zealand school, but in subjects of general education I think I may quote Mr. Bird as saying that in his opinion the standard in the Native village schools is about equal to the Fourth Standard in New Zealand, but not in English. Hon. Mr. Thomson: On page 37 it is stated, "We feel bound to add that the attempts so far at Government education are not very encouraging." Does that statement apply to the two Government schools which we had the pleasure of examining on Friday last?—lt does not apply to the work that is being done in the schools. It is a general criticism of the work that is being attempted. It refers more particularly to the cost. The Citizens Committee were most concerned about the expense, and the criticism referred most particularly to the purchase of a site for the establishment of an agricultural college, which has gone to pieces, and also to the purchase of land at Mulifanua. Therefore we cannot consider it a very successful attempt at educational work. You have an attendance at these schools in Iff Ifi of 150 children, I think, and you have a staff there of five white teachers. Remember, also, that the education there is conducted in English, and that the children must have some knowledge of English before they are in a position to be taught. So that when you come to consider carefully the question of expense, and remember that a Samoan school will often have more than a. hundred children with only a Native teacher and his wife to manage it —when you consider that and the cost the education of the children of Samoa has involved to the London Missionary Society and the Natives of Samoa, we feel we are justified in the criticism that the attempts made up to now are not altogether encouraging. There is no attempt to criticize the work being done by the teachers of the schools or the Director of Education. All those gentlemen have done their work with efficiency, and the schools here are admirable schools. But I think it is a fair comparison with the work of education which is now being done in Samoa to say that the attempts of the Government hitherto have not warranted very much gratification on the part of the inhabitants of Apia. Mr. Isitt : As we have travelled round we have seen a considerable number of half-caste Chinese and German children. Do you not think it absolutely necessary for our future protection that these children should be compulsorily educated?—l think I made it plain in the pamphlet that the London Missionary Society are in full sympathy with the Government's view that education should be given on an improved system in Samoa. We would like the Government to attempt the education of the whole of our Samoan community. We as a society are anxious that there should be a scheme for the higher education of Samoa. Our scheme is limited to the capacity of our Native teachers, and we recognize that they have practically reached the limit of their ability at present. Therefore, if the Government of New Zealand can take up the work of education where we leave it and give to our children, both Native and half-caste, a better scheme of education, we cordially welcome the attempt. Rev. J. W. Sibree : Mr. Isitt asked whether we were in favour of compulsory education. I say that we want compulsory education for all the children in Samoa. The society I represent, and all the missionary societies here, made attempts with the German Government to get Government assistance towards compulsory or semi-compulsory education, but we were thwarted every time we made any move in this matter. We are looking forward to the Government making some State regulation that there shall be compulsory education. Hon. Mr. Lee : Who would provide the funds? Rev. Mr. Sibree: We are not asking'for New Zealand to find all the funds. The trouble with the Citizens Committee is that we fear you are going to put a great levy on Samoa for the education of the Samoans. Speaking for myself and the society which I represent, I hope Samoa will be taxed for some of its education. The missionary societies have born it all ever since we

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came here, and the people of England, through us, have done their best for the education of the people of Samoa. At the present time the Samoan Church is bearing the entire cost of education. We are supported by the Natives of Samoa, and therefore we can say that Samoa is bearing its own educational burden, but not through the Government at all—through voluntary contributions. Mr. Wright: On page 37 of the pamphlet it is stated that " the work could be done infinitely better and at much smaller cost by the existing agencies." Would you give us details of what is meant by " existing agencies " ? Rev. Mr. Clarke : I referred to the work which is being done by the various missionary societies. They are all mentioned in the pamphlet—the Roman Catholics, the Methodists, the Mormons, the Seventh-day Adventists. They are all educational agencies. Mr. Wright : You think, then, that it would be right to subsidize all those religious bodies? —I think that if you will refer again to that paragraph you will see that I have carefully guarded myself. I say, " The attempts at Government, education are not very encouraging, and fully warrant the citizens' fear of enormous expense with very inadequate results, and their contention, and the contention of all the other missionary societies, that the work could be done infinitely better and at much smaller cost by the existing agencies, if encouraged and helped by a Government subsidy based on results." You must bear in mind that, all the other missionary societies, so far as I am aware, except the London Missionary Society, desire to be left alone to do their own educational work. Therefore I say, bearing in mind the unwillingness of the town to foot what appears to be an exceedingly heavy bill, and the not very encouraging results of the attempts made hitherto, there is considerable warrant for the hesitation on the part of the townspeople and for the contention of the other missionary societies that the work could be done better if they were left alone. At the same time, we, the London Missionary Society, do not share that view. 1 think that is made quite plain in the paper in the pamphlet—that the London Missionary Society differ from all the other societies in their contention, and desire to support the Government in improving educational facilities for the Samoans. Hon. Sir James Allen : How much is raised by the London Missionary Societ}' for education in Samoa itself? —There is no direct levy made for education. How much is collected?— For all purposes of mission work in Samoa the contributions amount to about £8,000. The Samoan Church have an agreement with the. London Missionary Society that they shall themselves pay the expenses of their own mission. They support their own pastors, who are also the schoolmasters of the villages. With that we have nothing to do. The matter of salary is a matter of agreement between the pastor and the village. Do the villages pay the pastor? —That is independent of the £8,000. I think that, roughly, the payment of the pastor amounts to two-thirds of the sum which is contributed for the cost of the mission. They send from Home to the Samoan Churches a balance-sheet containing the expenditure for a year —the proportion of the cost of the mission ship, the cost of their share of the work in the other islands Which are the mission field of Samoa, the cost of mission salaries and mission grants, the cost of upkeep of mission houses, and all the expenses of the working of the mission : these are set forth. That balance-sheet is submitted to the Samoan Church. They have a Financial Committee, and this committee lias control of all the moneys which are collected every year. We will say they amount to £8,000. A sum of 10 per cent, is first of all written off for the whole mission work of Samoa. There is a Native committee which controls that amount. That 10 per cent, is used for work in which the whole of the interests of the Samoan Church are involved". A second 10 per cent, is written off and is placed in Ihe control of each district. The bill which is sent from the London Missionary Society for their outlay, and the bill for the local expenses, all of which have been inspected by the Native Finance Committee, are then met, and (lie balance is then at the control of the Native central committee. Hitherto they have banked it in the Bank of New Zealand on fixed deposit and as a sinking fund towards the work of higher education, to which 1 make reference in the pamphlet. It is in that way that the money is raised for educational purposes in Samoa. There is no direct levy. Mr. Young: What is the number of teaching-hours per week in the mission schools?— That is rather a difficult question. There are only three possible days for teaching in a Native school. How many hours per week in the elementary schools?— Roughly, about nine hours a week. What part of that time is devoted to the teaching of English? Rev. Mr. Sibree : We have only begun within the last two years and a half to teach English to the Native children of Samoa. For fourteen years we were deprived of the privilege of teaching English in these islands —absolutely forbidden by German law. Therefore you have a new generation which knows nothing of English. So we have to try to teach children who know nothing of the English language. With the available material we teach English from an English primer to the Fifth and Sixth Standards. 1 cannot say what time is given. We have not yet a proper syllabus for the teaching of the subject. Before the German occupation we had a timetable for our village schools, which allowed something like three hours for three days; but for three or four months of the year that time was more than doubled by the pupils sitting up at night preparing for examinations. Mr. Young : Have you any definite system governing the teaching of English in your schools? —We are beginning. We are teaching English as one of six subjects in the village schools, and it gets its proportion. In the other schools we give a very considerable amount of our time to English, where we have English teachers. At page 36 you say, " The idea is prevalent with quite a number of New-Zealuuders amongst us that the mission of the Samoan is to become a hewer of wood, a drawer of water, and a plantation labourer for the benefit of the white man." Is that paragraph likely to be translated into the Samoan language and circulated among the Samoan community?

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Rev. Mr. Clarke :It may. It is not very likely. Mr. Young I On what grounds do you base that statement, that quite a number of NewZealanders have this impression as to what the mission of the Samoan is?—l think that is the prevalent impression. The average New-Zealander who comes here concludes that the Native population are here for the purpose of working these plantations—the white man's plantations. That is the prevalent idea amongst a great many —not only New-Zealanders, but white men — who come to these islands. I want to know the grounds upon which you base that statement. You seem to convey the impression that this is our opinion regarding the Samoan—the opinion of this Parliamentary Party?—My reply to that is that this article was written before the advent of the Parliamentary Party here, and the paragraph which follows explains that statement. Mr. Isitt : I should like to ask whether, either by the public-school teachers or by any missionary society, any effort is being made to follow up the Samoans as they leave the schools and teach them habits of industry and self-improvement. If nothing of that kind is being done at the present time, do Mr. Clarke and the others think that anything could be done if they got Government support? I ask that question because I was talking to a young Samoan and urging upon him the necessity of continuing, and he said " 1 have left school," and seemed quite insulted at the idea that he should go on learning anything. Rev. Mr. Sibree : The missions as well as the Government have done something in the way of trying to meet the further needs of the Sainoans after thej leave the elementary school. Mr. Hills, one of our missionaries, started a technical school and agricultural school in Leulumoega, eighteen miles away from here. It is being carried on as an industrial school, and for the last twenty-five years we have had a hundred boys in that school. We have thus given training in joinery and turnery, and, in Mr. Hills's time, in agriculture. All the work for the progress of Samoa agriculturally has been entirely done by our friends the Catholic Brothers and by Mr. Hills. With regard to the Government schools others can speak. Under the German administration they also had a technical school here, and sent some of the boys away from here to China, where they acquired a very considerable knowledge of carpentry. We believe that that is part of the work of the Government rather than of the missions. We hope it is part of the work the present Administration will further. Mr. Isitt: Are you doing anything for the women at all?—We have two boarding-schools, and the Catholic mission has a boarding-school for girls, teaching them industry and domestic work. Hon. Sir James Allen : 1 wish to recognize to the full the very valuable work which is being done in Samoa and in all the islands of the Pacific by the missionaries, and I give them again the assurance they have already had —that the New Zealand Government do not want to interfere with them. We shall be verj glad indeed if they will continue to carry "on their work. We shall be ready to help them in any way we can. I understand that our Director of Education has, after a conference with you, made some suggestions to you about your schools, in the hope that he may help you. He will be quite willing—and the Administration, I am sure, will be quite willing to permit him —to assist you in any way that he can. We do not want to get into conflict with you. We want to work together. And I say that, too, with regard to these other missions. There are one or two sentences in this article which I must refer to, because I regret that the}' have been put in. I refer to the sentence on page 35 with respect to "the discouraging experiments of the Government, of New Zealand." It would have been better, I think, if the writer had explained that he was referring to the cost and not to the experiments themselves. The things are separate and distinct, and we should feel very hurt if the London Missionary Society should refer in disparaging terms to an honest effort of New Zealand to help you with education. If it is imperfect—well, none of us are quite perfect. We have come here to try to help. The Germans had these schools before; we came to take them up. I will refer later on to the question of cost. Please understand, therefore, that though they may appear to you discouraging, we have come to ascertain if they are. If we are not doing what we ought to do, we will change and do what we can. Our Inspector is here to report upon these schools. He is a skilled Inspector. He has been Inspector of our Native schools. I have the fullest confidence in .him. He is in complete touch with the Maori children in New Zealand, and lam quite sure he will be in touch with the Polynesians here and with those who have been trying to do so much for them in the past. Then, T am sorry regarding the sentence that appears at the bottom of page 35 and "the top of page 36: "The new Constitution, moreover, avowedly aims at the destruction o_f Samoa as a self-governing community." I really do not know upon what evidence that statement is based. It is not my feeling, it is not the feeling of the New Zealand Government, that we want to destroy Samoa as a self-governing community when it is able to govern itself. We are quite willing to give the Samoan people every facility to govern themselves. We have told the Natives, as I tell you, that Native self-government will be continued under the Administration as it has been in the past. If we can improve it as time goes on we shall improve it. So we are not out to destroy you as a self-governing community. T do not know why the statement has been made. If we have in any way been discourteous to the London Missionary Society I apologize. There is a statement on page 36 which I very much regret. Possibly we are to Blame. If we are we will take the blame and express our sorrow and regret. This is the sentence: "The London Missionary Society in Samoa has not hitherto been overwhelmed by the consideration or the courtesy of the Government." My own contact with the London Missionary Society in the Cook Islands leads me to say that, so far as the Cook Islands are concerned, I do not believe the London Missionary Society would say that, we did not help them or that we were discourteous. We did what they asked us to do. ' They asked us to take over the schools, and we did so. Mr. Clarke, if there has been any discourtesy to you or to any members of the

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society, I apologize on behalf of New Zealand. With regard to education itself, as I told you, we are only here to help. 1 will make no statement to-day. I will await the report which is to come from Mr. Bird, who has been examining your schools. I only give you the assurance again that we do not want to interfere; we want to fill up the blanks and we want to improve. I think there is room for improvement in the London Missionary Society teachers, as I think they will admit themselves. We are out to help the Sainoans. I agree with what is stated —that education of a certain kind and to a certain degree will be the saving of the Samoan. We are all endeavouring to learn how far we ought to go and in what direction. I want to go away with the assurance that the London Missionary Society and the New Zealand Government are pulling together in the same boat with the same aim—that is, to uplift and help the Samoans. We now come to- 8 — Finances op Samoa. Hon. Sir James Allen : I will not waste your time, gentlemen. I will deal with the matter of the Samoan police presently. The New Zealand Government have come to a decision with regard to Samoan finances, and 1 am prepared to submit it to you to-day. We expect you to maintain, as far as you can, your own institutions. We expect you to find a certain amount of revenue for works that you ought to carry out. We are willing to help you. This is what we are willing to do: we are willing to advance capital by way of loan carrying interest and sinking fund, say, at 5 per cent, and 1 per cent, respectively, for such revenue-producing public works as may be recommended by the Administrator and approved by the New Zealand Government. These works will include such services as water, electric light, Government accommodation-houses, cool storage, drainage, &c. The New Zealand Government are also willing to advance capital by way of loan, without interest or sinking fund, for necessary public works and services which will, for the present at any rate, be non-revenue producing. I refer more particularly to roads, harbour improvements, public buildings, quarters for the staff, &c. If these loans are made from the Consolidated Fund they will stand as a debt against the Samoan Treasury for the time being. We are not proposing to charge you any interest or sinking fund on these loans made from that source for the time being; but they will remain on our books as a debit in case you become prosperous, as we hope you will, when we trust you will be good enough to restore to New Zealand that which she will have loaned to you for works which are for your benefit solely. I told you that we expect you to carry your local burdens yourselves. We are willing to provide whatever money is required for the maintenance of the Samoan Constabulary and for such development of education as may be approved by the Government. We expect you to—and hope you will — provide for your education up to a certain stage. I cannot indicate exactly the stage. When you get to the stage at which it is not a fair thing to charge you with the burden, and the New Zealand Government considers that education should be continued further, we shall be prepared to assist you. That is as far as I can go at present. With regard to the proposed expenditure mentioned on page 41, a lot of it is theoretical and problematical. I do not know where you gathered this from—probably from some officers of the Government. But nothing has been decided with regard to public works, except the water-supply. The New Zealand Government were very earnest in their desire that you should get your water-supply, and I am hoping to be able to turn the tap on before we go. Drainage we consider to be essential; and we regard it as proper that you should have safe moorings for your ships here. With regard to roads and other things, it is for you to say. All that we are concerned about is to provide you with the means, should you report to us that certain roads are requisite and that you want the money to make them. The Legislative Council. Mr. Holland : I should like to ascertain from the committee if they do not think that the Legislative Council, if wholly elected on a proportional-representation basis, would be a better proposition than that which they put forward on page 43, the whites getting their proportional representation along with the Natives ? Mr. Nelson: The Natives have a form of Legislative Council in their House of Faipules, where they deal solely with Native affairs. Hon. Sir James Allen: With regard to the Legislative Council, I agree entirely wilh the principle that-there should be no taxation without representation. But we cannot always carry out our principles. We have just passed through the Cook Islands, where the nominative system with respect to. their Island Councils has been in force for many years. I am very glad to say that as a result of our visit the Arikis have agreed to the election of a white man to the Island Council at Rarotonga. So you see we are endeavouring as we can to provide for the elective principle, and we will do it here as soon as you are ready. But Ido not think you are ready for it at the present moment when we are instituting Civil Government. I do not know what the constituency would be. We have not yet settled down after the war, and until we have settled down and know exactly who the whites are and what they are, and who the half-castes are and what they are, it is not safe, in my opinion, to provide for the election of members of the Legislative Council. I hope the time will shortly come when it will be possible to do so. Somebody has communicated with me regarding the representation of planters. I left the question over when I was dealing with the subject of labour. The election of two planters on the Administrator's Council has been suggested. I have no doubt the Administrator would be very glad indeed to have a planter on his Council. I cannot say who the white planters are that are available; but the Administrator is here and he knows now what I say. There is room still for another member on the Legislative Council, and if it is not opportune at the present time to appoint a planter, I feel sure that as more white people come into Western Samoa and become available for appointment, such an appointment will be favourably considered.

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Cost op Samoan Constabulary. Mr. Holland : 1 should like some information from the Committee as to the position here immediately prior to the coming of the Constabulary—l mean, with regard to the occupying Force. Mr. Nelson : The garrison was here before : the Constabulary relieved the garrison. The garrison was here as a military force during the war. When the war terminated we thought that when the garrison left that would be a sign that the war was over, and we got the Constabulary, which was supposed to be the first act in the Civil administration. Mr. Holland ; Was there any trouble with the occupying Force that led to its being taken away ? Hon. Sir James Allen : I will answer that. Mr. Holland : I should like to get the information from the local people. Hon. Sir James Allen : The reason why they were changed is in my mind and nobody else's. Mr. Nelson: Do you mean trouble between the occupying Force and the population here? Mr. Holland : Generally speaking. Mr. Nelson : There was no trouble. Mr. Holland : You say in the pamphlet that you were practically left to the newspapers of New Zealand to find out that it was originally intended to send Constabulary here. Did you have no official information whatever?— No. As far as I can gather from the committee, there was nobody who stated that he had any official information; the community here did not receive any information as to the Constabulary before the reports were published in the New Zealand papers. What is the work that the Constabulary are doing here? I understand you have over fifty?— That is more than I can tell you. You state in the pamphlet that there are forty-eight constables, five sergeants, and four officers —fifty-seven altogether?— They are here all right, but what they are doing I cannot say. Are they on active service?—We see them occasionally moving around. They are a very nice body of men —very nice men; but what these fifty do I cannot say. 1 think one of them called on me one day about some benzine theft. Another fellow came upstairs to my private rooms, and I had occasion to order him out. Those are the only times I have had anything to do with them. What did you order him out for?— Because he had no right to come to my private rooms. Was he on any police business? Why was the policeman in your rooms?—He came up, and he said that we should not talk too loudly, or something of that sort. I asked, " Have you a warrant to come in here? " He replied, " No," and then I said " Please leave." In the opinion of your committee, are there reasons in Samoa at the present time sufficient to warrant the expenditure of £30,000 a year on keeping a Constabulary here? —It is distinctly stated in the article that we do not think the position warrants this expenditure. Hon. Sir James Allen : First of all, there is one statement here that I challenge—£3o,ooo a year. Secondly, I want to know why this was inserted when you members of the committee had full knowledge that the New Zealand Government were bearing the whole cost. And you must have known it for some time. As to the duties that the Constabulary are doing, it is obvious to most people that there are very many duties they have to take up. They have very many duties as conservers of the peace here. The reason why they were sent was that we wanted to indicate to you Samoans the replacement of military administration by Civil administration. This was the first step we could take, and I thought you would take it as an indication in the New Zealand mind that we wanted to get rid of the military as soon as we could. There was no other reason for withdrawing the military. The Constabulary are a specially-selected body of men. I think they are well officered. I think they are a credit to the place. And I want to say this to you : that though you may not see good reasons for the sending of these police to Samoa, the New Zealand Government do see good reasons, which I am not prepared at the present moment to disclose. We have good reasons for sending them. They are not here permanently. They are under engagement for a certain time, and it is not the intention of the Government to keep them here for all time. They will gradually be replaced, I trust, by further Samoan police under competent officers —Samoan if we can get them, white if we cannot. Mr. C. V. Allom : I should like to explain that until the public meeting had been held and the committee" appointed we had not heard there was likely to be any alteration with regard to the payment of the police, or that they were likely to be sent away, or anything at all about them. We knew nothing except what we had seen in the papers. Hon. Sir James Allen: Those who say that they did not know the Constabulary were to be paid for by New Zealand —I must ask them whether they read the Samoa Tim,es. Perhaps they do not. Mr. Dobbte : They do. Hon. Sir James Allen : On the 20th of December of last year the editor of the Samoa Times had a subnote attached to an article on the Samoan Constabulary, and these are the final words : " The practical position is, therefore, that New Zealand will foot the bill." Mr. Allom : That is with regard to any loss, any deficiency Hon. Sir James Allen : Oh, no. Tarn sorry if you did not know, but Ido not think it is our fault if you did not. I am sorry if there has'been any misunderstanding. Anyhow, you have no misunderstanding now : New Zealand pays for the Samoan Constabulary. Mr. Holland: That does not dis»©se of flic answer to my question, that they did not know officially of the coming of the Constabulary. Hon. Sir James Allen: No, and for a very good reason: because it was not policy to disclose that they were coming until the military were removed.

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The Liquor Question. Mr. J. R. Hamilton : 1 should like to know how long liquor had been available in Samoa up to the time it was prohibited. Rev. Mr. Sibree : There is no one here old enough to say. Mr. Hamilton: How long is it that licenses have been issued to sell liquor in Samoa? Mr. Nelson : As far back as I can remember. Hon. Sir James Allen : This and the labour question are probably the two questions you are most concerned with at the present time. I can give you a perfectly straight and uncompromising answer with regard to liquor. The matter was considered by the National Government before it was dissolved, and it resolved that prohibition ought to prevail amongst the whites if it is to prevail amongst the Natives in Samoa. That was subsequently confirmed by the Reform Government, of which the Right Hon. Mr. Massey is the leader. Now 1 am not going away from here without trying to induce you to see that the New Zealand Government acted rightly. The Peace Treaty has embodied in it the Covenant of the League of Nations, and in Article 22 there are these words: "To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them, and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization, and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant." The article goes on to say that these islands are to be under the Mandatory of certain nations contiguous to them; and, as you know, Samoa has been allotted to us. The article says, " There are territories, such as South-west Africa and certain of the South Pacific islands, which, owing to the sparseuess of their population, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilization, or their geographical contiguity to the territory of the Mandatory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the laws of the Mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population." Now, what are "the safeguards above mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population"? "The prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic, and the liquor traffic. ... In every case of mandate, the Mandatory shall render to the Council an annual report in reference to the territory committed to its charge. . . . The degrees of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council. ... A permanent Commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the Mandatories and to advise the Council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates." Those are the instructions to New Zealand as embodied in the Covenant of the League of Nations. Under this Mandatory we are taking over these islands and the 30,000 Samoans who live here. They must be prohibited from the supply of liquor. Gentlemen, Ido not see how it is possible to prevent liquor reaching these Natives if we allow it to come into the country for the use of the whites. We have had experience in our own islands —in the Cook Group—and we know that the liquor does reach them. I know that the liquor reaches them in Samoa. It would not be consistent with our trust, therefore,, if we did not do all that we possibly could to prevent liquor reaching the Samoan Native. There is another reason why I think the is sound. You are living here, more or less a handful of whites among some thirty thousand Samoans —a proud, dignified race. If we are to establish at the commencement of our Civil administration a discrimination between white and Native, what is it going to lead to? I see only one conclusion that we can come to —that ultimately the Samoan will say, "Why should I be treated in respect of this liquor question in a different way from the whites? Am I any worse than the whites? Am I not to be trusted as well as the whites?" The discrimination would undoubtedly lead to difficulties. Those difficulties the Government of New Zealand must do all they can to avoid; and that is another reason why this step has been taken. Now, gentlemen, you know my answer. We have prohibited the importation of liquor into Samoa. We have not yet taken the final step, stopping its consumption. Provision will be made for liquor to be obtained for medicinal purposes where the doctor orders it. Provision will be made for its being obtained for sacramental purposes, and for industrial purposes if they require it, as well as scientific purposes. That, I think, answers a good deal of what you state in this article in your pamphlet with regard to the necessity for liquor in a climate such as this is. Any way, there is the decision. Now, I am going to ask you this, as white men like myself : I am not a total abstainer, but I give you the lead and I ask you to follow. We whites have seen something of the sacrifices that have been made during the last five years by men who have gone to fight for our freedom at the front. A huge sacrifice has been made. What have we done who starred at home? We may have sacrificed some of our property, some of our means. It is paltry as compared with what some of the men sacrificed who went to the front. Now we have an opportunity to do something by way of sacrifice —give up some little luxury and pleasure to help the free and dignified race of Samoans. Will you gentlemen, therefore, join in agreeing to what the Government have done? I understand that you do not like to be deprived of your freedom; nor do I. At the same time, it may go a long wav to raise you in your own estimation. I believe it will go a long way to raise you in the estimation of the Samoan Natives —it certainly will in the estimation .of New Zealand —if you make the sacrifice willingly. Give up that which, after all, is only a luxury to you —because if you require it for medicinal purposes you will get it; give up this luxury, and T venture to say that in the years to come you will rejoice that you have made one sacrifice, at any rate, in the interests of a great people.

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Status op German Property. Hon. Sir James Allen: The only statement 1 can make with regard to this to-day is that "t !? An° lrea 3', the l Ge ™ M property which belonged to the German Government passes ovei to the Allies and the Mandatory without any compensation. The properties which belong to German residents we are entitled to purchase. Until we have the Order in Council I am unable to give you any information as to what we shall do, but in all probability the German properties m Samoa will be taken over at a valuation. A valuation will have to be made by tne New Zealand Government. I cannot give you any definite statement about the matter to-day further than that. Flag-raising Day. Horn Sir James Allen : With regard to this last subject in the pamphlet, I should like to see tne British Ensign hoisted here once a year, but it, is a matter for the Administrator, and 1 leave it to him. Suggestion regarding the Kaiser. Hon. Sir James Allen : A letter has been circulated throughout this district, and circulated, 1 believe, outside the shores of Samoa, a copy of which came into my hands yesterday. It is written by one of your residents who recently came back here. Ido not went to advertise it, so 1 will not mention who the writer is. But, if there comes into your hands some correspondence which suggests that the Kaiser should be brought to Samoa and that Samoa should be handed over to him —well, gentlemen, you will treat it as I do, with a smile. But that is being •solemnly circulated throughout the community. The only danger is that it may get into the hands of the Samoans and may create some disturbance. I ask you, therefore, to join with me in giving an assurance to the Natives that, whatever this writer may say, his suggestion is not seriously considered; that the Allies, who fought and won, are not going to give up either the fruits of their victory or the trust that is reposed in them with respect to the Samoan Natives. Repatriation op Germans. Mr. J. Helg (Swiss Consul) : There are many Germans residing here in Samoa yet; they ask if they could go back to their own country. Hon. Sir James Allen : Any German that wants to go back to his home country may do so, and we will make arrangements for his passage as soon as we can. The meeting concluded with the singing of the National Anthem. VISIT TO LONDON MISSIONARY SOCIETY'S TRAINING COLLEGE AT MALUA. The Hon. Sir James Allen, accompanied by a representative number of members of the Legislature and other officials, paid a visit to the Training College conducted by the London Missionary Society at Malua immediately after the meeting with the Citizens' Committee. After lunch a meeting was held in the Jubilee Hall, when there were present about four hundred Samoan pastors, students, and scholars. An address of welcome was delivered by the Rev. A. Hough, Missionary in Charge, and was acknowledged by Sir James Allen on behalf of the Parliamentary Party. After a speech by a Samoan pastor and a Samoan hymn sung by the congregation, the Rev. J. W. Sibee moved a vote of thanks, and in doing so said that the mission and the scholars took great encouragement from the kind interest which the members of the Parliamentary Party had shown in Samoan affairs since their arrival. He could assure them that any criticism which they had heard either of the New Zealand Government or of the Samoan Administration was due to a want of knowledge. However, they took the visit and the gathering there that day as a happy augury for the future. It emphasized that New Zealand, in taking over the Mandatory power with respect to Samoa, had done so primarly in the interests of the Samoans themselves. They sincerely thanked the Minister for his encouraging words, and they could assure him they should look forward with great satisfaction to the carrying-out, as they knew they would be carried out, of the Government's promises to assist and promote education in Western Samoa. The Rev. W. E. Clarke, in seconding the motion of thanks, referred to the pamphlet which had been discussed earlier in the day at the citizen's meeting, and said that if there was anything that, was critical or querulous in the paper prepared by T him on behalf of the Citizens Committee, he was sure the Parliamentary Party would pardon it, and understand that it, arose out of their great anxiety that the Samoan people, whom they had lived with so many years and learned to love as their own children, should receive every consideration and every assistance in this time of crisis. The Minister at the morning meeting had offered them a most gracious apology because of the lack of consideration and courtesy of which complaint had been made, but he wished to say he was sure that in reality the apology was due from them and not from the Minister. They reciprocated to the uttermost the Minister's kindly assurances of assistance. They would welcome all the Government did in regard to education and should not regard it in any way as an interference with the work of the London Missionary Society. FAREWELL ADDRESS BY FAIPULES OF WESTERN SAMOA. To the Right Hon. the Prime Minister of New Zealand, and to other members of the Cabinet remaining in New Zealand. Salutations ! Our cordial greetings to you ! We, the Faipules of Western Samoa, are honoured and proud to receive in our midst the Hon. Sir James Allen, K.C.B. (Minister of External Affairs), and the Parliamentary Party appointed to visit our islands with your earnest desire. We are grateful that the voyage has been safely and successfully accomplished.

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The Hon. Sir James Allen has kindly conveyed to us the greetings and good wishes both of the Prime Minister and of the other members of the Cabinet. That is why we address to you this letter, which we hand personally to Sir James Allen to deliver to you upon his arrival, and which we give in trust to him with our sincere affection and the fervent hope that it may be as a bond of good fellowship between us, so that there shall come the result that we shall remain for all time loyally joined in the truest friendship. This gathering has the semblance of the meeting of the father with his children. Many good words were spoken and considered in our meeting, but all ended with the foundation word of Nevertheless one matter fills our heart with sorrow : it is that this our meeting is but as a passing reflection. It is like as a man who gazes upon a mirror before him —he sees the likeness in the glass, but when he departs everything vanishes and is again unseen, and almost forgotten. We have a thousand regrets that the members of the Parliamentary Party may not remain and continue their meeting with the Faipules of Western Samoa for the whole of the circling year. Then indeed would the New Zealand Parliament understand fully our conditions and Samoa, and would become acquainted with the details of Samoan affairs and customs, and would be enabled to control these lands accordingly, and to base their protection upon that knowledge. We earnestly trust that the blessing of the Almighty may rest upon your lands and upon these lands, and that both you and ourselves shall be happy. Soifua-' [May you live long.] (Signed) A kino, Chairman, Toelupe, Councillor, Matupo, Councillor, T. Laupu'e, Secretary, Representing the Faipules [Councillors] of Western Samoa. Hon. Sir James Allen, in thanking the Faipules for their kindly greetings and good wishes, said he was sure the visit of the New Zealand Parliamentary Party would be productive of nothing but good and would lead to a much better understanding between New Zealand and Samoa. It would give him much pleasure to convey the message of good will from the Faipules of Western Samoa to the Right Hon. the Prime Minister and the members of his Government.

Savaii, 11th March, 1920. MEETING WITH THE FAIPULES. Present: The Hon. Sir James Allen and members of the Parliamentary Party, Faipules, Mr. Williams (Deputy Administrator at Savaii), and Sua (the official interpreter). The meeting took place in the village of Fagamalo. There were some twenty-five Faipules present, and they chose as their speaker the oldest man amongst them. The Chief who had been selected as spokesman welcomed the party. Since they had heard that they were to be governed by New Zealand under the rule of King George V the Faipules of Savaii had been very desirous of meeting the representatives of the Government, and they felt very thankful to God Almighty that the opportunity had now been given them. They looked upon their eminent visitor as their father, as far as the Government was concerned, and hoped that the meeting would prove faithful in the interests of the people of the island. They trusted that the new Government would stand for an improvement in the conditions of the islanders and would protect them. When they learned that the League of Nations had appointed Great Britain to rule Samoa through New Zealand they were very pleased, for they were certain that it was a Government that loved the people and would protect them. Prior to the war they had been under German rule and had never been sure that any improvements would be effected for them. They were thankful that, they were under the Government of Great Britain and were going to serve her. There were two matters that they wished to bring forward. They desired that a wireless station should be erected on Savaii so that they might have an easier means of communication with Apia. At present it was exceedingly difficult communicating with the island of Upolu : messages had to be sent by boat or motor-launch, a dangerous and tedious method. They also requested that the Government should provide them with doctors on Savaii. At present they had no doctor on the island, and sick people who required medical treatment had to journey to Apia either in a row-boat or in a motor-launch. Row-boats were not so numerous as formerly, and in anycase the trip was an expensive one. They asked particularly for a doctor for the village of Fagamalo. In conclusion the speaker wished the party a safe and pleasant journey back to New Zealand. The Hon. Sir James Allen, in reply, thanked the Faipules for their kindly welcome. At the same time he conveyed to them greetings from the representatives in New Zealand of the King (the Governor-General) and from Mr. Massey (the Prime Minister). The visitors had come to Samoa at the request of the Prime Minister of New Zealand. The Dominion having taken the responsibility for the care of these islands, it was thought to be only right that they should come to see for themselves what the islands were like, to make the acquaintance of their people and to ascertain their requirements. They believed that the terms of the great, Peace Treaty were wise in that as a result the League of Nations had allotted Samoa to the care of New Zealand. The representatives of the New Zealand Parliament had come to tell them that, whatever their difficulties might be there was always behind the Samoans not only the Government, and King George and his Government, but also the people of New Zealand. He had no doubt but that in

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the future members of the New Zealand Parliament would again visit them. In presenting the kava-roots the speaker had said that they represented peace and love. They had been accepted as such, and lie hoped that peace would be maintained for all time They had spoken of New Zealand being in the place of a parent to them. They might well do so, for that country had Tuf M° ng r tinW pa>St llad tlle care of tlleir brethren, tlie Maoris, men of the same race as themselves, the New-Zealanders had the highest respect and regard for the Maoris, and had that same respect and regard for the Samoans, which he hoped would increase as the years went by. They asked for the protection of New Zealand. On behalf of the Dominion he assured them that New Zealand would grant them that protection not only through her own strength but also through the power and might of King George and the whole of the British Empire. Great Britain and her representatives had always been noted for their justice towards the people of other nations, and they might rely upon it that justice would be done to the Samoans also, and that their Native laws and customs would be preserved to them unless in the course of time it was mutually agreed that they should be altered. During the Great War that had just ended the British had taken perhaps a larger part than any other nation : peace had now been secured, and he hoped it would be lasting for all time. We had fought not because we loved war, but because of our obligations to other nations, and because of our desire to maintain for all nations peace and freedom. Now that the war was over we wanted to do all we could to develop the countries in which we were living and to make them happy places to live in. The number of people throughout the world was increasing, and those who held rich lands had their responsibilities in meeting the needs of others. He therefore invited them to cultivate their island as far as possible, not only to supply their own wants but to help their brethren in other parts of the world to live. With regard to the request for a wireless station the Government intended to establish better communication at a very early date. They were examining into the possibilities of a wireless telephone, and a wireless _ expert was at that very moment looking round the island to ascertain the best place for erecting a station. Regarding the request for doctors, the Minister said there needs for medical care were recognized and would be provided for. He believed that steps had already been taken to send more than one doctor, and a dispensary had already been erected on the other side of the island. Sir James concluded by again thanking the Faipules for the cordial welcome extended to the visitors. The party would take back with them to New Zealand pleasant memories of their visit to Savaii.

APPENDIX. COOK ISLANDS. Extracts from Address delivered on s.s. " Mokoia " by the Resident Commissioner, Mr. F. W. Platts, 20th February, 1920. Land-tenure. —Before annexation by Great Britain the system of land-tenure in these islands was very similar to the feudal system in England in the time of the Normans. The Arikis were the lords of all the land, which was held in fief from them by the lesser nobles, the Mataiapos and the Rangatiras, the labour being performed by the serfs. But all this had been swept away. The Arikis put down the names of the people entitled to the different blocks of land, and the Native Land Court had now individualized the titles to all the lands in at least two of the islands, Rarotonga and Aitutaki, and partly at Mauke and Atiu. In the course of time this work would be completed in all the islands of the Group. European, Settlement and its Difficulties. —There were some eighteen or twenty European settlers in Rarotonga who held land from the Natives on lease. The Natives were forbidden to alienate their lands, but might lease them, subject to the approval of the Native Land Court, up to a period of sixty years. The Natives were no longer willing to lease their land to Europeans, for they at length realized that it was restricted in area. Recently the Commissioner had circularized the southern islands of the Group asking what lands were available for leasing to Europeans, and. the reply was " Nil." It took a coconut plantation ten years to come into full bearing, and during that time the planter had to maintain himself. He therefore required capital. It was impossible to carry on the plantations without Native labour, for Europeans found work in this climate very trying. The best labourers were the Mangaians, who received from £2 10s. to £3 a month for their services. Freezer. —The establishment of a freezer at Rarotonga had done much to mitigate the hardships of life on that island. Before its introduction the European residents had been mainly dependent upon tinned foods for general supplies. Now they were able to obtain fresh meat and butter regularly. The Administration imported supplies monthly from New Zealand and retailed them at a reasonable rate to the residents. Ice was also supplied. Sanatorium. —Consumption was prevalent amongst the islanders, They themselves did not recognize its danger. For the purpose of segregating those suffering from this dread complaint a sanatorium was to be erected at Rarotonga. Education. —The value and necessity of education were very fully recognized by the Administration. There were eight schools in the Group, with thirty-two teachers and 1,100 children. Tire last school opened was at Mangai. There was great trouble in obtaining teachers, for a successful teacher, must have something of the spirit of the missionary in him. The Natives themselves were keenly interested in education, and the change it had wrought amongst them was already strongly marked. At the schools the children were not only educated in the ordinary

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way, but were also taught hygiene, and this had a great effect for good on themselves and the families they belonged to. Scholarships : Last year four of the brightest boys had been sent to St. Stephen's College at Auckland. Also five boys had been sent last year to Wellington to be taught trades. This year more boys were being sent to the college. The only artisans at the islands were French Tahitians, to whom the Rarotongaiis object. The boys were under bond to return to the islands on the expiry of their apprenticeship. The Administration helped the parents in poor circumstances by paying for outfits and for fares to Wellington. The money the lads earn was generally sufficient to pay for their keep whilst away from home. They were under the control of the Young Men's Christian Association, at whose rooms they boarded. Five more boys were going up this year. Economic Help to the Natives.—The Administration had also purchased orange-trees and distributed them amongst the Natives at half-price. After several attempts the panama-hat plant had been successfully introduced by the Administration. Whaling was an industry that would repay careful attention, for whales were very plentiful about the islands. Steps were being taken to send some of the Natives to the Queen Charlotte Sound fisheries to learn the most up-to-date methods of whale-fishing. Bank for the Islands. —There was great necessity for a banking institution of some kind in the islands. Both the Bank of New Zealand and the National Bank had been asked to open a branch there, but without success. Steps were now being taken to establish a rural bank. Arrangements for its formation had already been completed. In fact, a request had been made for two rural banks. The capital of each bank would be £1,000. It was considered that such an institution would be a great boon, as it, would enable the Natives to obtain advances to buy seed,\&c, and to clear and plant their lands. Money would be advanced on the security of chattels and crops, but the principal form of security would be the personal bond of the borrower and two of his friends. Difficulties of Administration. —Lack of regular communication between the different islands was very troublesome and' did not make for good administration. Had it not, been for the courtesy of the London Missionary Society in allowing him to travel .by their steamer the Commissioner and other officials would not have been able to get round the Group. There were but three trading schooners in the islands, all privately owned and under no control whatever as to sailings or freights. An independent schooner was badly needed that would visit each island in turn at regular intervals. It would be invaluable to officials as well as to the Natives. THE MOSQUITO AND OTHER PESTS IN RELATION TO DISEASE IN THE TROPICS. Extracts prom Address delivered by Dr. H. Chesson, on s.s. " Mokoia," 22nd February, 1920. Tropical diseases are many, but for the object of the present lecture it is proposed to deal only with those with which we are specially concerned on this trip as bearing on practical administration of public health in the South Pacific islands. The diseases which will be referred to are Filariasis and Elephantiasis, Ankylostomiasis (hook-worm disease), Leprosy, Trachoma, Yaws, &c. Fortunately malaria is not common in our islands, though it occurs in islands farther north and west. Cases of malaria do exist, but probably it will be found that in most instances they have contracted the infection in other countries. But should the particular mosquito that spreads this disease be imported, this is a danger we may have to face. The, Mosquito. —lnsects play an important part in the propagation of tropical diseases, especially the mosquito, which is a grave danger to health in both European and Native. There are several varieties of this insect, the principal of which from our point of view are — (1.) The Anopheles, which carries the parasite producing malaria, which in the mosquito undergoes certain phases of its life-cycle; (2.) The various varieties of Culex, which serve as hosts and carry the filaria worm; and (3.) The Stegomya, which carries the yellow-fever organism and also filaria. Each variety has its own peculiarities, but they all have the same general practical characteristics —namely, they all breed in stagnant water, they do not travel great distances though they spread in undergrowth, and they are all potential sources of danger to humans. The female mosquito lays its eggs in stagnant water, swamps, pools, puddles, flower-pots, vases, or anywhere where water collects. The next stage is the larval state, and in all varieties the larvte float just beneath the slirface of the water with the extremity of the breathing-apparatus just afloat. In this condition it requires air, as also in the pupa stage, in which it also floats just beneath the surface and breathes through its tubes. A thin film of oil on the surface prevents the insects in these stages from breathing, and death ensues. This, therefore, is one method of dealing with the pest, but it is not quite reliable, as the larvee may be protected by growths of weed preventing the oil from covering the spot where they rest, or wind may prevent the oil spreading; also, the oil requires to be sprayed over the surface every week or thereabouts. The only effective method, therefore, is to efficiently drain all swamps, waterholes, &0., in the neighbourhood of habitations; to clear all undergrowth, leaving only scattered clumps of trees for shade purposes; and to protect all habitations by means of wire screens, seeing that all openings—not only doors and windows —are protected. At, Klang and Port Swettenham, in the Malay States, anti-mosquito measures reduced the cases of malaria admitted to hospitals from 610 in 1901 to 23 in 1905, while cases in the surrounding districts where no anti-mosquito measures were taken were 197 in 1901 and 353 in 1905. It is obviously our duty to take similar steps in the islands under our care, for, though practically no malaria exists there, there are other diseases due to the mosquito which necessitates the destruction of the pest so that they may at least be reduced to a minimum.

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Filariasis : This mosquito-borne disease is the one which comes most prominently under our nonce in the islands of the South Pacific, and is due to the filaria parasite, a worm-like organism which infests the blood-vessels. This disease is exceedingly prevalent in these islands, and produces conditions ranging from general indisposition of a vague character to the definite condition known as elephantiasis. Men and women may frequently be seen with lower limbs utterly shapeless and somewhat resembling an elephant's foot, the foot having almost disappeared in a mass of dropsical tissue. Operation is the only means of affording relief, but the swelling may form in other parts. The mosquito is entirely responsible for this condition. The parasites in those affected with the disease, even though they do not show any symptoms, are found in huge numbers in the bloodvessels of the skin. The mosquito sucks up this blood, and the parasites penetrating the stomachwalls of the mosquito undergo development in its tissues, and are exuded through its proboscis when it bites its human victim, thus injecting the parasites into a fresh subject. Yellow Fever is not known at present in these islands, but the variety of mosquito which is known to make a habit of carrying this disease, when it gets the chance, is found in large numbers, so that should a case be imported there is every prospect of its spreading. Dengue, on the other hand, is an acute febrile disease very common in the islands, and this is also a mosquito-borne disease. The mosquito, therefore, forms a very important factor in tropical hygiene. The Fly. —There are a large number of varieties of flies found in these islands, and they are one of the greatest pests of these parts and are responsible for carrying many diseases. The fly is particularly prone to settle on ulcerating sores, faecal matter, and decomposing material of every description. It is responsible for carrying trachoma, a very troublesome disease of the eyelids, yaws, and various other diseases, including the Ankylostoma duodenalis (hookworm). Hookworm. —This is a small intestinal parasite whose habitat is the upper bowel. It is a smalNworm with a mouth armed with hook-like teeth, which it fastens into the mucous lining of the bowel, where it firmly anchors itself. It sucks blood, with which it is very wasteful, only extracting the portion that it requires for its sustenance and passing the remainder into the bowel. It produces anaemia of a very severe type, which can only be cured by killing the worm. There is a male and a female worm. The female discharges eggs wholesale. These eggs are passed into the bowel and thus escape from the body. The eggs mature in the f.iecai matter and the embryo passes into the earth where the faecal matter is deposited. The earth itself becomes infected and the infected earth may pass into streams. Muddy water, therefore, is frequently found to contain the embryo hookworm, and it gains access to the body by the drinking of muddy water, by eating earth-soiled articles of food, or the contamination of food through the hands of dirty cooks, or by flies which, alighting on worm-infected human excreta, carry the parasite to food. Another means by which the hookworm gains access to the body is through the skin, especially through the soft tender skin between the toes and fingers. It is necessary, therefore, when working on the land in the tropics to protect the hands, and no one should ever go barefooted in these countries. Children also have a habit of eating earth, and this, of course, is obviously a very dangerous practice. From these facts it is obvious that the disposal of faecal matter is one of importance. The Natives of these islands are very careless with regard to this matter and freely soil the earth in the neighbourhood of their settlements with their deposits. It is necessary that they should be educated in the matter of the proper disposal of faecal matter, and be taught the use of properly constructed fly- and mosquito-protected privies. Naturally the same applies to the white settlements. Wherever possible underground sewerage is desirable, and also a clean, pure water-supply. Yaws (known in Tonga as " tona," in Samoa as " falda Zona." —This disease is very common amongst the Natives, and in its secondary stage produces sores scattered over the body. In some respects it resembles syphilis, and has been looked upon as being a form a syphilis, but it is now generally recognised that it is a separate disease though responding to similar treatment. It is caused by close contact, or carried by flies or other insects. Consumption. —This disease is obviously on the increase, and is due in large measure to the adoption of European methods of dress and housing. The Native in his normal state does not wear clothes other than a loin cloth. Perspiration evaporates as soon as it is formed and he suffers no chill. When, however, he gets into European clothes, to which he is not accustomed, these become saturated with perspiration, remain wet, and he contracts a chill. Also his secretions, instead of being got rid of, are held in contact with his body. Clothing for the Native is not necessary in these warm latitudes, and he is far better without it. He has also adopted European materials in the construction of his houses without at the same time adopting the European model of modern times which allows for efficient and free ventilation. In the ordinary way a Native hut if not open at the sides is walled with reeds through which the air freely passes. In many cases he has built similarly shaped houses with impervious wooden wallsand an iron roof. He does not get the ventilation to which he is normally accustomed. The Native also is inclined to crowd in the houses, and conditions of crowding and ill ventilation predispose to and facilite the spread of consumption. The Native has not learned the dangers also of dealing with his expectoration, and freely spits whenever it is convenient to do so. This is a disease, therefore, to which we shall need to give special attention and which will probably require sanatorium facilities. . . , . . . Leprosy —There are a considerable number of leprosy cases m these islands, but it is not, as common'as generally believed. There are cases in Tonga, and it also exists in Samoa. There are two forms of leprosy, the anaesthetic and the nodular. These may, however, be combined. Leprosy is due to a minute rod-like organism very similar in appearance to the_ tuberculosis bacillus with which it has many points in common. Under the miscroscope it is impossible to

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distinguish them individually. The only difference under the microscope is that the tubercle bacillus chiefly found free, whereas the leprosy bacillus is principally found in cells. The organism is in practically all cases found in the nasal secretions and also in the nodules. The disease is probably carried from one to another by close contact, and it is possible that it may be carried by insects. The infectivity of the disease fortunately does not seem to be very high. Nevertheless it is essential that these cases should be isolated. Summary. —hi order to cope with the various diseases referred to, and the many other diseases found in the islands, it is necessary that a very vigorous campaign should be carried out especially against the mosquito, including— (1.) The drainage of swamps, pools, and places where stagnant water accumulates, especially in the neighbourhood of settlements; (2.) The cleaning-up of watercourses. (3.) Oil treatment of all places found to be impracticable of drainage, and the cleaning of weeds therefrom; (4.) The clearing of thick undergrowth and vegitation generally from the neighbourhood of all settlements or residences; (5.) The protection of all residences from mosquitos and flies by proper construction and wire netting; (6.) Proper disposal of all garbage; (7.) Provision of sewerage of all settlements, where practicable, and the institution of proper means of disposal of excrement where drainage is not practicable; (8.) Provision of sufficient good water for domestic purposes, and the protection of tanks from mosquitos; (9.) Construction of houses so that adequate protection is afforded from the heat and free means of ventilation, electric lighting, and fans.

WESTERN SAMOA. Extracts from Addresses delivered on s.s. " Mokoia," Ist and 3rd March, 1920, by Colonel R. W. Tate, Administrator of Samoa. The lecturer stated that Samoa was divided into two portions, Western Samoa and American Samoa. Western Samoa consisted of four islands, the two principal being Upolu and Savaii. American Samoa consisted of Tutuila and some smaller islands. The population of Western Samoa, about a year ago, consisted of 30,636 native Sainoans, 1,166 indentured labourers, and 1,660 whites and half-castes. Upolu was the more important of the two large islands, the greater number of people living there. There were some roads, which the lecturer indicated on a map; otherwise communication was by boat. To make a road round the island of Upolu was a big task, which, however, should be carried out. It, would be about 120 miles round. There was in Apia a telephone system which extended in two directions. As to area, there were 275,000 acres in Upolu and 45,000 in Savaii. Much of the land had been alienated. In Upolu 88,500 acres had been alienated, leaving 186,500 acres in the hands of the Natives. In Savaai 400,000 acres remained in the Natives' hands, 50,000 acres having been alienated. Of the alienated land the German firm known as the D.H. and P.G. owned 56,000 acres in Upolu and 20,000 in Savaai. Other Germans owned 16,000 acres in Upolu and 18,000 in Savaii. British and neutral people held 16,500 in Upolu and 12,500 in Savaii. All the best portions of Upolu had been acquired by the German firm mentioned. Of the area alienated some 18,000 acres had been cultivated. The Native cultivations were all round the coast. The land was rich brown soil, such as the party had seen at Rarotonga, but it was so intermixed with volcanic rock that he, Colonel Tate, had not seen an acre which one could plough or work a cultivator upon. The products of Samoa were mainly copra, cocoa, and rubber. In the previous year the export of these products had been 16,356 tons of copra, 820 tons of cocoa, and rubber nil. The export of copra was higher in that year than it had been before, but in consequence of the shortage of labour caused by the repatriation of the labourers the production of cocoa and rubber had dropped. In 1918 Samoa had imported, from Australia goods to the value of £108,000 and exported to the Commonwealth goods valued at £35,000. From New Zealand the imports had been £82,000 and the exports £16,000. From America the imports had been £112,000, while the exports had amounted to £253,000. Practically all the copra went to America. The revenue of the country for 1918-19 was £87,363, and the estimated revenue for 1919-20 was £80,215. The expenditure, including public works*out of revenue, absorbed all the revenue. The land belonging to the German firm was held by New Zealand. A Military Liquidator had possession of it and was working it. A decision would no doubt be come to by the Government as to whether they would take this laud from the Germans. New Zealand had the right under the Peace Treaty to take German property, give the German owners a certificate for the German Government to pay upon on account of indemnity, and-send them back to Germany with it. New Zealand was now holding, and, so far as he knew, would take the 76,000 acres belonging to the German firm. Mr. Lee : What is the approximate value of it? Colonel Tate said that, roughly speaking, he would estimate it at £1,000,000. This German property was mostly under coconut. At Mulifanua they had one of the best plantations in the world :it consisted of 4,000 acres of coconut and carried besides 4,000 cattle. The copra was dried in kilns, and the work of the firm was done in a very big way. If the property was not kept cultivated it would go back to nature. Cocoa was mostly grown by small individual planters, nearly all Germans. The labour on the cocoa-plantations was Chinese, who were indentured.

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Indentured labour consisted of two classes —the Solomon-Islanders, employed by the D.H. and P.G., and the Chinese, employed by other persons and firms. Generally speaking the SolomonIslanders were employed for coconuts and the Chinamen for cocoa and rubber. In 1914 there were 870 Solomon-Islanders employed by the D.H. and P.G., and 1,855 Chinamen in other employ. The latest figures showed the number of Solomon-Islanders to have fallen to 485 and Chinese to 600. Some had been repatriated since these figures were compiled. To keep the plantations going the D.H. and P.G. required 770 labourers, while others needed 1,640. Other plantations, which had fallen out of cultivation and were in the Administrator's hands for liquidation, would require from 500 to 800 labourers if they were to be maintained. Thus from 2,900 to 3,200 labourers were required to maintain the plantations in good order, without providing for one acre of further development. It would thus be seen that 2,000 labourers beyond those at present engaged were needed. There was indentured labour and free labour. With respect to indentured labour, a contract was made between the labourer and the employer whereby the labourer worked for a specified term for specified wages. Provision for repatriation at the end of the term was made. The labourer might be punished by the proper Government authority for desertion : that was to say, having made the contract he must stick to it. The labourer's medical attendance was paid for by the employer. He was protected in that he had his own Consul in the country, and there was an officer specially told off for the purpose of seeing that complaints were properly dealt with. The lecturer said he had been given to understand that during the military occupation no complaint had come in from an indentured labourer which indicated any ill-treatment. The protection appeared to him to be quite complete. The complaints were almost entirely of a trivial nature. Mr. McCombs : What are the hours of work and pay? Colonel Tate said at present there were all sorts of rates of pay, because so many fresh contracts had been made during the last year and because men had become so skilled. The pay ranged from £2 10s. or £3 per month and found up to a very much larger sum. With reference to free labour, what he understood by "free labour" was where, however the contract might be made, the man was free to remain in Samoa and become a citizen of the place. In this way there would be created a citizen of a lower type than the Samoan Native, and there would also be created a citizen of a man who was not under control. The only other labour in Samoa was the native Samoan. The statement was not altogether true that the Samoan did not work, but he did not work in the way in which the Europeans understood the term. He did not work with the energy that labourers put into their work in New Zealand, but at the same time he achieved a good deal in his own way. He was not a person who simply sat in the sun and grew fat. Not only did he keep in hand the beetle, which, if unchecked, would kill all the coconuts, but he also produced a considerable proportion of the copra. In a very little time he could, by making copra, amass what was quite a large sum of money for him. As he could easily make sufficient for his wants he did not need to work for wages, hi a few isolated cases an employer might get Samoan Natives to do a copra task for him, but, it would be done more to oblige the employer than from a desire to go out as labourers. In a nutshell the position was that the Samoan was not available at present as a labourer because he already did sufficient work to keep him. going. If the growing of cocoa and rubber was to continue outside labour must be available. Samoan labour had been tried for many things, such as roadmaking and harbour-work, and it had always proved unsatisfactory. As to white labour, the members of the Parliamentary Party would satisfy themselves when they visited Samoa that it was not a white man's country. Outside labour from the Pacific had proved impracticable. Chinese labour was available. If indentured it could be controlled ; if free it could not be controlled. He did not think the introduction of Chinese labour had had a demoralizing effect upon the natives of Samoa. There was a little cross breeding between the Natives and the Chinese, but not much. A regulation had been made with the object of preventing this, but what controlled the matter mostly was the fact that the indentured labourer was not allowed off his area : further, the Samoans were very particular about their own women. In reply to a question by Mr. Holland concerning indentured Chinese labour, the Hon. Sir James Allen stated that last session the Government had undertaken not to introduce more labour than was necessary to make up about the number of men that were there. Steps had been taken to secure a few hundred labourers from China, and the position was that a new Consul for China had been appointed who was presently to go to Samoa. He had been communicated with and the Chinese Gpvernment had been communicated with. This gentleman was himself selecting the labourers to go to Samoa. In addition the Administrator had selected Captain Carter, who had been sent to China with full particulars as to the conditions. All these conditions were being'explained to the Chinese Consul, and, through him, to the labourers who were going to be brought to Samoa. Continuing, Colonel Tate said the Government of the Natives was carried out by Native officials drawn from themselves. The head of the family was known as a "Matai." Then came the officials proper, ranked in five different grades: (1) the Pulenu'u, (2) the Faamasino, (3) the Komisi, (4) the Faipule, and (5) the Fautuas. The Pulenu'u might be called the Mayor of the village, and was a very busy man. He administered everything connected with the beetle-catching. He inspected and weighed the copra. The cleanliness of the village was his business, and it was his duty also to settle small family troubles. Next in rank, came the Faamasino, the Native Judge, whose main function was to settle disputes between the villagers. The Komisi was the Native member of the Land and Titles Commission, which was a Court of very considerable importance. Tt, was the final Court in cases of dispute arising out of land-titles. The Faipule was a member of a sort of Native Parliament,

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Every year there was a fono —a conference —of the Faipules. At these fonos matters were discussed for submission to the Government, and the Government in turn submitted different matters to them for their consideration. The fono of the Faipules had no legislative powers, but considered matters and made recommendations. As the Pulenu'u exercised jurisdiction over the village, so the Faipule exercised higher jurisdiction over the district. The work of all the Native officials was very valuable. They worked very hard, and it was through them that the people of Samoa were governed. The last three grades mentioned —the Faamasino, the Komisi, and the Faipule —were appointed by the Government, and were almost invariably selected from the Pulenu'us. The appointments were genrally by promotion, one step at a time. The Fautuas were the highest Native officials. They were the Native advisers to the Administrator. They were two in number and were very important personages. The two Fautuas were Malietoa and Tuimaalealiifano. They were appointed by the Government, and came next in precedence to the Administrator. Titles of dignity and rank were conferred by the election of the family. The family picked out the best man offering—not necessarily the oldest son of the last holder —and appointed him to the title by_ a system of election. There had been very numerous cases where titles had been conferred without the knowledge of some branch of the family, and this practice became a frequent cause of squabbles. Last year the Administrator had made it a rule that notice of appointment to titles must be gazetted, and the draft rule was submitted to the Faipules for their opinion and approval. This was a typical instances of the business submitted to the Faipules. This rule had proved the means of avoiding many squabbles. The holder of a title might be deposed by his family if he did not play the game properly. Land-tenure: Alienated land was held under Court grant. The unalienated land was held by the Natives under Samoan custom. The chief held the pule (mana) which nearly always went, with one of the titles. He was a trustee, and administered the land for the benefit of the whole family. He directed the cultivation of the land and saw that all got a proper share of the food produced. This chief was obeyed by his people. The authority of the chief was a most important thing and one of the greatest factors in the government of the people; to break down his authority would be the gravest mistake. The Administration had more than once prevented considerable disturbances by throwing the responsibility for keeping order upon the chiefs themselves. Their young men would obey them. The chiefs desired peace. They controlled the people, and it was most important that their authority should be maintained. " Break down this authority at the present stage," said the Administrator, " and you would have civil war in a very short space of time." Education on the islands was not as advanced as in Rarotonga where British rule had held for some time. Village schools were conducted by the missionaries in the villages. There was also a Marist Brothers' school in Apia, where boys and girls received a reasonable education, and there were also three Government schools. More must be done to increase the educational facilities. In the Government, schools a great point was made of the teaching of English properly. Two of the Government schools were devoted to white and half-caste children, and the other one was for Natives. At the present time the islands were being administered according to the German law. This would obtain until such time as the Constitution Order was passed, when it would be replaced by British law. Mr. Young asked whether there were facilities for the Natives to have their land individualized. In reply to Colonel Tate said, No. He considered it would very inadvisable to nrovide them. The law did not permit of private individuals obtaining ownership of land now. The land could not now be alienated by the individual.

Approximate. Cost o/ Paper. —Preparation, not given ; printing (50(1 copies), £70.

Ry Authority : Marcus F. Makks, Government Printer. Wellington. —1920

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